Is piracy justifiable?

[Veho]

Ok, so let's assume then that "we, the downloaders", are a meagre 50 million people (worldwide).
The average game, we'll say, is about $30 CAD or USD. Let's say that this company made 50 million copies of this game.
It would take ONE person to backup the game onto their computer, and then 49,999,999 other people have access to it - without having to leave the comfort of their own home.
Anyone know what 49,999,999 x $30 is?

And counting on that money as already earned is just bad business. Any company actually working with that kind of numbers and that kind of logic deserves to go bankrupt.

By "we the downloaders" I meant us at GBATMW GBATEMP. That makes a few thousand out of 15 million DS consoles worldwide. And of us several thousand, some will actually buy the game, some wouldn't have bought it anyway, and what is left is really nothing. We are an insignificant percentage of the whole consumer market. Again, I'm not trying to justify my downloading, I know it's wrong, but it's not such a big deal. Really.


EDIT: Wrong forum

 

[Legend]

Ok, so let's assume then that "we, the downloaders", are a meagre 50 million people (worldwide).
The average game, we'll say, is about $30 CAD or USD. Let's say that this company made 50 million copies of this game.
It would take ONE person to backup the game onto their computer, and then 49,999,999 other people have access to it - without having to leave the comfort of their own home.
Anyone know what 49,999,999 x $30 is?


Point me to any game or film that has received that many illegal downloads.

I was throwing out an exaggerated example to illustrate a point. I doubt that 50 million people are going to download the same movie. However, go have a look at your local torrent site - see if there's a download counter. Assume that for every 1 person that downloads a movie, $10 CAD/USD is lost.
Mininova; Pirates 3.
Add up every seeder & leecher, then multiply that by $10. That's quite a bit of cash.

 

[Bowser128]

Nothing to understand, I like to have a proper copy of something thats all, its nice to have in the collection.


Ah, I see, it's easier than downloading covers, labels etc. I suppose. My mistake.

By "we the downloaders" I meant us at GBATMW.

Wrong forum Veho

 

[UncleChuckle]

to UncleChuckle

Never heard it expressed as perfectly, undeniably clear as the way you said it. Like you said, its not theft, its a copy-right violation...as in the company has the RIGHT to make COPY(ie)s of the game in question, not you, and you VIOLATE that right under whatever law you want to use as a claim.

Thank you I take issue with you saying about Tuesdays though... For Gran Turismo 4 I had to wait until Wednesday. And for GTR2 (PC race sim) I had to wait THREE WEEKS! (Though ironically, it was still a Tuesday)

I'm not saying piracy isn't illegal. It is. But it's copyright violation. Not theft. One thing the industry needs to learn: Saying something doesn't make it so.

For a long time we had these ads on our satellite system. A guy walking along. It said "This man is going to steal something". Then it shows him looking at a bike, then a car, than a handbag... Then he gets in and turns his TV on. "Stealing satellite signals is theft" was the final tagline. Well

A) How is it theft when you're basically utilizing something that is passing through your body every time you're outside?

B) NO IT ISN'T!

I actually wrote to them with the dictionary and legal definitions of theft and asked them to explain exactly how not paying for satellite TV was theft. They basically responded with "it just is". That right there is all you need to know. RIAA, MPAA, software industry... It's all the same. They've said "it's theft", and the majority have been brainwashed into believing it.

 

[Legend]

Ahem, for the record - I'm only throwing out the arguements against piracy to be a bastard.
I pirate shit all the time.

 

[Skyhunterjim]

I 'd like to note that I bought a flashcart before I even got my DSLite (didn't own the DS phat).
I have since bought 16 original carts (some just for keepsake, as I had already finished them on the M3) while having played about 40 roms.Fair ratio, I guess.
Making a profit by selling copies is the only Piracy I know.
Downloading a rom and not buying a game you enjoy indeed hurts the creator, not the publisher.
I mean, if you like the game and still don't buy it, you put all the creator's work to waste.
If you don't like it, having just tried it and realised it's a waste of bytes, I don't see that as a lost sale.

P.S: Not buying Castlevania DoS or PoR (just an example), to have to show to your kid 15 years from now, you ought to be hanged by the neck.It's a crime against our gamer community, not copyright legislation, frig that.
Same goes for New Super Mario, etc. etc. There are games you must have and then there are a few games you are NOT allowed not to have (yes, that's a double negative).

