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Nintendo 3DS source code leaked

3ds.png

Two in a row today!

The item of interest, barely four hours after the last major drop, consists of partial source code for the Nintendo 3DS family updated as of October 2014:

  • Source code for the 3DS bootroms and kernels, including modules (drivers) for 3DS mode.
  • Precompiled DSi and GBA bootroms (the latter being the NDS variant).
  • Source code for most developer titles, including many not directly released to licensed developers.

The above list is the result of a cursory analysis: it may contain inaccuracies. However, notably, it does not contain any regular system application or applet, meaning the inevitable question about what this means for the 300 icon limit can already be answered.


ctr.7z - SHA1: 67026A413E08577B9F174168A7F02A8751571E87 - info-hash: 6efb571ce3eec59dfa6d6627da6581292a3e6a57


[platform=/platform/3ds]Old Nintendo 3DS[/platform]
 
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Joom

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I don't think the Judge would toss the book at you for having a couple nudes of your girlfriend.
They do if she's underage. There is no nuance when it comes to CP. But you are right. I forgot he had a folder full of crap.
I'm just connecting the dots you provided. You are just sprinkling dots everywhere.
Try not to speculate too hard there, professor.
 
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Jayro

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Is it a rate or just someone got a nice dump and is spacing it out a bit?
It sure sounds like it, and I'm loving all of this. I just want people to use the source code as good references for improving emulators and CFW (Nothing wrong with referencing source code to get a better understanding of the hardware, just don't copy/paste everything verbatim.)

Now only the Wii U source code is missing. :wacko:
We need this so badly. I'm still upset that we can't restore nand dumps without a hardmod.
 
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Ryccardo

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but hasn't the DSi bootrom been dumped already?
The unprotected bootrom, ie the built-in standard library, has (you can legally dump that yourself with FWTool in DSi mode), but not the part that gets ordinarily disabled in the boot sequence

we might get something out of this from china. IDK what though, Flashcart?
Orange Sky3DS, already on the market for a few years, is not accurate enough for you? :)
(admittedly nobody really did such tests AFAIK)
 
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Valery0p

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The unprotected bootrom, ie the built-in standard library, has (you can legally dump that yourself with FWTool in DSi mode), but not the part that gets ordinarily disabled in the boot sequence
Are you sure this leak contains the full 64kb bootrom of the arm7 processor? At a quick glance I've seen only the unprotected half of it ( TwlNormalRom7.sbin, only 32kb, practically identical to what you can dump with current tools as you described, known in no$gba as bios7i.bin)
Grazie in anticipo :)
 
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Izual Urashima

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And unsurprisingly, we got the same people (since those people tend to use the same mail/location marks) throwing around the "you shouldn't use these, it isn't legal and Nintendo could sue you" everywhere around.

Simple reminders, people :
- You can't be sued for reading source code, understanding how it works and using said knowledge to enhance your own code, or else most of the emulation scene would have been sued to hell and beyond. You can, however, be sued if it can be proven that you copypasted parts of it blindly
- Considering how it could cost lots if said source code gets reverse-engineered, it is beneficial to companies whose code it belongs (Nintendo, but also Microsoft considering the recent source code leak of the OG Xbox) to spread disinformation in order to mud the waters. It has happened before, it will happen again later, so don't look surprised if it happens here.

I'll probably get criticized a lot for this post, but it's something worth pointing out.
 

PatrickD85

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Not sure how to feel about it really .. As it does show Nintendo have to take action.
And in hindsight all we can expect in the future is way tighter security on all fronts.
That when looking at the 'scene' in general well it could mean a lot less.

But that is just me ranting to myself ... only time will tell what this will cause Nintendo to do.
 

LuigiXL

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Can someone explain to a simpleton what this does? Can it be made into emulators or knock offs? I don’t understand how this is “bad”. Thanks so much.
 

FAST6191

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It sure sounds like it, and I'm loving all of this. I just want people to use the source code as good references for improving emulators and CFW (Nothing wrong with referencing source code to get a better understanding of the hardware, just don't copy/paste everything verbatim.)
Even ignoring the fruit of a poison tree problem is there much this is likely to add? As far as I am aware we already have total control and as good as total understanding as is really necessary to do anything.

