So, uh... the gas prices

[TraderPatTX]

Man, really being an asshole, arent you?

If treating you like an adult is being an asshole, then yes. I gave you all the tools you need to succeed. The rest is up to you.

 

[sombrerosonic]

If treating you like an adult is being an asshole, then yes. I gave you all the tools you need to succeed. The rest is up to you.

I asked for evidence..... then you sent me a list, i said thanks. then you insulted me.

 

[TraderPatTX]

I mentioned it, when you pointed out that all car manufacturing requires the use of a lot of plastics. Avoiding the transition to EVs doesn't reduce our use of them, so clearly you prefer another alternative.

You mentioning it doesn't mean I support whatever you mention. That doesn't even make sense. Does public transportation contain zero plastics?

Sure, I'll argue against that since it sounds like a number pulled straight from your ass. Next you're gonna tell me that solar panels instantly barbeque any/all birds that pass over them.

Solar panels efficiency drops significantly in temperatures above 114 degrees and when they are covered in dust. Yet, almost all solar panels are installed in the hottest, dustiest parts of the country.

https://www.euronews.com/next/2022/...gher-temperatures-are-undermining-solar-power

And they don't. Which is why European leaders have been saying for months now that it'll be a bit of a spike for a winter or two, but not nearly as bad as the reactionaries are claiming.

https://www.usnews.com/news/busines...ity-bills-alarm-europe-raise-fears-for-winter

Those sanctions are working so well too. So while poor Europeans will freeze to death this winter, Russia is making money hand over fist.

https://markets.businessinsider.com...first-half-prices-europe-energy-crisis-2022-8

 

[TraderPatTX]

I asked for evidence..... then you sent me a list, i said thanks. then you insulted me.

I'm in the habit of reading comments in a snarky way since that is mostly what I receive. Sorry about that. That's on me.

 

[Xzi]

You mentioning it doesn't mean I support whatever you mention. That doesn't even make sense. Does public transportation contain zero plastics?

It would drastically reduce the amount of plastics required if not every individual felt they needed to own their own car, yes. And sure, you don't have to support a reduction in our use of plastics at all, but that would also be an admission that you don't give a shit and were just concern trolling over their use in EVs.

Solar panels efficiency drops significantly in temperatures above 114 degrees and when they are covered in dust. Yet, almost all solar panels are installed in the hottest, dustiest parts of the country.

And? Solar panels don't need to operate at 100% efficiency at all times if we have enough of them. The energy they provide is still far cheaper and still reduces our emissions a lot compared to oil/coal/natural gas.

So while poor Europeans will freeze to death this winter

That's more of a concern in countries without strong social safety nets. Most European countries will subsidize energy costs for individuals if they have to.

 

[sombrerosonic]

I'm in the habit of reading comments in a snarky way since that is mostly what I receive. Sorry about that. That's on me.

Its ok.

 

[TraderPatTX]

It would drastically reduce the amount of plastics required if not every individual felt they needed to own their own car, yes. And sure, you don't have to support a reduction in our use of plastics at all, but that would also be an admission that you don't give a shit and were just concern trolling over their use in EVs.

People are going to have to be forced to give up their cars by government. Of course, you are all for the government forcing people to give up their free-dumbs.

And? Solar panels don't need to operate at 100% efficiency at all times if we have enough of them. The energy they provide is still far cheaper and still reduces our emissions a lot compared to oil/coal/natural gas.

They don't operate at 100% efficiency when in perfect working order. Average efficiency of current panels is 15-18%. High temperatures decrease efficiency by 10-25%. Dust reduces it even further. So your solar panels will be operating at less than 10% efficiency in desert locales. That's not sustainable.

That's more of a concern in countries without strong social safety nets. Most European countries will subsidize energy costs for individuals if they have to.

Great, give government more power over people. That seems to always be the answer. What are they gonna do when factories and businesses start shutting down and people stop working and paying taxes? You gonna subsidize big business's energy costs too?

 

[Xzi]

People are going to have to be forced to give up their cars by government.

The fuck are you on about now? We have a capitalist government, they'd never even gently suggest people giving up car culture in America. They'll force a transistion to all electric vehicles out of necessity, but that may still not be enough to combat climate change.

So I was right, you don't give a shit about the amount of plastic that's required by car manufacturing. You just wanna argue for gas vehicles and against EVs. Stop with the concern troll bullshitting.

So your solar panels will be operating at less than 10% efficiency in desert locales. That's not sustainable.

Pretty damn sure using the sun for energy is indeed sustainable. Your alternative of using every last drop of finite fossil fuels before transitioning to something else, is not.

Great, give government more power over people. You gonna subsidize big business's energy costs too?

