Homebrew Question Is GC/Wii emulation on the Switch a stupid idea? Because it sure looks that way...

[Silent_Gunner]

From my understanding, you bring absolutely nothing to this conversation. You quote me, yet your response has absolutely NOTHING to do with what I said.

You said that Dolphin isn't up to task, and I say that to expect Dolphin to even run on the Switch is pure speculation at best as to its practicality.

Also, in a surprising fact of life, there are too many updates in this scene to really keep up with everything while people try to live their lives. One moment, .nsp is all you need for N64 emulation, then the dynarec is ready, but it's still in a beta state, hence you still need OCs, there's this new pack of atmosphere mixed with hekate mixed with ReiNX...

It'd be nice to have a well maintained database for all of this as opposed to forums that, frankly, have a lot of much ado about nothing because people have to be dramatic when, if I'm going to be honest, I just got home from a fucking 8 hour shift with enough crap going down the toilet while going to college and have enough drama in my life thank you very fucking much, so don't act all like, "HURR DURR, WHY DON'T YOU DO IT!!!???"

Frankly, I'm starting to lose my patience for this forum shit. All this has turned into is a bunch of nerds eating each other alive because they think they're the experts and know when something will be practical when it may very well not be the case. For example, hair trigger buttons aren't a big deal to me as the only games I see using those for are games of which there's no equivalent on the Switch (Metroid Prime Trilogy, anyone?) or MGS The Twin Snakes (which isn't the best remake ever made, btw). There's a big difference between being able to do something and whether it'd be a good idea for someone else to try on a consistent basis. This is part of the reason why I never want to identify as a geek/nerd/whatever, because you guys argue like it's Protestant vs. Catholicism, and I've had enough of growing up with behavior motivated by fantastical nonsense over shit that ultimately ain't important. I just figured I'd point a fact out, but then you shake your head and act like I don't contribute shit. You remind me of a co-worker who clearly didn't last at my job who told me the same thing while it was my first or second day on a part of the job that I didn't usually do at the time, and while I didn't say anything to him, I would've laughed if he tried to do my part of the job and failed and rubbed it into his face how little he contributed when in my shoes, and that he should clean his room instead of being a professional victim jealous of those of whom have achieved success!

If you can't prove yourself, don't try to talk shit, because then you end up in one of those OWNED with FACTS and LOGIC compilations on Youtube, and thus risk being put on an employment blacklist on the bottom of the barrel for job prospects that aren't retail and fast food!

 

[coffinbirth]

That part that has "double the clock speed of the switch" is the CPU, and increasing the CPU clock speed on Switch has already been shown not to cause battery bulge (even at 2ghz)

Edit: Also note. The OC test that resulted in a bulged battery had the CPU and GPU running at full speed without proper fan control in lakka

You would have to oc both the cpu and gpu to the max to achieve Shield TV clock speeds, which is exactly that, lol. That is what causes battery bulge.

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Lol @coffinbirth just got shot down by everyone in the thread.
RIP my dude.

On the other hand, it seems like the switch CPU is better than I thought, on paper overclocking it would be a death wish but it seems like people are having no trouble doing it.

ERM....no. What are you talking about? I'm stating facts, and those whom have replied directly to me were both wrong/parroting the same erroneous crap, with a healthy dose of cant comprehend words.
To achieve Shield TV speeds, i.e. the ability to emulate GC, you must max out both the cpu and gpu on Switch, which it is not capable of maintaining without damaging the components.

 

[pcwizard7]

look now that we can overclock the cpu/gpu/ram it will be possible to get a stable GC/Wii emulator like the nvidia shield tv. the emulation would needed to be ported for horizon OS the hardware isn't a problem

I can run the switch in handheld mode at oc cpu:1.5ghz / gpu: 768 Mghz / RAM: 1660 Mghz which can get doom 3 port running 60fps
I know the nvidia shield tv runs at cpu: 2.0ghz

I haven't tested docked but u might be able to push cpu little more but i wouldn't do anymore on gpu as anymore than 768 might damage it

 

[pedro702]

You would have to oc both the cpu and gpu to the max to achieve Shield TV clock speeds, which is exactly that, lol. That is what causes battery bulge.

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ERM....no. What are you talking about? I'm stating facts, and those whom have replied directly to me were both wrong/parroting the same erroneous crap, with a healthy dose of cant comprehend words.
To achieve Shield TV speeds, i.e. the ability to emulate GC, you must max out both the cpu and gpu on Switch, which it is not capable of maintaining without damaging the components.

emulators are all cpu heavy, any gpu speed is enough, they arent heavy on gpu, so just a cpu increase and it will be good, heck i bet Dsi,new3ds version of the switch will have a higher cpu speed like the previous consoles and will have some exclusive eshop stuff like gc games and such just wait and see it.