And unsurprisingly, we got the same people (since those people tend to use the same mail/location marks) throwing around the "you shouldn't use these, it isn't legal and Nintendo could sue you" everywhere around.

Simple reminders, people :
- You can't be sued for reading source code, understanding how it works and using said knowledge to enhance your own code, or else most of the emulation scene would have been sued to hell and beyond. You can, however, be sued if it can be proven that you copypasted parts of it blindly
- Considering how it could cost lots if said source code gets reverse-engineered, it is beneficial to companies whose code it belongs (Nintendo, but also Microsoft considering the recent source code leak of the OG Xbox) to spread disinformation in order to mud the waters. It has happened before, it will happen again later, so don't look surprised if it happens here.

I'll probably get criticized a lot for this post, but it's something worth pointing out.

You personally get sent to the cleaners and spend the rest of your life all poor? Probably not.
However we have several very notable cases, some even featuring Nintendo, about using illegitimately obtained information to do things vs other things.
Atari Games Corp. v. Nintendo of America Inc. in 1992 is usually overshadowed by Sega vs Accolade a month later, and Lewis Galoob Toys, Inc. v. Nintendo of America, Inc. before that (game genies = legit for that one), but it does deal with this; short version is Atari pretended to be legit to get info, judges were all nah mate can't do that.

At that point if Nintendo wanted to be arseholes (have we all missed the last however many years/decades?) then they could make things rather more annoying as far as sharing homebrew, emulators and the like that spill out from it. Maybe source code and compile could still happen, though maybe not on a nice public service like github, but that is a pain in the arse vs being able to freely download a binary, share it, participate in public donations and also grab source and participate in development without having to join random IRC channels and know the secret handshake. See the original xbox, which to this day has one of the best emulation scenes going (the emulation is good, the UI is consistent and good, the features available on the emulation are great... as far as I am concerned most of it is better than the Wii was which came years later), for how that one plays out.

Equally there are ways to legitimately reverse engineer things that they can't do anything about -- using an off the shelf ARM processor style means you can download a manual from ARM and learn a lot, using a slightly hacked up version of mobile opengl for the graphics means you can learn much from public manuals, you inject some data into the 3d memory or whatever and see how it displays, add one to one bit, figure out what that does and repeat until you understand it all and that is fine. Leaked source code is anything but that though.

The above has already been done too. Had this happened during the early days of the 3ds (maybe after some keys had been found, though it might have accelerated that too) then that might have changed things, though again it would probably have been forced underground like the xbox. Today however the hardware is known, people have done the necessary legwork and for the most part it is about implementing what is already known, and squashing bugs or speeding things up/figuring out what shortcuts you can take.
At this point such info is mostly just of historical interest. Depending upon its vintage you can figure out what devs likely knew and why they might have made games a certain way, might have some info in the formats Nintendo used/provided (most of which have been figured out already, known from elsewhere or are straight custom). As far as custom firmwares go then between homebrew and what is already out there then there is not a lot you are likely to gain.

Can someone explain to a simpleton what this does? Can it be made into emulators or knock offs? I don’t understand how this is “bad”. Thanks so much.
A console is usually little more than an arrangement of some off the shelf chips with a basic operating system or firmware to hold it together.
The makers of this console however have to document the changes to hardware and way it all speaks to each other so their developers can actually do something with it in a sensible amount of time.
Back in the 8 or 16 bit era this documentation was really quite detailed hardware notes much like you would see on something like http://problemkaputt.de/gbatek.htm . Absolutely wonderful for those making emulators, hacking games, making games.
Starting with the 32 bit era then this started to be less and less as the devs moved away from twiddling the hardware at the lowest levels and instead had the compiler take care of it all (far easier on any number of fronts).
Today this shift has been going on for decades so the documentation and leaks are mostly of the dev docs (not much good unless you are going to use the official tools to make a game) and some of the aspects of the firmware/OS/underlying code binding the hardware together. The latter stuff might be interesting if it had not already been dumped years ago and analysed for anything interesting (the code is usually quite small with very limited functionality so it is already done). Some might also be able to do a bit more with some of the operating system/firmware but frankly all the protections have already been removed and limitations gone, and anybody with enough skill to do something useful can do it in a reasonable timeframe via other means.