Make up your goddamn mind. Are you worried people will freeze to death, or are you worried corporations might lose a few percentage points in profit this year?

 

[SyphenFreht]

If you take out a loan for a degree that does not ensure you make enough money to pay it back, then you received a shitty degree. Blame the colleges for even offering it.

Except many kids who get roped into these degrees are purposely misled and led on, which is exactly why the loan forgiveness program is struggling to be instilled. The blame is on the colleges and the loan companies. What part of that are you not understanding or agreeing with?

You want poor minorities with no college degree to pay for the degrees of rich privileged white leftists with a master's in gender studies. Before you call me a racist, make sure you understand your position on this topic, because it is obvious that you don't.

I wasn't going to call you racist, you can do that all on your own.

However, I'm not sure minorities will be paying for these degrees. People seem to misunderstand that loan forgiveness means wiping away the debt; these companies are not getting paid if the debt is wiped.

Keystone was being built until Brandon shut it down, along with oil/gas leases on federal lands.

In July 2020 SCOTUS halted the pipelines construction and 6 months after Biden took office the pipeline developer abandoned the project after only 8% of the pipeline was finished. Blame Biden all you want, what's Trump's excuse for not signing an executive order to get the pipeline finished? He literally could've cited oil supply and demand considering the pandemic caused gas prices to skyrocket, but instead wasted his time signing permits that continuously got shot down.

 

[TraderPatTX]

The fuck are you on about now? We have a capitalist government, they'd never even gently suggest people giving up car culture in America. They'll force a transistion to all electric vehicles out of necessity, but that may still not be enough to combat climate change.

What happens when people do not buy EV's? What's gonna be the government's next step? Are they gonna send the FBI to raid houses and steal cars?

So I was right, you don't give a shit about the amount of plastic that's required by car manufacturing. You just wanna argue for gas vehicles and against EVs. Stop with the concern troll bullshitting.

You haven't been right about anything.

Pretty damn sure using the sun for energy is indeed sustainable. Your alternative of using every last drop of finite fossil fuels before transitioning to something else, is not.

If you are pretty damn sure, back it up with evidence like I did. Do you think that rare earth minerals are not finite? There's a reason why they are called rare earth minerals. Can you take a guess on why that is?

Make up your goddamn mind. Are you worried people will freeze to death, or are you worried corporations might lose a few percentage points in profit this year?

People will freeze to death because companies will shut down and they won't be able to afford the exorbitant energy rates. It looks like I'm the only one in this exchange that cares about that.

 

[Xzi]

What happens when people do not buy EV's?

At some point they'll have no other option, gas vehicles will no longer be manufactured after 2035. Always gotta drag Republicans kicking and screaming into the future, like the toddlers they are.

Do you think that rare earth minerals are not finite?

Do you believe that solar panels and wind turbines get consumed at the same rate as gasoline/natural gas?

People will freeze to death because companies will shut down and they won't be able to afford the exorbitant energy rates.

Most utility companies are publicly owned. The rest aren't in any danger of going under. Your concern trolling isn't even remotely valid in this scenario, so I'll take that as an admission you care more about corporate profit than the needs of the individual.

 

[omgcat]

It's the big scary anti-Nuclear folks. Nuclear is still the cleanest energy source we have in terms of scale.

sure, nuclear is the cleanest, but it also takes the longest (30 year average construction time per plant) and is limited to certain geographical locations (you need functional rivers so drought prone areas are out). fuck France had to turn theirs down/off because the river water got too hot a couple weeks ago.

at this point renewables + batteries are the sole functional solution to our energy problem.

 

[TraderPatTX]

At some point they'll have no other option, gas vehicles will no longer be manufactured after 2035. Always gotta drag Republicans kicking and screaming into the future, like the toddlers they are.

Cubans still drive vehicles manufactured in the 1950's. Many people here in the US still drive classic cars. Learning how to be a car mechanic is not rocket science. Checkmate.

Do you believe that solar panels and wind turbines get consumed at the same rate as gasoline/natural gas?

Solar panels and wind turbines do not use rare earth materials. Wind turbines use fiberglass. The rare earth materials are consumed from all the massive batteries that will need to be manufactured to support your green utopia and it's not a one time purchase.

Most utility companies are publicly owned. The rest aren't in any danger of going under. Your concern trolling isn't even remotely valid in this scenario, so I'll take that as an admission you care more about corporate profit than the needs of the individual.

You can take it any way you wish. It doesn't make it true. Not sure why you so pro-freezing to death, but then again, leftism has historically been a death cult everywhere it's been tried.

BTW, arguing with emotion is not effective. You should try using facts some of the time.

 

[Xzi]

Many people here in the US still drive classic cars. Learning how to be a car mechanic is not rocket science. Checkmate.