 

[nl255]

Oh my theory was that Nintendo can't make a stable Wii/Gc VC emulator for the switch yet because the CPU is limited so much.

I think you might be putting a little too much faith in the big N tbh.
But ey, assuming that Nintendo does actually have the VC on deck, then it makes sense that they would hold off until sales drop.

That is quite possible as the only way I can see such an emulator being practical is to use the same technique UltraHLE used and is also being used by Hangover (run win64/x64 programs on arm64 much faster than just running wine itself under emulation). That is, recompile or reimplement the GC/Wii SDK libraries as native Switch code and whenever a game calls one of those library functions intercept that call and use the native version instead. Of course such a thing would be extremely difficult and time consuming for anyone except Nintendo since it would mean creating a clean room reimplementation of Ninty's SDK libraries. Not to mention that any games that run on the bare metal won't ever be playable.

emulators are all cpu heavy, any gpu speed is enough, they arent heavy on gpu, so just a cpu increase and it will be good, heck i bet Dsi,new3ds version of the switch will have a higher cpu speed like the previous consoles and will have some exclusive eshop stuff like gc games and such just wait and see it.

Which is why it would probably be necessary to use high level emulation (i.e. at the api/library level rather than at the hardware level) to decrease the amount of work the CPU has to do.

 

[ZachyCatGames]

You would have to oc both the cpu and gpu to the max to achieve Shield TV clock speeds, which is exactly that, lol. That is what causes battery bulge.

You forgot a pretty important part of my post it seems:

without proper fan control in lakka

The fan speed in lakka was super slow at that time which causes the systems to get incredibly hot while using it with max OC, and lots of heat causes battery bulge, and the person that did that test had left their switch in that state for weeks/days.

Also realistically you wouldn’t need max GPU speeds for gamecube

 

[smf]

That is quite possible as the only way I can see such an emulator being practical is to use the same technique UltraHLE used and is also being used by Hangover (run win64/x64 programs on arm64 much faster than just running wine itself under emulation). That is, recompile or reimplement the GC/Wii SDK libraries as native Switch code and whenever a game calls one of those library functions intercept that call and use the native version instead.

I don't think games spend enough time in the SDK libraries to make a huge difference. Although it would make sense to HLE the Wii OS calls, because LLE emulating bluetooth & USB hardware is going to get boring.

Caching translated code is more likely to be a win, especially if don't have to do it in real time. That works better if you're Nintendo and have a QA department playing through all the game and can make sure every part is translated before you ship it, than an emulator that people can just throw random roms at.

 

[jammybudga777]

Seeing as my laptop has 2ghz processor and struggles to run the likes of dolphin at a good speed I think you lot are expecting far to much from the switch that only has 1020mhz or even overcooked/clocked 1700mhz

 

[ZachyCatGames]

Seeing as my laptop has 2ghz processor and struggles to run the likes of dolphin at a good speed I think you lot are expecting far to much from the switch that only has 1020mhz or even overcooked/clocked 1700mhz

Higher/lower clock speeds don’t automatically determine if somethings powerful/weak

 

[The Real Jdbye]

You would have to oc both the cpu and gpu to the max to achieve Shield TV clock speeds, which is exactly that, lol. That is what causes battery bulge.

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ERM....no. What are you talking about? I'm stating facts, and those whom have replied directly to me were both wrong/parroting the same erroneous crap, with a healthy dose of cant comprehend words.
To achieve Shield TV speeds, i.e. the ability to emulate GC, you must max out both the cpu and gpu on Switch, which it is not capable of maintaining without damaging the components.

With the thermal paste replaced with a better one, and the charger plugged in, it should be possible to achieve a safe stock X1 clock without any damage. That's something that those who really want the best performance possible should seriously consider doing.

 

[jammybudga777]

Higher/lower clock speeds don’t automatically determine if somethings powerful/weak

??? So what makes a device more powerful then others then?

 

[Billy Acuña]

emulators are all cpu heavy, any gpu speed is enough

This statement is partially wrong, depends if the emu is hw accelerated, like a lot. For example, mupen-next on the switch requires gpu OC in order to go max settings.

 

[ZachyCatGames]

??? So what makes a device more powerful then others then?

