Theory: Pokémon SV expected better hardware

[MayorBryce]

'The evidence? The system is much more power efficient and capable of higher clocks compared to other models.' Quoted from your first post.

That doesn't change the fact the this is completely false. Where is evidence that the released OLED is stronger then the v2 I'll wait.

You’re right. I was mistaken and I thought the OLED was capable of higher clocks compared to the other models. I know ram timings can change depending on manufactorer, but whether that is a trait shared with the v2 or not, I don’t know.

Regardless, this doesn’t change the fact is still has a lot of room to grow in performance. They could’ve upped the clocks, something they weren’t going to do to the v2. Game Freak could’ve been planning for that.

 

[ChanseyIsTheBest]

You’re right. I was mistaken and I thought the OLED was capable of higher clocks compared to the other models. I know ram timings can change depending on manufactorer, but whether that is a trait shared with the v2 or not, I don’t know.

Regardless, this doesn’t change the fact is still has a lot of room to grow in performance. They could’ve upped the clocks, something they weren’t going to do to the v2. Game Freak could’ve been planning for that.

Yeah ram timings are the same the v2 and OLED also uses same RAM chips so they are the same. If they put better PMICs in the chips Nintendo could have put in higher clocks with more tolerance for safety vs what we have now. Nintendo probably didn't want to make devs support Handheld/Docked plus two more powerful modes for both probably.

I think my biggest problem with the idea of the game running like shit because the Switch Pro existing is why don't other first party Nintendo games released along the same time run like shit? Well besides maybe Bayonetta 3. I think you can mainly attribute this one to GameFreak having poor programming. Well I guess you could argue Pokemon has an unchangeable release date or heads roll release date.

This is the same company that got rid of the Shiny Pokemom spawning sound because they couldn't stop them spawning in the walls after all... Programming isn't their forte lol

 

[ghjfdtg]

GameFreak has one of the biggest video game franchise in the world and yet they save money on the most important thing. Competent programmers and a large enough team to handle the schedule. You would think they are swimming in money and can easily afford such a team.

 

[Mayo1990]

As people already stated, no matter how good your hardware is, if you aren't a decent programmer or you use an outdated engine, which is Game Freak's case for both, you can't really expect an optimized game.

My only take on the whole SV scenario is that at some point Legends Pokémon: Arceus and Scarlet/Violet were a single project that got split in two at some point. It wouldn't make much sense to have wild multi-battles in Arceus but not in SV where you have something such as Kingambit.

Hardware-wise, the Switch is, indeed, the most weak console we have in the market right now, but we already had devs pulling some crazy optimization in there: main examples being Overwatch 2, Doom Eternal, The Witcher 3, Nier Automata and Hogwarts Legacy. But without going outside the ports route, we also have ToTK, Xenoblade 3 and Bayonetta 3.

 

[MayorBryce]

at some point Legends Pokémon: Arceus and Scarlet/Violet were a single project that got split in two at some point.

Which begs the question: why is LA so much more optimized than SV? The former looks a million times better and has better performance, while the latter pulled out all the stops and still runs terrible. Is the open world design really that much bigger and more performance intensive on the system compared to the zones in PLA? One could argue the extra few months of development time helped, but can three or so months really make it break whether a game runs well?

I’m going to need to do more research on the bottlenecks of this game.

 

[BaamAlex]

why is LA so much more optimized

Pokemon arceus looks optimized for you? Hell, no. Both aren't optimized.

 

[MayorBryce]

Pokemon arceus looks optimized for you? Hell, no. Both aren't optimized.

It’s not exactly optimized, but it’s still leagues better than SV.

 

[Jayro]

Optimization. And that's completely missing from Pokemon.

I agree. It made me REALLY upset as a New 3DS XL owner that the gen 7 games were not optimized to take advantage of the extra cores in the new hardware,s o performance suffered for no good reason. (I'm one of those weirdos that loved gen 7 (UltraSun/UltraMoon, at least) and feel it was done dirty due to laziness.

It’s not exactly optimized, but it’s still leagues better than SV.

The janky slideshow animations of things in the distance really put me off in both Arceus, and SV, but in SV it's somehow even worse. Like flags and trees also get the janky slideshow treatment when you're not even very far from them. And the funny thing is, those aren't even optimizations that really affect performance as much as poly count and lighting.

 

[MayorBryce]

I agree. It made me REALLY upset as a New 3DS XL owner that the gen 7 games were not optimized to take advantage of the extra cores in the new hardware,s o performance suffered for no good reason.

So, here's a fun fact. The n3DS systems have 4 cores, versus the 2 on o3DS systems. However, those extra cores are nearly useless. Core 0 is for games, Core 1 is for system on both consoles. Core 2, in fact, does absolutely nothing at all times; the CPU does not allocate tasks to that core. Finally, Core 3 is used for the advanced face tracking when the 3D is on - meaning when the 3D is off, or on the n2DS models, that core also goes unused!

The n3DS gets its extra performance from higher clocks, not more cores. This was probably done to maximize compatibility with o3DS games, so games ran the same on both systems. Pokemon SM & USUM ran using Extended Memory Mode on the o3DS, but I don't know if the games utilize the higher clocks or run at the same clocks on the n3DS.

This tidbit is kinda off-topic. However, it shows that when performance was on the table, they simply didn't use it.