It is bad in some ways for some people as various court rulings over the years have said using information you do not legitimately have access to in turn taints your work, which means Nintendo could turn around and say be gone as this bothers my copyright (and given they don't care for youtube videos what do you imagine they will say about emulation that they have had a serious hate for going on for years and years now?). At that point public sharing of the finished click this and go binary, possibly the source code, hosting source code on public platforms, having ads/donations on your website if you are the dev, making tools to make source code into binaries, possibly your ROM hacking tools/projects... all potentially then has to go underground which makes things 10 times harder (see the recent efforts with Mario 64 for a modern version here, or if you were around for the original xbox and wondered why downloading a nice zip from a website like this one and FTPing it across was not the order of the day as much as messing around with passworded download sites for a whole scene of it).

Equally at this point in the game the information on how things work is all well known as people figured it out.
They can tell leaked data might have been used in various ways as well. Most commonly some misinformation or a slightly longer way of doing something than is optimal will be included that does not have an immediately obvious tell for (the code might even work just fine). They see this misinformation be implemented in an emulator/homebrew by someone with access to the copy and paste commands and they know things have been used. You could go through and vet all the leaked info as accurate by doing it all on hardware but at that point you might as well have done it all yourself anyway. Clean room reverse engineering is a topic to look up there.
 

64bitmodels

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holy shit wow, i must've been so caught up in the sonic thread i didnt even see this
this is crazy, is nintendo's servers falling apart or something?? youd think that after the n64 and wii fiasco theyd try to make their servers more secure...

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This is insane. i wonder if they would do something about that 300 icon limit.

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geez if that would happen then the nintendo ninjas would really shut things down fast
If that happened i would stop updating my switch and wait for the next new exploit- if switch SRC was released hackers could poke around and find some homebrew gateways
 

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While the general consensus here is that emulators could not use any of the leaks files aside from just reading it and figuring out how to implement some of it without tipping off the authority, I think that would only apply to already established and more importantly, open source emulators. New and anonymous developers could use the leaks to make a new, closed source emulator that could perform better than the open source one. I'm afraid if this would happen, it would take away the attention and money from the open source project to the closed source project. We already saw this happened with a PCSX2 rip off that stole the PCSX2 code, make it work on Android and claim it their own. Considering the leak,I feel this situation will most likely happen again with a 3DS emulator on Android since both Citra and Mikage is still early in the development for their Android releases.
 

64bitmodels

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While the general consensus here is that emulators could not use any of the leaks files aside from just reading it and figuring out how to implement some of it without tipping off the authority, I think that would only apply to already established and more importantly, open source emulators. New and anonymous developers could use the leaks to make a new, closed source emulator that could perform better than the open source one. I'm afraid if this would happen, it would take away the attention and money from the open source project to the closed source project. We already saw this happened with a PCSX2 rip off that stole the PCSX2 code, make it work on Android and claim it their own. Considering the leak,I feel this situation will most likely happen again with a 3DS emulator on Android since both Citra and Mikage is still early in the development for their Android releases.
Closed Source emulators are generally more safe since theyre... closed source- the only way you can get the SRC would be to literally hack into the guy's computer and extract it yourself. I'd honestly be fine with an emulator using the source code (as in literally copypasted) as long as it's closed source- i'd also be fine with more of the money going to that project instead. Nintendo couldnt sue them unless they literally sent out a lawyer to inspect their computer. The closed source emulator using the official source code is way more accurate than the one using custom code since the former literally has the original code in it.
It just makes more sense to me to support the better more accurate emulator
 
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Nintendo don't care about 3DS anymore, they probably leaked the code themselves to let hackers play with the 3DS and leave the Switch alone.
 

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First of all the emulator devs won't touch it. Ask the citra devs and i guarantee you they will confirm this.
Second citra already has basically everything figured out needed to make games run properly. A new, closed source emulator has no advantage whatsoever and would lack the man power to catch up with citra.

In summary: This source means nothing for emulation. It can help to correct documentation and can be used as guidance but it can't be used in any other way.
 
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