[POLL] 2020 U.S. Presidential Election

[crimpshrine]

I find that Liberals on this board will never admit they're wrong. That's a major character flaw. Their own fact checking pages they linked to don't even claim Trump said to drink bleach or directly suggested anyone take disinfectants without involving a doctor. I think they're just fucking stupid or trying to act stupid to play off the fact their own pages and the fact checks I listed claim Trump never said to ingest bleach ... So what is it? Ignorance or trying to weasel out of having to admit they're wrong?

Yeah I guess I get that now.

I said earlier I had never looked into this Trump told me to inject bleach stuff I heard about in the past because I figured like 80% of everything said bad about Trump it was just another media spin. Yep. Taking like 5 minutes to read the transcripts then found the youtube video to see what he said in relationship to those around him.

And that snopes is disgraceful. Looks like a thinly disguised propaganda piece for the left.

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The people claiming that life starts at birth rather than conception, digging giant holes in the ground will save the environment, and slapping a piece of paper onto your mouth will rid the world of all germs.

Hey Ultra, if you don't mind me asking, you are young aren't you? I thought I remember seeing you say in another post you were.. like you were under 20 if I remember correctly. Or maybe even younger.

I only ask because I think I was really surprised. To see someone so young actually question stuff, my experience in dealing with the young has been most people tend to line up with the rest.

 

[UltraSUPRA]

Hey Ultra, if you don't mind me asking, you are young aren't you? I thought I remember seeing you say in another post you were.. like you were under 20 if I remember correctly. Or maybe even younger.

I only ask because I think I was really surprised. To see someone so young actually question stuff, my experience in dealing with the young has been most people tend to line up with the rest.

I'm fifteen.

 

[gregory-samba]

Yeah I guess I get that now.

I said earlier I had never looked into this Trump told me to inject bleach stuff I heard about in the past because I figured like 80% of everything said bad about Trump it was just another media spin. Yep. Taking like 5 minutes to read the transcripts then found the youtube video to see what he said in relationship to those around him.

And that snopes is disgraceful. Looks like a thinly disguised propaganda piece for the left.

Even the snopes links don't have any evidence Trump said to ingest anything. I believe at this point they are just trolling because almost every single page I come across states the same thing. However, if you just watch the video of his speech you get the entire situation handed to you and he never said to ingest disinfectants. You don't need a page to tell you what he said, just watch and listen. If you can't figure it out after that you're just dumb. They just be trolololo. No one can be that stupid.

Fake News: Trump Didn't Tell People to Inject Bleach or Lysol Into Their Veins to Fight Coronavirus

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politi...into-their-veins-to-fight-coronavirus-n385980

On COVID-19, Donald Trump said that “maybe if you drank bleach you may be okay.” No, Trump didn’t tell Americans infected with the coronavirus to drink bleach

https://www.politifact.com/factchec...mp-didnt-tell-americans-infected-coronavirus/

Fact-check: Did Trump tell people to drink bleach to kill the coronavirus?

https://www.statesman.com/news/2020...ll-people-to-drink-bleach-to-kill-coronavirus

FACT CHECK: No, Trump Did Not Tell People To ‘Inject Themselves With Disinfectant’ Or ‘Drink Bleach’

https://www.dailywire.com/news/fact...-themselves-with-disinfectant-or-drink-bleach

 

[Deleted User]

LOL, I like how when you are pressed on your "claims" you just stop responding.

And Lacius, just ignores truth even when in front of his face, then pivots to the next thing when proven wrong on what he started with.

Like you OMG with HCQ crap, nothing of substance. Same thing as orange man bad, just with HCQ because Trumps said it was good at one point.

You guys are so obsessed with disagreeing with the president you ignore reality.

You do realize we don't live on this form? Along with gbatemp eventually no longer giving notifications on forms you respond to after a certain amount of time?
Regardless.
What damn truths? The conservative activist ones that want to genuinely sell you a story? The most reputable news source called 4chan? (if you can't tell, extreme sarcasm here. Both of them are complete dumpster fires)
Oh remember that bbc article. the one that you linked that supposedly proved me wrong about the media out to create "fake news" (think it was regarding CNN.)
When the story you linked, was article talking about how CNN fired three of their writers because the information put down was wrong?
Which... idk, kinda proves the exact opposite line of thinking given the amount of scruitiy trump tries putting on "the media" on a daily basis?
Oh and then all the countless "reputable" sources you linked me, like websites I've never even heard of. Or writers/journalists who I can't look up, or lacking a lot of information. Or has ties to [negative thing here]
that ends up severely discrediting them.