 

[UncleChuckle]

Ok, so let's assume then that "we, the downloaders", are a meagre 50 million people (worldwide).
The average game, we'll say, is about $30 CAD or USD. Let's say that this company made 50 million copies of this game.
It would take ONE person to backup the game onto their computer, and then 49,999,999 other people have access to it - without having to leave the comfort of their own home.
Anyone know what 49,999,999 x $30 is?


Point me to any game or film that has received that many illegal downloads.

I was throwing out an exaggerated example to illustrate a point. I doubt that 50 million people are going to download the same movie. However, go have a look at your local torrent site - see if there's a download counter. Assume that for every 1 person that downloads a movie, $10 CAD/USD is lost.
Mininova; Pirates 3.
Add up every seeder & leecher, then multiply that by $10. That's quite a bit of cash.

Absolute nonsense, and again peddling the argument that industry does. You're working on the theory that everyone is sitting there, twirling their villainous moustaches going "MWahaha... Now I do not have to pay to see Mister Depp!" It seems these days, when I see comments on torrents, it's mostly folk who paid to see it wanting a copy to see again until the DVD comes out. That was certainly true with "Grindhouse", "300" etc...

Again, you're work on the theory that everyone WANTS to pirate rather than purchase. In your universe, no games are sold at all and nobody pays to see movies. Quite clearly a fantasy world. Also

A) Torrent stats are notorious for being inaccurate
B) Not everyone downloading will bother finishing
C) Not everyone who finishes downloading will actually watch it anyway
D) You're example is so horribly flawed I could probably keep going all night. (Insert joke about some female relative here)

 

[ceraphis]

legend, I don't mean to start fanning the flames but $10 lost on each download is still way too high...I'd MAYBE be willing to accept about $1 in potential lost revenue tops, when you really consider how many people who download a game would have ever set foot in a store to buy it.

It's just not logical that a company would lose $10 out of every $60 game given the common sense assumption that most people pirate for much more complicated reasons than simply to not pay for a game.

Tell me how likely you think Random Bob who is bored one day in front of his computer and downloads Tamagotchi Party Animals Xtreme for the DS to pass the time, would, given its possible unavailability on the internet, go straight out to the store and purchase a copy, or ever consider buying it in his lifetime were it not available to pirate?

 

[Veho]

I was throwing out an exaggerated example to illustrate a point. I doubt that 50 million people are going to download the same movie. However, go have a look at your local torrent site - see if there's a download counter. Assume that for every 1 person that downloads a movie, $10 CAD/USD is lost.
Mininova; Pirates 3.
Add up every seeder & leecher, then multiply that by $10. That's quite a bit of cash.

But you can't really claim every one of them would have bought the movie if they weren't able to download it. At leas half of them wouldn't even consider the movie if it weren't available for download. Many of them would wait for it to be aired on TV. Many would get it at a video store (and that wouldn't constitute profit to the filmmakers anyway. There are those who have seen the movie in cinemas and just want a copy to flip through, but they wouldn't actually buy a DVD. So what you're left with is a bunch of people who just don't deem the movie interesting/good enough to be viewed in a cinema, or bought on a DVD.

The people who would have seen the movie in cinemas (or bought a DVD) are a minority among the torrent people.

And that's why you can't actually take all the downloaders, multiply their number by $[too much], and claim that as a loss. You can't honestly claim your movie/game/CD would have made that much money if it weren't for downloaders. That's just crap.

 

[OrR]

i wouldnt buy 90% of the games i d/l so most of the time the companies arnt losing my pounds

It's important that you buy the other 10%, though.

 

[Hitto]

So if everyone in the world went about making duplicate copies of everything - for free, might I add - how would people generate money? They wouldn't. In fact, why would we even need money then? We could have everything for free, right? So there's no reason for us to even have money at all!

WHEN YOU PIRATE MP3s YOU DOWNLOAD COMMUNISM!

 

[ChrisCrawford]

This arguement goes round and round forever. I think for people who really love games it's nessesary, I buy a ton of console games (figure I average 5-10 a month) I can't afford to buy DS games, so I just do what we all do. If it weren't for roms, I wouldn't be playing them at all.

For DS I only own 2 games, However I have purchased a ton of DSes for gifts for people, I own 3, and theres 5 in the household.

