my thoughts about softmodding devices

[migles]

after several years i noticed a cycle with hacking\modding and companies

lets keep it simple: a company releases a console, players try to find a hole on the system to play backup games\games they don't own, company releases patches\new firmware new revision of the console to stop that happening, and then there is a fight for years, some times even after a new console is released

this can't be stopped from happening, and everyone got their opinion, but my point is not this

now lets go to business:

what happens to that old systems\games which the company doesn't care anymore? in case of really old pc games which companies no longer exist, some people reefer to "abandonware"

if a company "abandons" a game\system, shouldn't be fair and considered legal to play games we don't own?

lets say, i have an old game boy color, of course nintendo will not release any more games for it, and its obsolescent now, but what i do now since the console is in my basement without having games for it.. i can only buy used games from other people, but lets think about the future, we do have consoles capable of running games from internal storage like the ps3 and 3ds, like the psp had proven the ability of running "ilegal" games is so simple as a system update....

so, i think there should be laws and consumer rights when a company makes an old system obsolescent, like they should be forced to sell devices\update the old systems so the AP gets removed

everyday i see a future of buying a console with online services and that services get closed when the company wants, i have memory of seeing EA games once releasing a game and close is online service after 2 months of is release... why don't release an open source or an alternative for thoose services?

i wold like to purchase a flashcart from nintendo itself for example to play on my old game boy, this way was a win for both parts, companies still make some profit from old systems, and players are not beaten with a stick or have moral problems for cracking a device AP

in 2010\2009 i had seen a new "sega mega drive" on stores, with sonic games and etc, i find it really cool because they keep the cartridge slot and i still could get my old cartridges and play on that console, this was really nice... but with one problem, sega picked up their old games and released them in every console, i see the same old sonic game on every single console from today, even steam got a sega mega drive emulator... this is cool at some point but... i already payed for that same game the full price back in 1992, i don't want to continue buying the same game in every next gen console, i have the cartridge, i bought it on steam, i don't need to purchase it again on my 3ds.. i'd like to play on my 3ds but come on, i already payed for the game twice...

so, after all this time, why the industry doesn't look at the players with them eyes and take down AP in old systems... look at smea, he is playing with the 3ds firmware, people say he doesn't like people to use his work for stop purchasing games and just softmod the console to have free games.... when nintendo decides to abandon the 3ds system if they take out their AP maybe this encouraged hackers\modders with morals stop playing with the AP... and costumers would appreciate better..

after some documentaries i had seen on youtube from the hacker community, i had seen some people who just does this stuff to run linux or their own codes on consoles and get some freedom of the device they bought...

everyday i fin the companies more abusing with AP and shutting down online services stopping us from having a good game experinece...

but yeah, i think i have a point with one flaw, games and consoles are different things of course, a license to play a game is diferent from buy a console and want freedom to play with it, i mean, if companies would take down their AP a person would be free to get hands on titles they don't own, but i am talking about that games for old consoles the developers\studios can't get any proffit from it anymore... that games you can only buy from used stores or ebay

ps: i am aware of being so confused some times, if someone find me very confusing and could explain my point i would appreciate it since my english is bad sometimes...

 

[FAST6191]

Abandonware is actually a term with increasing (and widely varying) legal meaning though . Strictly speaking it refers to works that no longer can have their owner traced (companies getting purchased, going bankrupt or just being shuttered and the works attributable to them belonging to who knows), age has nothing to do with it* other than a correlation between age and the chances of it happening.

*some abandonware discussions do have a time limit attached.

"if a company "abandons" a game\system"
Copyright is up in the decades mark at this point, software was made an abstract concept from the system it runs on for a reason and emulation/recompilation exists. Companies are more than happy to sell me collections, virtual consoles.
On the other hand a lot of places are seeing a rising level of electronic rubbish which leads to laws like "such things must be unlockable at the end of their service life (if not before)".

"we do have consoles capable of running games from internal storage"
True, second hand sale laws have not really caught up yet and beyond that several people buying music in such a manner have already been burned.

"of course nintendo will not release any more games for it"
What does that matter? I can still buy a copy of LSDJ.

"companies still make some profit from old systems"
profit = money made - money invested. Are you sure the equation will balance?
Similarly money invested can be quite variable if you have to task some of your people with rare skills to do it (and electrical engineering and general engineering people are typically not as throwaway as an office temp).
Beyond that Nintendo do not own the rights to a lot of things.

"[I paid] for the game"
No you paid for an instance of the work. A somewhat different concept.

Some of it might stand to work but there is a whole body of IP law designed to stop it from happening.

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

after several years i noticed a cycle with hacking\modding and companies

And if by several years you mean this generation alone, right? Y'know, because the PS360 generation was the first to introduce upgradable console firmwares. And you know what? The Wii/PS3/360 consoles weren't abandoned at all. There hasn't been an abandoned mainstream console because of piracy...ever as far as I know. Nintendo never gave up on the DS line, nor has Sony given up on their portable line either, and I doubt they ever will. Mostly because the whole "PIRACY IS COSTING GAME COMPANIES BAJILLIONS OF DOLLARS" is bullshit. For more info on that, see Rydian's Thread. Particularly:

Piracy kills game systems.
There is no correlation between systems that fail (or succeed) and piracy. Multiple systems have failed terribly without any piracy in their lifetime (Virtual Boy, N-Gage, CD-i), while other systems that had piracy enabled for the majority of their lifetime ended up being some of the top sellers of their generation (PS1, Wii, GBA, DS, etc.)

This holds true for games as well, for example the PS3 was the last console of the 7th generation to be hacked (and patched the hacks quickly and recent models are unhackable), yet it sold many less games than the Wii, which was the first to be hacked (and does not patch hacks quickly, and still has hackable models being sold).