A variety of things that I don't remember kek. But if you think clock speeds determine how powerful a cpu is, then a 3.4ghz pentium 4 is just as powerful as a semi-recent i7 running at 3.4ghz lmao (which obviously isn't the case)

 

[jammybudga777]

I didn't say any of what your last two posts say. But the ghz of processor does help with how things run. Otherwise the requiremnts for dolphin wouldnt suggest 3ghz. None the less the switch is not powerful enough for what everyone in here is goin on about. On a very realistic level as I said we may get low end GameCube games to run. So even if it does get a release I'll stick to dolphin on my ps4 pro linux or my laptop

 

[ZachyCatGames]

I didn't say any of what your last two posts say. But the ghz of processor does help with how things run. Otherwise the requiremnts for dolphin wouldnt suggest 3ghz. None the less the switch is not powerful enough for what everyone in here is goin on about. On a very realistic level as I said we may get low end GameCube games to run. So even if it does get a release I'll stick to dolphin on my ps4 pro linux or my laptop

That clock speed requirement is for x86. ARM is very different (there are very few arm devices that run at 3ghz+)

 

[TerraPhantm]

When comparing otherwise identical processors, clock speed is a valid comparison. A 4GHz coffee lake i7 will be about 33% faster than a 3GHz coffee lake i7. You cannot make the same comparison as reliably between different processor types, let alone different architectures altogether. A 1GHz i7 would run circles around a 4GHz pentium 4 for example.

 

[Techjunky90]

Seeing as my laptop has 2ghz processor and struggles to run the likes of dolphin at a good speed I think you lot are expecting far to much from the switch that only has 1020mhz or even overcooked/clocked 1700mhz

You need to get educated on architecture

 

[Paolosworld]

Wait a man minute, for @jammybudga777 and his comment, do cpus only base preformance off of core amounts/clocks? Because I know people who have CPUs in their PCs that have the same core count and clock for everything but differ largely in price and preformance.
(Ryzen 7 1800x is significantly worse than i7-9700k, yet they have the same core/clock amount)

 

[pcwizard7]

a cpu power is also determine by what instructions, how power efferent it is, how high the clock speed can be while remaining stable.

 

[TerraPhantm]

Wait a man minute, for @jammybudga777 and his comment, do cpus only base preformance off of core amounts/clocks? Because I know people who have CPUs in their PCs that have the same core count and clock for everything but differ largely in price and preformance.
(Ryzen 7 1800x is significantly worse than i7-9700k, yet they have the same core/clock amount)

The basic factors that go into a CPU's performance are the clock speed (cycles per second), the IPC (instructions per cycle), and the core count. If a CPU were an engine, the clock speed would be like the maximum RPM, core count would be like the cylinder count, and the IPC would be like the displacement(per cylinder). All of that influences the overall power output. Where the analogy breaks down is that unlike an engine, not all applications can use multiple cores effectively. Emulators in particular tend to not effectively use more than one or two cores. So in those cases, maximizing clockspeed and IPC is the way to go.

Ryzen is generally has a lower IPC than Intel's CPUs. But generally for the same money, you can get a lot more cores with Ryzen than with Intel. So if you do a lot multitasking or your usage case is largely multithreaded applications, then Ryzen tends to give you more performance per dollar.

 

[Paolosworld]

The basic factors that go into a CPU's performance are the clock speed (cycles per second), the IPC (instructions per cycle), and the core count. If a CPU were an engine, the clock speed would be like the maximum RPM, core count would be like the cylinder count, and the IPC would be like the displacement(per cylinder). All of that influences the overall power output. Where the analogy breaks down is that unlike an engine, not all applications can use multiple cores effectively. Emulators in particular tend to not effectively use more than one or two cores. So in those cases, maximizing clockspeed and IPC is the way to go.

Ryzen is generally has a lower IPC than Intel's CPUs. But generally for the same money, you can get a lot more cores with Ryzen than with Intel. So if you do a lot multitasking or your usage case is largely multithreaded applications, then Ryzen tends to give you more performance per dollar.

Yo my dude this is kind of off topic but sence I got a new job I wanted to save up to build this fat PC rig with an 8 core CPU.

I wanna be prepared for CPU extensive stuff, like rendering 3D shit in HD, so I definitely dont wanna be skimp out on shit just to save me some cheddar.

Would you reccomend the Ryzen 2700X with a crosshair VII motherboard, or a i7 9700k with a Maximus hero?

If I go AMD then I’ll save roughly 90 bones. But fuck that if I can pull a significantly better preformance going mainstream then those 90 dollars can go eat shit.

Here are the motherboard links;

https://www.amazon.com/ROG-Maximus-Hero-Wi-Fi-Motherboard/dp/B07HCXT591/

https://www.amazon.com/ROG-Crosshair-VII-Hero-Motherboard/dp/B07CCHP1LD/

I know this post kind of derails the thread but whatever fuck that my computer comes first