Also let's not forget how you switched threads, SWITCHED THREADS to complain about my ass and "liberals", and trying to pretend like you won the argument to your rant buddy Gregory
Also perhaps I should mention. I'm not a liberal. You should of long picked that up considering my stance against Biden. I can see why people choose Biden, and by far Trump is objectively worse than Biden. But to me Biden is still pretty bad.
But that's beyond the point. You reject "the media" yet consume it yourself. And rather than consuming anything of substance within said "media", you look for shit that will continue to push your own confirmation bias. And when people finally corner you, you go throw out word vomit to defend your leader. Throwing countless baseless ad hominem, right after the next usually.

The people claiming that life starts at birth rather than conception, digging giant holes in the ground will save the environment, and slapping a piece of paper onto your mouth will rid the world of all germs.

Wow. that is genuinely incredible. I didn't know surgeons slapped paper onto their faces. I also didn't know that somehow removed all germs in the entire world. It's almost as if your saying something hyperbolic and almost perhaps untrue. I also didn't know that we dig giant holes. I guess they must remain giant holes yes? (I have no idea what you mean by giant holes but I'll play along.)

 

[crimpshrine]

I'm fifteen.

yeah LOL then it was you I was thinking of.

If you are being serious then wow.

I don't meet many young people of your age that take such a realistic view of the world and things going on. We all learn as we move forward in life but I think you have a head start more than most young kids these days.

 

[Deleted User]

yeah LOL then it was you I was thinking of.

If you are being serious then wow.

I don't meet many young people of your age that take such a realistic view of the world and things going on. We all learn as we move forward in life but I think you have a head start more than most young kids these days.

A realistic views being surgeon's put a piece of paper on their face/mouth?
think that's maaaaaybe a stretch. Just a little.

 

[UltraSUPRA]

A realistic views being surgeon's put a piece of paper on their face/mouth?
think that's maaaaaybe a stretch. Just a little.

Paper masks.

 

[crimpshrine]

You do realize we don't live on this form? Along with gbatemp eventually no longer giving notifications on forms you respond to after a certain amount of time?
Regardless.
What damn truths? The conservative activist ones that want to genuinely sell you a story? The most reputable news source called 4chan? (if you can't tell, extreme sarcasm here. Both of them are complete dumpster fires)
Oh remember that bbc article. the one that you linked that supposedly proved me wrong about the media out to create "fake news" (think it was regarding CNN.)
When the story you linked, was article talking about how CNN fired three of their writers because the information put down was wrong?
Which... idk, kinda proves the exact opposite line of thinking given the amount of scruitiy trump tries putting on "the media" on a daily basis?
Oh and then all the countless "reputable" sources you linked me, like websites I've never even heard of. Or writers/journalists who I can't look up, or lacking a lot of information. Or has ties to [negative thing here]
that ends up severely discrediting them.

Also let's not forget how you switched threads, SWITCHED THREADS to complain about my ass and "liberals", and trying to pretend like you won the argument to your rant buddy Gregory
Also perhaps I should mention. I'm not a liberal. You should of long picked that up considering my stance against Biden. I can see why people choose Biden, and by far Trump is objectively worse than Biden. But to me Biden is still pretty bad.
But that's beyond the point. You reject "the media" yet consume it yourself. And rather than consuming anything of substance within said "media", you look for shit that will continue to push your own confirmation bias. And when people finally corner you, you go throw out word vomit to defend your leader. Throwing countless baseless ad hominem, right after the next usually.



Wow. that is genuinely incredible. I didn't know surgeons slapped paper onto their faces. I also didn't know that somehow removed all germs in the entire world. It's almost as if your saying something hyperbolic and almost perhaps untrue. I also didn't know that we dig giant holes. I guess they must remain giant holes yes? (I have no idea what you mean by giant holes but I'll play along.)

I wasn't talking/refering to you monkeyman with what you responded to.

 

[KingVamp]

Can't fix stupid.

You might be right, one of the reasons why we need to get Trump and his followers out of the White House.