Okay...you enjoy gas that's $20/gallon at that point, and I'll pretend to feel "owned."

Solar panels and wind turbines do not use rare earth materials. Wind turbines use fiberglass. The rare earth materials are consumed from all the massive batteries that will need to be manufactured to support your green utopia and it's not a one time purchase.

My "green utopia" has a lot more lightrail/walkable cities and a lot fewer cars, EV or otherwise. So once again I'm proposing a solution while all you do is point out problems with everything except our current unsustainable system. Daddy must be the CEO of an oil company.

Not sure why you so pro-freezing to death

You're a fucking Republican dude. You've always been on the pro-freezing to death side of things when it comes to the poor. We have way more empty housing than we have homeless people, it's not and never has been an unsolvable problem so long as we ditch profit concerns. To you I'm sure that's the same thing as punching Jesus in the dick, though.

 

[omgcat]

Solar panels and wind turbines do not use rare earth materials. Wind turbines use fiberglass. The rare earth materials are consumed from all the massive batteries that will need to be manufactured to support your green utopia and it's not a one time purchase.

Iron air, and grid sized flow batteries are starting to commercialize, so the need for rare earth elements is going to drop drastically. on top of that lithium is 90+% recyclable. i'm not super worried about battery storage in even the medium term.

 

[TraderPatTX]

Okay...you enjoy gas that's $20/gallon at that point, and I'll pretend to feel "owned."

The market will dictate which direction we go.

My "green utopia" has a lot more lightrail/walkable cities and a lot fewer cars, EV or otherwise. So once again I'm proposing a solution while all you do is point out problems with everything except our current unsustainable system. Daddy must be the CEO of an oil company.

Your solutions create nothing but problems. Now your solution requires redesigning every city and town.

You're a fucking Republican dude. You've always been on the pro-freezing to death side of things when it comes to the poor. We have way more empty housing than we have homeless people, it's not and never has been an unsolvable problem so long as we ditch profit concerns. To you I'm sure that's the same thing as punching Jesus in the dick, though.

You mad, bro? Because you are still arguing with emotion. You should calm down before you start affecting your health. Your gonna end up like Fetterman if you keep this up.

 

[TraderPatTX]

Iron air, and grid sized flow batteries are starting to commercialize, so the need for rare earth elements is going to drop drastically. on top of that lithium is 90+% recyclable. i'm not super worried about battery storage in even the medium term.

From what little that I've just read about it, it seems promising. If it works, great. I'm all about technological breakthroughs. We just need to be able to gather energy without massacring 100's of thousands of birds or filling up landfills with old windmills or filling up every square inch of uninhabitable land with solar panels that achieve 10% efficiency.

 

[Xzi]

The market will dictate which direction we go.

Guess EVs win then, because every single car manufacturer is making more and more of them each year. It's not like gas vehicles do any one particular thing better, and I say that as someone who very much likes his current (fuel efficient) gas vehicle.

Your solutions create nothing but problems. Now your solution requires redesigning every city and town.

Which is already something we do anyway with constantly-expanding highways and roadways. Every summer is a clusterfuck of construction work.

Your gonna end up like Fetterman if you keep this up.

Why would I win a political race in PA if I'm not even running? Back on topic, though: you obviously don't understand how subsidizing costs work if you think any company would "go out of business" should the government help out with energy bills. The money gets paid either way. Europeans have nothing to worry about, because they don't have assholes like you arguing in favor of letting them freeze to appease the stock market.

 

[TraderPatTX]

Guess EVs win then, because every single car manufacturer is making more and more of them each year. It's not like gas vehicles do any one particular thing better, and I say that as someone who very much likes his current (fuel efficient) gas vehicle.

EV's can't haul loads. It's already been compared. EV's are inferior.

Which is already something we do anyway with constantly-expanding highways and roadways. Every summer is a clusterfuck of construction work.

What you are calling for is a lot more complicated than expanding highways.

Why would I win a political race in PA if I'm not even running? Back on topic, though: you obviously don't understand how subsidizing costs work if you think any company would "go out of business" should the government help out with energy bills. The money gets paid either way. Europeans have nothing to worry about, because they don't have assholes like you arguing in favor of letting them freeze to appease the stock market.

You know what I mean. Don't play coy.

Anything the government gets involved in makes it more expensive. See; education.

 

[Deleted member 114266]

Guess EVs win then, because every single car manufacturer is making more and more of them each year. It's not like gas vehicles do any one particular thing better, and I say that as someone who very much likes his current (fuel efficient) gas vehicle.

Would being able to run your gas power car be better than an EV?

California last week, we but in place no internal combustion car will be sold here after 2035.
California this week, please don't charge your EV we don't have enough power.