Humble Bundle 7!

[Janthran]

I have super meat boy anyway so whatever

 

[leic7]

If I get my paycheck in time I'll probably nab it. I already own Isaac and Grimrock but I could use the Isaac DLC and I'd like Shank 2 and Dungeon Defenders.

I already saw Pretentious Hipsters: The Movie, however. Maybe now I can do my dream edit where I cut it down to a 23 minute documentary that has all the useful stuff about game developing and cut out the pretentiousness of the rest of the movie.

If you didn't know I don't have the best feelings about Indie Game: The Movie.

I don't know exactly which parts of the movie you consider to be "pretentious", but I think you're probably missing the point of the entire movie if you think it can be cut down to a 23 minute film with "all the useful stuff about game developing".

 

[Guild McCommunist]

I don't know exactly which parts of the movie you consider to be "pretentious", but I think you're probably missing the point of the entire movie if you think it can be cut down to a 23 minute film with "all the useful stuff about game developing".

Well it's just a bunch of indie devs going "THE BIG PUBLISHERS SUCK." There's literally one point where McMillen's faithful sidekick says something along the lines of "If people don't like my game, they don't like my game. I don't make games for them, I make games for me. If they want to go play their Modern Warfare and Halo, then go ahead. But those games are shit." It just oozes this nonconformist, anti-mainstream, pretentious hipsterdom.

Everything that wasn't based around the creative process I found to just be full of "WE'RE SO NONCONFORMIST." Even the way it was shot was pretentious and hipsterish.

For the record I watched this after 6 Days to Air, the documentary on the development of South Park. That was an incredibly interesting piece as it gives you a look into how the writers and developers think and just how much goes into this show.

All the people in Indie Game struck me as gigantic, class-A hipsters which I put on a level just below emos in my hierarchy of hatred.

 

[leic7]

Well it's just a bunch of indie devs going "THE BIG PUBLISHERS SUCK." There's literally one point where McMillen's faithful sidekick says something along the lines of "If people don't like my game, they don't like my game. I don't make games for them, I make games for me. If they want to go play their Modern Warfare and Halo, then go ahead. But those games are shit." It just oozes this nonconformist, anti-mainstream, pretentious hipsterdom.

Everything that wasn't based around the creative process I found to just be full of "WE'RE SO NONCONFORMIST." Even the way it was shot was pretentious and hipsterish.

For the record I watched this after 6 Days to Air, the documentary on the development of South Park. That was an incredibly interesting piece as it gives you a look into how the writers and developers think and just how much goes into this show.

All the people in Indie Game struck me as gigantic, class-A hipsters which I put on a level just below emos in my hierarchy of hatred.

But they _are_ nonconformists to the mainstream. If they don't conform to societal norms and corporate culture, they don't conform to those norms and cultures. If they think certain games that a lot of people play suck, then that's what they think. Does it hurt your feelings that someone didn't make a game that caters to you? "Pretentious" is not the right word to use here. They are just being who they are, if that somehow offends you, then that's your problem.

What I take away from this film is how incredibly personal those games are to the indie developers. Each of the featured stories is a very personal story. To an outsider such as myself, this is a rare chance to be able to see the intensely personal side of this business. "Pretentious" would imply the film was trying to make those people seem 'better' than the average person, but I don't think that's the case, because every developer featured in the film seemed...'different', and that's not exactly a positive descriptor. There were moments in the movie where I'd go, "...wow, that's intense." And I actually worried that this film was reinforcing the stereotype of a developer as a social reject who can't function like a 'normal' person. Not being able to conform to mainstream norms is not something 'cool' as you seem to think it is.

 

[chyyran]

Just thought I'd leave this here, since the HiB version of Binding of Isaac doesn't come with the vanilla version.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/113200/discussions/0/828925849328088768/

It's a launcher I wrote, so you can also play Vanilla besides Wrath of the Lamb. It also happens to patch a copy of the WotL version back to vanilla, so you can play both.

Works with the standalone version as well, but Windows only.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

But they _are_ nonconformists to the mainstream. If they don't conform to societal norms and corporate culture, they don't conform to those norms and cultures. If they think certain games that a lot of people play suck, then that's what they think. Does it hurt your feelings that someone didn't make a game that caters to you? "Pretentious" is not the right word to use here. They are just being who they are, if that somehow offends you, then that's your problem.