So it's cooler to own than to steal, and I would rather drop the money any day, and own the case, and the instructions, and all that, it's so much better, but I wouldn't be buying these games anyway so I think it matters not.

For somone with alot of extra cash laying around, who pirates, I think that's just being a cheapass.

 

[ih8crouch]

i wouldnt buy 90% of the games i d/l so most of the time the companies arnt losing my pounds

It's important that you buy the other 10%, though.

Agreed and I do most of the time

 

[UncleChuckle]

I 'd like to note that I bought a flashcart before I even got my DSLite (didn't own the DS phat).
I have since bought 16 original carts (some just for keepsake, as I had already finished them on the M3) while having played about 40 roms.Fair ratio, I guess.
Making a profit by selling copies is the only Piracy I know.
Downloading a rom and not buying a game you enjoy indeed hurts the creator, not the publisher.
I mean, if you like the game and still don't buy it, you put all the creator's work to waste.
If you don't like it, having just tried it and realised it's a waste of bytes, I don't see that as a lost sale.

P.S: Not buying Castlevania DoS or PoR (just an example), to have to show to your kid 15 years from now, you ought to be hanged by the neck.It's a crime against our gamer community, not copyright legislation, frig that.
Same goes for New Super Mario, etc. etc. There are games you must have and then there are a few games you are NOT allowed not to have (yes, that's a double negative).

So you're saying that you should buy a game, even if you hate it, because the masses think it's good? Good god, you scare me. That means I have to buy a copy of "Are We Done Yet" when it comes out on DVD because that was so immensely popular in theatres. The horror... The horror...

Poor idea too. I have kids now. They've seen the game. My Animal Crossing cart, I doubt I'll be able to play that in 20 years time. I will be able to run it on an emulator though. Why would I need the physical product? "Come here son, look at this worthless little slab of plastic that means nothing to you... Yes yes, you can go back to your "Better Than Life" VR sim in a minute... Yes, we used to play these... It's a... Look at me when I'm talking to you..."

Anyone who whips out a 15 year old video game to show their kid... That's one sad bastard. Now letting them actually play it, that's cool. (Recently introduced my 5 year old to Pacman. Fairly certain he wouldn't give two craps if I had a dead arcade machine of it in my living room. Nostalgia only works for the person who lived through it. The actual tangible experience is something else entirely.)

 

[IxthusTiger]

Absolutely not justifiable

 

[UncleChuckle]

And that's why you can't actually take all the downloaders, multiply their number by $[too much], and claim that as a loss. You can't honestly claim your movie/game/CD would have made that much money if it weren't for downloaders. That's just crap.

And yet that's pretty much exactly what these industries do.

 

[Veho]

By "we the downloaders" I meant us at GBATMW.

Wrong forum Veho

Why? What's wrong with GBATMW?

(Okay, okay, I meant GBATEMP. I'll edit it.)

QUOTE(veho @ Jun 5 2007, 02:17 PM)

And that's why you can't actually take all the downloaders, multiply their number by $[too much], and claim that as a loss. You can't honestly claim your movie/game/CD would have made that much money if it weren't for downloaders. That's just crap.

And yet that's pretty much exactly what these industries do.

Yes, but they didn't really expect to get that money. They all whine about "piracy" and over-inflate their "losses", in order to justify their lack of profit that's actually caused by crappy games

Really good games still make a ton of profit despite all the downloading in the world. Keep that in mind.

 

[Legend]

Eek! Too many arguements at once!
*RUNAWAY!*

 

[ceraphis]

lol at legend, I knew from the beginning you probably were just BSing in a way.

Seriously though, I read yesterday while traveling through my favorite tubes that there's a new mp3 out there that simultaneously gives you the clap and the ding dong fever at the same. Scary stuff.

 

[UncleChuckle]

Anyway, I believe we've exhausted this argument. Piracy is:

Illegal
NOT THEFT
Justifiable

Piracy claims from the industry are:

Nonsense
Made up
Ridiculous hyperbole

Authorities wasting resources nicking muppets for piracy are
Criminally inept
Morally reprehensible
Should be ashamed of being industry stooges

Console makers are
Stealers of patents
Hypocrites.

Right, I believe we're done. Now I have stuff to do. These DS roms aren't gonna pirate themselves are they!