 

[gregory-samba]

yeah LOL then it was you I was thinking of.

If you are being serious then wow.

I don't meet many young people of your age that take such a realistic view of the world and things going on. We all learn as we move forward in life but I think you have a head start more than most young kids these days.

He probably has both his mom and dad still in the house and either has a job and goes to school or just goes to school. His parents probably provide food and shelter for him. He's also most likely more responsible than the other kids so he doesn't do drugs. His insight shows he is stuck in reality as opposed to some delusional fantasy. Hopefully he also has faith as without it in this life you'll turn to stone and rot away.

 

[crimpshrine]

A realistic views being surgeon's put a piece of paper on their face/mouth?
think that's maaaaaybe a stretch. Just a little.

I have to get to bed soon so I am not going to be able to dredge up all the articles. The CDC references numerous studies that show surgical masks (and they are talking about the ones that are actually certified - unlike ones most people get) offer no extra protection from influenza. They have results from numerous studies on it over 15 years.

And we already know how small in size the Covid-19 particles can get, which is smaller than influenza given that it can stay airborne for multiple hours in right conditions. And has already been confirmed to be more transmissible.

Sure people have created nice looking videos that say if the masks are 50% effective and everyone is wearing one, then boom you have made a difference, etc.. (I know I am generalizing that)

The #'s they are choosing are guesses, with the size of the particles we are talking about, with breathing they will just go right through and come in to a mask. N95 masks are the only ones that can effectively stop (and they still are not 100%) particles that small.

Will they stop snot? yeah but most spreading of this is by asymptomatic people.

And we don't even know yet (not that I have seen yet at least) what the infectious dose of covid-19 is, they just say it is low.

That being said I still wear a mask when I go inside places because it is a rule where I live and I don't care to make others feel uncomfortable. It's about as helpful as a lucky coin though I would estimate.

But the previous science of it all would suggest surgeon masks are pretty much worthless for something like this.

 

[Deleted User]

I have to get to bed soon so I am not going to be able to dredge up all the articles. The CDC references numerous studies that show surgical masks (and they are talking about the ones that are actually certified - unlike ones most people get) offer no extra protection from influenza. They have results from numerous studies on it over 15 years.

And we already know how small in size the Covid-19 particles can get, which is smaller than influenza given that it can stay airborne for multiple hours in right conditions. And has already been confirmed to be more transmissible.

Sure people have created nice looking videos that say if the masks are 50% effective and everyone is wearing one, then boom you have made a difference, etc.. (I know I am generalizing that)

The #'s they are choosing are guesses, with the size of the particles we are talking about, with breathing they will just go right through and come in to a mask. N95 masks are the only ones that can effectively stop (and they still are not 100%) particles that small.

Will they stop snot? yeah but most spreading of this is by asymptomatic people.

And we don't even know yet (not that I have seen yet at least) what the infectious dose of covid-19 is, they just say it is low.

That being said I still wear a mask when I go inside places because it is a rule where I live and I don't care to make others feel uncomfortable. It's about as helpful as a lucky coin though I would estimate.

But the science of it all would suggest surgeon masks are pretty much worthless.

meanwhile
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html
yeah good job. Good debunk here. Want to keep going in circles?
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html
Why would they be wearing masks. I can also point to more than a couple of studies... Oh wait
you don't want to read them. I forgot. You also rather remain in your own world. I must of forgot.

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OK give me a minute. You think I am lying?

LOL

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea.../coronavirus-face-masks-what-you-need-to-know
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2
I wouldn't say your intentionally lying. I would call you more misinformed.

 

[crimpshrine]

meanwhile
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html
yeah good job. Good debunk here. Want to keep going in circles?
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html

OK give me a minute. You think I am lying?

LOL

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018. In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks (RR 0.78, 95% CI 0.51–1.20; I2 = 30%, p = 0.25) (Figure 2).


Dude you are as bad as the rest of them I guess.

The first article you linked to says:

Your mask may protect them. Their mask may protect you.

Do you know what may means?

It does not mean will.

LOL

And the 2nd article says the same.

Masks may help prevent people who have COVID-19 from spreading the virus to others.

They already have data on their own website showing it does NOT help with influenza.

 

[gregory-samba]

OK give me a minute. You think I am lying?

