What if it's Trump OR the republican party?

Whom do you trust more...?

  • Trump all the way, baby!

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • Loyalty to the Grande Old Party (republican) first

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I'm just here for the popcorn

    Votes: 10 83.3%

  • Total voters
    12

Taleweaver

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...I guess I should apologize for this topic, but let me assure you: I'm not attempting to troll(1). Here's the situation...

Everyone and their dog knows about the presidential election. Most people have come to terms with the results, but a part of the population still believes that there was massive fraud. And that doesn't seem to change after actual lawsuits (what's the current score? 26 losses to 0 wins?), in large part (2) because Donald Trump himself keeps repeating allegations.

The thing is: I can easily list a dozen sources saying that the allegations are unfounded or not based on reality, but that just means these sources are creditworthy TO ME. Trump supporters start from the belief that Trump doesn't lie, and that therefore the media claiming otherwise is lying. Heck...it probably strengthens their resolve ("so many are saying Trump is lying. Therefore, I should back him EVEN HARDER"...that sort of reasoning). Still...it's the reality as we've come to expect.

So...time to focus on that other election. The one about the senate. The one democrats forgot to steal somehow (3): the senate. Because while everyone was watching the presidential elections, republicans just beat all the polls and raked in 50 of the 100 seats(4). Democrats rose far less than expected to just 48...or 49, if you count the new vice-president elect Kamala Harris, who gets to be the tie-breaker. Two seats were too close to be called in Georgia (Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue), so there'll be a runoff election on January 5th.


...and this is where things get interesting: because Georgia went to Biden, Trump isn't too happy with them. And if Trump isn't happy, neither are his allies. Which leads to...well...this situation: Trump supporters openly talking about boycotting this election or staying at home because of the (alleged) voter fraud in the earlier election. I'm talking guys who tweet stuff like not voting in “another fraudulent election with rigged voting machines & fake mail ballots.” (L. Lin Wood) or "writing in the president's name" (making the ballot invalid).
Granted: it's just a local election (Georgia only, IIRC). Still...it's an interesting case.


Thus far, Trump has always been running in the republican party since 2016(5). Outside critics claim that he has turned the GOP into Trump's private party. As an even outsiderish outsider, I can't really tell the difference. So this situation is an easy opportunity. Not even a hypothetical one either:


@GOP/Trump supporters: if push came to shove (which seem to become the case), how would you deal if you were in Georgia? Would you support those two candidates? And more broadly: if Trump said something the GOP directly contradicts...who would you believe?


EDIT: I suppose there's an alternative question here as well: if Trump would run for president in 2024 as an independent candidate, would you vote for him or for the GOP candidate?

EDIT: heh...just when you thought it couldn't be more stupid...Trump's former lawyers rally to boycott this election as well.


(1): I won't deny that I personally find the situation hilarious, though. :creep:
(2): as of writing, William Barr openly told there'd be no allegation of fraud to the degree it would affect the outcome. It should probably be "exlusively because Trump keeps repeating the lie", but that's not the goal of this thread
(3): yeah, no...I've got no idea how trumpists measure up that outcome in their head. And to be honest, I don't want to know how good they are are doublethink. :sleep:
(4): it has to be noted that not all the seats were up for election
(5): I'm currently reading 'Fear'. In it, Woodward mentions casually that Trump had initially some hurdles to overcome, among which having contributed to democrat politicians.
 
Last edited by Taleweaver,

notimp

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Well, as a Trump supporter in Georgia, you would obviously support the democrats.

And if this is an attempt to find out who will win longterm 'ideocracy or reason' - watch this:

"It depends on you."
 

KingVamp

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I just hope Democrats don't get complacent by this or complacent in general. We don't know how many people will actually not vote because they honestly believe the systems is rigged or just want to stick it to the Republicans, that will actually change that election.
 

FAST6191

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It is an interesting question.

I don't know if it ranks as his private party, or just a figure of change within it.
Take a step back though.

Generally it is noted political parties tend to have a shakeup every 40 or so years to keep themselves relevant for the kids (and the declining popularity prior to does rather speak to the need for something).
Reagan (late 70s/early 80s) then being the last one to do that with it ushering in the era of evangelist religious types, George Bush the second then being basically the last vestiges of that particular line of thought, and even then the libertarian, business interests and others were making an alliance more than a party of mutual interests.
If then nobody under 35 votes, especially not for the republican party (if as a youth you have no heart and all that), and religion in the US following (albeit a few steps behind) the rest of the first world and seeing religion die on its arse, then yeah average life expectancy/population pyramids means it is about time (if not overdue).

There are those that ponder whether Trump is one of those great men of history. Now the great man approach to history is something of a maligned one these days (and there are many things to ponder as part of looking at history) but it is not invalid as an approach. Personally I would say puppet with a few points in speech (bluster sub type) and an approach not necessarily anticipated by the system which had fallen into well worn grooves, even if said grooves did serve to frustrate businessman in chief that could not play businessman. An avatar rather than a driver.
At the same time I noted Bush the second as being the last of the line of thought, and this would probably be showcased in how the previous candidate was a Mormon which is a rather different approach to the world to evangelists (even if as bedfellows they are not so far apart on some issues) and prior to that McCain was hardly a staunch religious type compared to some (his running mate being something of an appeasement to them), even tweaked the noses of a few of them.

I am however curious what would happen if the democrats had run a decent candidate.

In the end I shall go with a quote I read in school so many years ago
http://www.vroma.org/~hwalker/Pliny/Pliny09-06-E.html
Pliny the Younger 61 – c. 113 said:
BOOK NINE

LETTER 6

TO CALVISIUS



I HAVE spent these several days past among my papers with the most pleasing tranquillity imaginable. You will ask how that can possibly be in the midst of Rome? Why, the Circensian Games were taking place; a kind of entertainment for which I have not the least taste. They have no novelty, no variety, nothing, in short, one would wish to see twice. I am the more astonished that so many thousands of grown men should be possessed again and again with a childish passion to look at galloping horses, and men standing upright in their chariots. If, indeed, they were attracted by the swiftness of the horses or the skill of the men, one could account for this enthusiasm. But in fact it is a bit of cloth they favour, a bit of cloth that captivates them. And if during the running the racers were to exchange colours, their partisans would change sides, and instantly forsake the very drivers and horses whom they were just before recognizing from afar, and clamorously saluting by name.



Such favour, such weighty influence, hath one cheap tunic never mind it with the vulgar herd who are more worthless than the tunics they wear but with certain grave personages. When I observe such men thus insatiably fond of so silly, so low, so uninteresting, so common an entertainment, I congratulate myself that I am insensible to these pleasures: and am glad to devote the leisure of this season to literature, which others throw away upon the most idle employment. Farewell.
 
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