 

[Foxi4]

Mmm-yeah, no.

If you're really dedicated enough to play retro consoles, you can easily acquire them regardless of how old they are, still. The content is protected by copyright law and until it becomes Public Domain for whatever reason, there's really nothing that would justify pirating it. With services like E-Bay, craigslist, Amazon and whatnot you can get your hands on even the oldest games and systems, laziness when it comes to searching or unwillingness to make a purchase is not a justification.

 

[Taleweaver]

Uhmm...okay...nice brainfart. But you're making quite some assumptions that don't hold much ground.

First of: your first three paragraphs don't have anything to do with the topic you're discussing (even though that IS your topic title). The main part of it goes about abandonware, so that should be the topic.

if a company "abandons" a game\system, shouldn't be fair and considered legal to play games we don't own?

No. Sorry. Companies often sell patents, franchises and/or ideas after bankruptcy, and if not, they're usually picked up by some of the team members. There's no general rule and usually nobody to prosecute you if you pirate, but that doesn't make it legal in any way.


so, i think there should be laws and consumer rights when a company makes an old system obsolescent, like they should be forced to sell devices\update the old systems so the AP gets removed

Two questions:
1. why should any politician pass these sorts of laws? They don't have anything to gain by it. And even if such a law was passed, it's not going to change anything on the thousands of games currently made.
2. why should the gaming industry agree to this? They make the game on their terms, and if a country doesn't like it, they can decide to skip the country entirely.


everyday i see a future of buying a console with online services and that services get closed when the company wants, i have memory of seeing EA games once releasing a game and close is online service after 2 months of is release... why don't release an open source or an alternative for thoose services?

Good luck convincing gaming companies.

i wold like to purchase a flashcart from nintendo itself for example to play on my old game boy, this way was a win for both parts, companies still make some profit from old systems, and players are not beaten with a stick or have moral problems for cracking a device AP

If nintendo owned all games on their system, they could do this (even though this would mean they won't be able to milk their franchises as they're currently doing - see also NES remix). However, as said before: it wouldn't even be legal for them to release such a chip, as they do not own all games on their system. That would only be legal if ALL the companies who ever released a gameboy game agreed to this. And with the retired and quit companies, that would be madness to figure out even if everyone would agree to that (which isn't the case).

after some documentaries i had seen on youtube from the hacker community, i had seen some people who just does this stuff to run linux or their own codes on consoles and get some freedom of the device they bought...

The key point is THEIR OWN code. Linux (at least most distributions) is freeware and open source. Most games are not.



That said...there is some hope. For one, developers can decide to give old games away for free. While these are usually very old games, there's occasionally something more recent (e.g. L4D2). And if not, there already is a law that states that works and goods become public property after a long time. However, this is usually 100 years after the death of the author (this may be shorter on programs, but I'm not sure). So for games with a single creator...just start waiting. On games made by a company...it depends.

 

[migles]

And if by several years you mean this generation alone, right? Y'know, because the PS360 generation was the first to introduce upgradable console firmwares. And you know what? The Wii/PS3/360 consoles weren't abandoned at all. There hasn't been an abandoned mainstream console because of piracy...ever as far as I know. Nintendo never gave up on the DS line, nor has Sony given up on their portable line either, and I doubt they ever will. Mostly because the whole "PIRACY IS COSTING GAME COMPANIES BAJILLIONS OF DOLLARS" is bullshit. For more info on that, see Rydian's Thread. Particularly:

maybe i counted the "years" wrong, i was talking about older systems like game boy itself, and old goold snes, thats why i said hardware (maybe i forgot to say that) companies could sell hardware for old consoles so we can run our code, it doesn't cost a lot of money like it happears to do, like oficial nintendo flashcarts for gba\snes etc, where you insert a memory card like sd card, and you could play your backups\run your own code etc, on old system lines... terhre is no need for advertsement.. just make the hardware and sell it via their website or some retailers...

it is true sony and nintendo didn't entirely gave up their consoles, but it was really cool to ask nintendo\sony a way of running illegal copiess (people usually say backups but lets face it, the backup is usually a lie) or running our own code, it would be cool for learning how to code, play old games wich the company doens't profit anymore from it (but used game stores profit from it which is a negative point for my opinion)

sure we can reverse engineer it and get some hardware and learn electronics and stuff from making our way for the console to run our own code, but still if i did it i would feel like a rat...

i find it hard to believe a company quits from a console because of piracy, and when a console was successful exploited i actually see people buy the console because of that... so it doens't cost "bajillions of dollares" like people say it does...

 

[Qtis]

it is true sony and nintendo didn't entirely gave up their consoles, but it was really cool to ask nintendo\sony a way of running illegal copiess (people usually say backups but lets face it, the backup is usually a lie) or running our own code, it would be cool for learning how to code, play old games wich the company doens't profit anymore from it (but used game stores profit from it which is a negative point for my opinion)

Learning to code and running your code is a lot easier with a "standard" linux distro. Going your way to learn to code for a console is not really the way you'll learn fast, since consoles usually have quite unique SDKs or methods of running code due to hardware choices/restraints.

As some have already said, old games can still be played with many newer consoles. Quite a few GB games are available on the 3DS eShop regardless of their age. Just the same is happening on many other consoles. Some consoles can even play all generations before, not to mention the possibilities of cloud based gaming like future release of Gaikai on the PS4.

And for the matter of old games, there are perfectly legal options available. Some services (GoG.com for example) have even made the experience better with removal of DRM, adding support for modern systems and even adding content to old games. And for fraction of the price of the original games. For example, I've bought stuff for about $60 this Christmas from GoG.com and I've got games to play for the next decade or so with my limited time available (easily thousands of hours with games/series like Fallout, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Might and magic, etc).