 

[Mayo1990]

So, here's a fun fact. The n3DS systems have 4 cores, versus the 2 on o3DS systems. However, those extra cores are nearly useless. Core 0 is for games, Core 1 is for system on both consoles. Core 2, in fact, does absolutely nothing at all times; the CPU does not allocate tasks to that core. Finally, Core 3 is used for the advanced face tracking when the 3D is on - meaning when the 3D is off, or on the n2DS models, that core also goes unused!

The n3DS gets its extra performance from higher clocks, not more cores. This was probably done to maximize compatibility with o3DS games, so games ran the same on both systems. Pokemon SM & USUM ran using Extended Memory Mode on the o3DS, but I don't know if the games utilize the higher clocks or run at the same clocks on the n3DS.

This tidbit is kinda off-topic. However, it shows that when performance was on the table, they simply didn't use it.

SuMo/USUM ran at more stable framerate and had shorter loading times on New 3DS.

 

[MayorBryce]

SuMo/USUM ran at more stable framerate and had shorter loading times on New 3DS.

Correction: it does use the higher clocks. My mistake.

 

[chrisk]

How about they just lacked the skills expected from the fans?

It's just poorly coded game. That's all. Other studios can do it, they can't.

 

[BaamAlex]

Other studios can do it, they can't.

You don't even need a studio. Look at the fan-communities. They create mods and show how the game could look like. This shows how lazy game freak really is. But you're right. Their games are poorly coded.

 

[LightBeam]

Even if they had released a Switch Pro, it still would have had to run on both systems properly.

Sword and Shield were pretty ridiculous too, they could have done better but they chose to do something else.
Honestly I'm pretty sure that even on Switch 2, it would have ran and looked like shit.

The issue lies in the management, how they actually use their dev teams and their projects. They rely on contractors to develop a garbage engine that nobody knows how to use, young devs can't hope to develop a carreer into higher positions because it's filled with old people who won't budge into letting people actually making games like we should do now. Gamefreak is basically running like Konami in the sense that they're just trying to make stuff like it's the 90s.

So I don't understand the point of this argument. Even if it was true, they weren't expecting a new gen, they were just expecting some kind of refresh that wouldn't have done much anyway. That makes it obviously not true to me. Everybody knows it's because they rely on contractors because it's cheaper than actually harvesting talent in their teams.

Post automatically merged: Feb 27, 2024

This comment made me realize, how many games like BOTW and Xenoblade exist on the Switch and run as well as them?

Probably because most do know when it's not possible to have something that can run well so they work around it ? Like Bayo 3 wasn't more opened specifically because Nintendo advised them not to do it ?

It's not black magic how ToTK run. Xenoblade 2 doesn't even run that well either (haven't tried 3), you get sub 15 fps in fights because there are too many fx. ToTK and BoTW do not run perfectly all the time, neither does Age of Calamity despite the scale of the battles and the many fx, yet it still manages to be playable and enjoyable.

Metroid Prime Remastered looks incredible. Sure it's more claustrophobic but it allowed the game to look so much better.
The Witcher 3 managed to run too. Pretty much all the Panic Button ports too (Doom/Doom Eternal/Wolfenstein 2/Wolfenstein Youngblood/Apex Legends/Warframe)

Those games always have some balance between having « beautiful graphics » with more or less opened environments while having the game absolutely playable. Pokemon literally achieved NONE of that. It looks like shit, runs like shit, plays like shit.

I mean, I could have understood that they tried to fly too close to the sun if Sword & Shield were such a technical success, but it wasn't, it was shit too. But I guess the sales really made them think they made such a banger they wanted to improve on all aspects to the point of somehow making a sequel to a bad game even worse.

 

[Jayro]

I still want Gen 7 games better optimized. Are there any 30FPS mods out for it yet? I'm not expecting 60FPS, just something stable and playable.

 

[MayorBryce]

Are there any 30FPS mods out for it yet?

The game does run at 30fps? Any slow downs could also be solved by forcing the higher clocks + L2 cache. And, actually, 60FPS exists and runs well on real hardware, it's just double the game speed so it isn't really worth it.

 

[Jayro]

The game does run at 30fps? Any slow downs could also be solved by forcing the higher clocks + L2 cache. And, actually, 60FPS exists and runs well on real hardware, it's just double the game speed so it isn't really worth it.

It chugs in battle. Probably at 20FPS or less most of the time.

 

[ChanseyIsTheBest]

The game does run at 30fps? Any slow downs could also be solved by forcing the higher clocks + L2 cache. And, actually, 60FPS exists and runs well on real hardware, it's just double the game speed so it isn't really worth it.

Sun and moon and ultra sun and moon force the higher clocks and extra cache on they are new 3ds enhanced games.

 

[MayorBryce]

Sun and moon and ultra sun and moon force the higher clocks and extra cache on they are new 3ds enhanced games.

And they run fine on n3DS, unless I'm really misremembering.

It chugs in battle. Probably at 20FPS or less most of the time.

Only on o3DS, although I don't have one to test.

 

[The Catboy]

This honestly sounds like some excuses to me, ngl.
Even if any of this was true, it doesn't excuse lying about future updates, releasing DLC that lags the games more, and countless other issues that could be solved through updates.
Equally, the Switch has Doom Eternal on it.