What I take away from this film is how incredibly personal those games are to the indie developers. Each of the featured stories is a very personal story. To an outsider such as myself, this is a rare chance to be able to see the intensely personal side of this business. "Pretentious" would imply the film was trying to make those people seem 'better' than the average person, but I don't think that's the case, because every developer featured in the film seemed...'different', and that's not exactly a positive descriptor. There were moments in the movie where I'd go, "...wow, that's intense." And I actually worried that this film was reinforcing the stereotype of a developer as a social reject who can't function like a 'normal' person. Not being able to conform to mainstream norms is not something 'cool' as you seem to think it is.

Pretentious is calling the "big developer" games "shit" and thinking a game about a block of bloody meat chasing his girlfriend made of band-aids is really some deep metaphor about how vulnerable we are on the inside.

I reject them personally because they come off as hipster cunts.

 

[leic7]

Pretentious is calling the "big developer" games "shit" and thinking a game about a block of bloody meat chasing his girlfriend made of band-aids is really some deep metaphor about how vulnerable we are on the inside.

I reject them personally because they come off as hipster cunts.

I had no idea calling the big developer games shit was one of the definitions of the word "pretentious". Learn something new every day! And I believe you've confused who had said what in the film... the one who used the word "vulnerable" was a different person from the one who called Halo/COD "shit", who again was a different person from the one whose ideas Super Meat Boy was based on... there are 3 different individuals you're talking about here ._.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

I had no idea calling the big developer games shit was one of the definitions of the word "pretentious". Learn something new every day! And I believe you've confused who had said what in the film... the one who used the word "vulnerable" was a different person from the one who called Halo/COD "shit", who again was a different person from the one whose ideas Super Meat Boy was based on... there are 3 different individuals you're talking about here ._.

Calling them "shit" and in turn claiming your own product is so deep and metaphorical is pretentious.

And McMillen used the word "vulnerable" but it was his co-developer who made his claims about Halo/CoD. Even if you don't want that example, the Fez dev essentially putting his little indie game on a development level of GTA IV is pretty damn pretentious.

 

[leic7]

Calling them "shit" and in turn claiming your own product is so deep and metaphorical is pretentious.

And McMillen used the word "vulnerable" but it was his co-developer who made his claims about Halo/CoD. Even if you don't want that example, the Fez dev essentially putting his little indie game on a development level of GTA IV is pretty damn pretentious.

No one is claiming the little indie games had the development budget or staff presence of blockbuster titles. These people just like the kind of games they make, and dislike some mainstream games. Liking smaller games more than larger games developed by more people is not a definition for "pretentious". I really think you're either not using the word properly, or you're not saying the real reason why you think they're pretentious. I mean, I don't like Halo and Call of Duty either, I think they're shit, and I prefer some of the smaller games such as Fez. Am I pretentious too?

 

[Guild McCommunist]

No one is claiming the little indie games had the development budget or staff presence of blockbuster titles. These people just like the kind of games they make, and dislike some mainstream games. Liking smaller games more than larger games developed by more people is not a definition for "pretentious". I really think you're either not using the word properly, or you're not saying the real reason why you think they're pretentious. I mean, I don't like Halo and Call of Duty either, I think they're shit, and I prefer some of the smaller games such as Fez. Am I pretentious too?

He said basically people shouldn't complain about Fez's development time when games like GTA IV took five years. First off, it's a terrible comparison since GTA IV is larger and a shitload more complex than Fez. Like they talk about how the Fez guy wrote a program or something to make the little rotating 3D blocks in Fez. Yeah, GTA IV had to build a fucking city. That's like saying that it takes a while to build a Lego version of your house because Rome was literally not built in a day. Scaling doesn't work like that.

But to draw attention to that comparison, he's comparing his little indie work to a big, ambitious game like GTA IV. The definition of pretentious is "characterized by assumption of dignity or importance." To compare your game in importance and scope to GTA IV is pretentious. To assume your game about a block of meat chasing a lump of band-aids is really about our inner vulnerability is pretentious.

As I said, there's about half an hour of solid game design insight, but the other hour of it is just nothing really related to the subject matter. It's Indie Game: The Movie, not Indie Developers: The Movie. I don't give a shit about these people honestly, I went into it to see a look into the design process, not to hear about disturbed McMillen is, how bitchy the Fez guy is, how McMillen's co-pilot is a socially awkward berrypicker who sits in waffle houses alone.

Would I say you're pretentious? Maybe, although maybe the better term here is egotistical (not for you but for the devs of the movie). They're really stroking their own egos off on their works.