LOL

The thing about simple cloth coverings including surgical masks is that the covid particles may be really small, but they always cling to other particles that are much larger. That's why simple cloth coverings and surgical masks help to some extent. Yes, they don't filter out 100% and are loose fitting on the face, but they are better than nothing at all. Do your CDC studies just study the flu virus particles by themselves? If so that may be why you see that they aren't great for the flu, but better for covid, again due to the small particles that always cling to larger ones.

 

[Deleted User]

The thing about simple cloth coverings including surgical masks is that the covid particles may be really small, but they always cling to other particles that are much larger. That's why simple cloth coverings and surgical masks help to some extent. Yes, they don't filter out 100% and are loose fitting on the face, but they are better than nothing at all. Do your CDC studies just study the flu virus particles by themselves? If so that may be why you see that they aren't great for the flu, but better for covid, again due to the small particles that always cling to larger ones.

I would go a step further (and thank god it seems like you get it)
Since here's the thing. and I already stated this before I think the 3rd time now. Masks pull double duty. And some surgical masks have some smaller filters that have a better chance at catching covid/flu/viral either during inhale or exhale than just cloth based. The odds of blocking it are higher. at face value on it's own yes a mask on it's own won't drastically drop the rate of spread. But it's when two people wear masks. That's when magic starts happening (not really. figure of speech. making it clear now just in case.) Say a (surgical) mask is 25% effective. Which is not horrible, but anything would be better than not wearing a mask. Well. if everyone were to be a mask. It wouldn't be 25%. it would be 50%
Why? Say a particle of flu or covid throughthe mask. crossing that 25% threshold. It now has to cross that threshold a second time, for the other person. meaning it has to go deal with that 25% chance a second time. Now consider this

 

[crimpshrine]

The thing about simple cloth coverings including surgical masks is that the covid particles may be really small, but they always cling to other particles that are much larger. That's why simple cloth coverings and surgical masks help to some extent. Yes, they don't filter out 100% and are loose fitting on the face, but they are better than nothing at all. Do your CDC studies just study the flu virus particles by themselves? If so that may be why you see that they aren't great for the flu, but better for covid, again due to the small particles that always cling to larger ones.

The problem I have is that everything I have read about covid is a guesstimate with surgical masks. And I get someone wanting to do something rather than nothing even if it is not helping.

I don't recall off the top of my head what the size was for the covid-19 particles need to be to float but I believe it was 5 nanometers to float. Which a healthy younger person who is asymptomatic those would just go right through a surgical mask and they would be blasting them out with just breathing. A surgical mask is not going to stop those, and even N95 masks from what I read quickly lose their ability to stop things that size the more they are exposed to the elements.

The N95 masks are actually really good at catching particles that small for a period of time.

I was under the impression that cloth masks were even less effective than surgical masks for small particles.

 

[Deleted User]

The problem I have is that everything I have read about covid is a guesstimate with surgical masks. And I get someone wanting to do something rather than nothing even if it is not helping.

I don't recall off the top of my head what the size was for the covid-19 particles need to be to float but I believe it was 5 nanometers to float. Which a healthy younger person who is asymptomatic those would just go right through a surgical mask and they would be blasting them out with just breathing. A surgical mask is not going to stop those, and even N95 masks from what I read quickly lose their ability to stop things that size the more they are exposed to the elements.

The N95 masks are actually really good at catching particles that small for a period of time.

I was under the impression that cloth masks were even less effective than surgical masks for small particles.

read what I stated above, I condensed that video I sent, explaining why masks are better than you think.

 

[crimpshrine]

I would go a step further (and thank god it seems like you get it)
Since here's the thing. and I already stated this before I think the 3rd time now. Masks pull double duty. And some surgical masks have some smaller filters that have a better chance at catching covid/flu/viral either during inhale or exhale than just cloth based. Flu is similar. The odds of blocking it are higher. at face value on it's own yes a mask on it's own won't drastically drop the rate of spread. But it's when two people wear masks. That's when magic starts happening (not really. figure of speech. making it clear now just in case.) Say a (surgical) mask is 25% effective. Which is not horrible, but anything would be better. Well. if everyone were to be a mask. It wouldn't be 25%. it would be 50%
Why? Say a particle of flu or covid throughthe mask. crossing that 25% threshold. It now has to cross that threshold a second time, for the other person. meaning it has to go deal with that 25% chance a second time.