Documentaries are meant to inform you on a subject matter. The subject matter here was video games, and it doesn't even spend most of its time on this. You end up learning more about a bunch of hipsters than you do on all the intricacies of the games. It felt like an episode of Real World on MTV with the title "I develop indie video games."

 

[Minox]

He said basically people shouldn't complain about Fez's development time when games like GTA IV took five years. First off, it's a terrible comparison since GTA IV is larger and a shitload more complex than Fez. Like they talk about how the Fez guy wrote a program or something to make the little rotating 3D blocks in Fez. Yeah, GTA IV had to build a fucking city. That's like saying that it takes a while to build a Lego version of your house because Rome was literally not built in a day. Scaling doesn't work like that.

But to draw attention to that comparison, he's comparing his little indie work to a big, ambitious game like GTA IV. The definition of pretentious is "characterized by assumption of dignity or importance." To compare your game in importance and scope to GTA IV is pretentious. To assume your game about a block of meat chasing a lump of band-aids is really about our inner vulnerability is pretentious.

As I said, there's about half an hour of solid game design insight, but the other hour of it is just nothing really related to the subject matter. It's Indie Game: The Movie, not Indie Developers: The Movie. I don't give a shit about these people honestly, I went into it to see a look into the design process, not to hear about disturbed McMillen is, how bitchy the Fez guy is, how McMillen's co-pilot is a socially awkward berrypicker who sits in waffle houses alone.

Would I say you're pretentious? Maybe, although maybe the better term here is egotistical (not for you but for the devs of the movie). They're really stroking their own egos off on their works.

Documentaries are meant to inform you on a subject matter. The subject matter here was video games, and it doesn't even spend most of its time on this. You end up learning more about a bunch of hipsters than you do on all the intricacies of the games. It felt like an episode of Real World on MTV with the title "I develop indie video games."

I think I mostly agree with what you're saying here. It's one thing to be proud of what you as an indie developer has created throughout numerous weeks/months/years, but to downplay and downright talk bad about bigger development operations feels really hypocritical in a sense since the only justification is that he's indie and they're not.

 

[leic7]

He said basically people shouldn't complain about Fez's development time when games like GTA IV took five years. First off, it's a terrible comparison since GTA IV is larger and a shitload more complex than Fez. Like they talk about how the Fez guy wrote a program or something to make the little rotating 3D blocks in Fez. Yeah, GTA IV had to build a fucking city. That's like saying that it takes a while to build a Lego version of your house because Rome was literally not built in a day. Scaling doesn't work like that.

But to draw attention to that comparison, he's comparing his little indie work to a big, ambitious game like GTA IV. The definition of pretentious is "characterized by assumption of dignity or importance." To compare your game in importance and scope to GTA IV is pretentious. To assume your game about a block of meat chasing a lump of band-aids is really about our inner vulnerability is pretentious.

As I said, there's about half an hour of solid game design insight, but the other hour of it is just nothing really related to the subject matter. It's Indie Game: The Movie, not Indie Developers: The Movie. I don't give a shit about these people honestly, I went into it to see a look into the design process, not to hear about disturbed McMillen is, how bitchy the Fez guy is, how McMillen's co-pilot is a socially awkward berrypicker who sits in waffle houses alone.

Would I say you're pretentious? Maybe, although maybe the better term here is egotistical (not for you but for the devs of the movie). They're really stroking their own egos off on their works.

Documentaries are meant to inform you on a subject matter. The subject matter here was video games, and it doesn't even spend most of its time on this. You end up learning more about a bunch of hipsters than you do on all the intricacies of the games. It felt like an episode of Real World on MTV with the title "I develop indie video games."

Um, why do you just assume without question that big and ambitious games like GTA are more "important" than smaller games? And "important" to whom? To you? But to me, games like GTA are less important than Fez. I don't see anything wrong with comparing the development time with other projects, because each individual would still be doing an equivalent amount of work in both big and small projects. And personally, I've learned a lot from this documentary about what goes behind making these indie games. If you don't give a shit about these people who made those games, then this film is obviously not for you. I'm sorry they didn't make their film to cater to you. You don't seem to have any problem blasting your own ego in other people's faces, though, why would you have a problem with others doing the same?

Eh, I just googled the name you mentioned, lol. Edmund McMillen, dev of Super Meat Boy... That guy just wanted to make a game that his 10-year-old self would like, he didn't really care if other people liked his games. He's not the one who wanted to connect with players on a deep level. The dev that wanted to make a deep connection with the players was Braid's dev, Jonathan Blow. He's the one who really talked about how vulnerability and flaws could connect with people, not the other guy.