The problem monkeman is you are pulling the effective rate of a surgical masks out of the air.

Show me one single article by scientists that rate a surgical mask at 25% for blocking Covid-19 sized particles please.

 

[omgcat]

The problem I have is that everything I have read about covid is a guesstimate with surgical masks. And I get someone wanting to do something rather than nothing even if it is not helping.

I don't recall off the top of my head what the size was for the covid-19 particles need to be to float but I believe it was 5 nanometers to float. Which a healthy younger person who is asymptomatic those would just go right through a surgical mask and they would be blasting them out with just breathing. A surgical mask is not going to stop those, and even N95 masks from what I read quickly lose their ability to stop things that size the more they are exposed to the elements.

The N95 masks are actually really good at catching particles that small for a period of time.

I was under the impression that cloth masks were even less effective than surgical masks for small particles.

only very small amounts of breathed particles come out as 5nm or smaller, unless you are yelling. the point is not to stop all particles, it's to slam the particles into a wall (the inside of the mask) so that they do not travel as far as if there wasn't a wall. most of the material coming out of your mouth is rather large (spittle for example) that gets smaller as it evaporates moving through the air(how you get most sub 10nm droplets). you are shrinking your viral range by wearing a mask.

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/4...s-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

"One category of evidence comes from laboratory studies of respiratory droplets and the ability of various masks to block them. An experiment using high-speed video found that hundreds of droplets ranging from 20 to 500 micrometers were generated when saying a simple phrase, but that nearly all these droplets were blocked when the mouth was covered by a damp washcloth. Another study of people who had influenza or the common cold found that wearing a surgical mask significantly reduced the amount of these respiratory viruses emitted in droplets and aerosols."

A recent study published in Health Affairs, for example, compared the COVID-19 growth rate before and after mask mandates in 15 states and the District of Columbia. It found that mask mandates led to a slowdown in daily COVID-19 growth rate, which became more apparent over time. The first five days after a mandate, the daily growth rate slowed by 0.9 percentage-points compared to the five days prior to the mandate; at three weeks, the daily growth rate had slowed by 2 percentage-points.


Another study looked at coronavirus deaths across 198 countries and found that those with cultural norms or government policies favoring mask-wearing had lower death rates.


Two compelling case reports also suggest that masks can prevent transmission in high-risk scenarios, said Chin-Hong and Rutherford. In one case, a man flew from China to Toronto and subsequently tested positive for COVID-19. He had a dry cough and wore a mask on the flight, and all 25 people closest to him on the flight tested negative for COVID-19. In another case, in late May, two hair stylists in Missouri had close contact with 140 clients while sick with COVID-19. Everyone wore a mask and none of the clients tested positive.


Trust science, facts, and logic plz

 

[crimpshrine]

only very small amounts of breathed particles come out as 5nm or smaller, unless you are yelling. the point is not to stop all particles, it's to slam the particles into a wall (the inside of the mask) so that they do not travel as far as if there wasn't a wall. most of the material coming out of your mouth is rather large (spittle for example) that gets smaller as it evaporates moving through the air(how you get most sub 10nm dropslets). you are shrinking your viral range by wearing a mask.

Even if we go up to non floating particles a surgeons mask is not going to stop 120-140 nanometer sized particles either.

The problem I have and I am hung up on is that they don't even know what the viral dose level is required to be infected by covid-19, and unless you show me a science analysis they did on a asymptomatic person on the younger side where they captured their breath with with and without a mask on, (and did an analysis) any estimate to effectiveness of a surgical mask is just a guess at this point.

That and the fact that there are numerous scientific studies that show surgical masks do not prevent the spread of influenza. That seems like a more realistic gauge if you don't have solid data to back up the claims with covid-19 and surgical masks.

Again I wear a mask and my family does, this is not political for me in any way. I just just do not see the data to suggest it helps. And I have said this before, at least 80% of the people I see at the store the act of them wearing these surgical masks or cloth masks is likely leading to them actually getting covid-19 if it is present on their shopping carts, etc. Touching their faces from adjusting before they have had a chance to clean their hands properly. Probably most of the guessed effective rates of these masks go out the window when you start to include all the other variables involved.