Did they kill Kingdom Hearts with making too many new games?

[gamefreak94]

They killed it with KH2. Adding too many characters way too fast that they had to make newer games so the player can understand who they are.

Simple yet amazing story in the first game, and now that's gone out the window. It was a serious like story, but still cartoonish, but now they just did too much with it.

They shouldn't have made KH2 the way it was. They should have kept it simple, but yet stretch the series out to explain the organization at a steady pace instead of:

"KH1 was about Ansem... BAM here's KH2 with over 15 new characters! OH WAIT! HERE'S 358 WITH ANOTHER NEW CHARACTER! HERE'S BBS WITH 6 NEW CHARACTERS!"

They did too much, too fast, and fucked up a simple story. That's the reason why I haven't been a fan of the series since KH2. And even then, I only played that just for the gameplay, the story lost me.

Someone didn't play KH Chain of Memories....
You actually didn't really need to play 358 unless you wanted to know more about the organization and Roxas.
BBS explains the start of KH and also shows background on the Organization when they where human and why keyblade bearers are so rare nowadays.
Anyways KH is about what the title states, KINGDOM HEARTS! If you remember correctly all games had something to do with Kingdom Hearts, it wasn't just Sora going around fighting the heartless and the the nobodies.

 

[granville]

@Jakob95

Kingdom Hearts 3D takes place after KH2 and Coded. It is the newest game in the timeline. You were probably thrown off by the screens shown, which have young Sora and Riku for some reason. It was stated by the creator that there is a reason for their bodies appearing younger. It is NOT KH3, but it is intended to connect to that game. The issue with KH3 is that Versus 13 is holding it back from being made.

If you don't mind spoilers from the ending of ReCoded (WHICH IS NOT OUT YET) as well as some from BBS, it explains what is believed to be the plot of KH3D. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK AND DON'T BLAME ME FOR SPOILING-

Spoiler

In ReCoded's secret ending (added since the original Coded), it is revealed that Master Xehanort will be returning again in some form. When a heartless and a nobody are destroyed, the heart and body can potentially meet and reform once again to bring back the original self. The issue is that we don't know what form Xehanort will reform in, whether in his original old form, or his younger apprentice form. Or even what he will remember, his apprentice form lost all prior memories of his life as a keyblade master. It is also revealed that "he is not alone", meaning that there may be another new (or old) character helping him out. It is a common theory among the KH fanbase that it may be Braig.

To combat this new threat, Master Yen Sid instructs his pupil Mickey to gather Sora and Riku and bring him to his tower. He will hold a Mark of Mastery exam to attempt to make Sora and Riku keyblade masters (which apparently will bestow them new powers and knowledge, despite the fact that they are very powerful already).

In addition to this, we know the theme of the game will be "trust". Likely something to do with Sora and Riku's relationship. We also know that you will be able to play as both of them, and thus far, the developers seem to be trying to make a system where you will be given alternating control over each character at specific times (instead of BBS's character selection or COM's unlockable Reverse Rebirth). We also know there will be all new worlds (worlds being plural, meaning several new ones).

A theory as to why Sora and Riku are in their younger forms is up for speculation. Some believe it will be some sort of dream of inner consciousness. I even heard one interesting theory on how Yen Sid might pull them into a mirror world or something. Some people also noted from the trailer (that was not shown to the public) that many Soras are shown falling from the sky. It's speculated that this test will present Sora with some difficulty. It may have tests of darkness. Sora may end up failing parts of the exam (hence the "falling Sora") and Riku might end up passing it. This could also be in tune with the "trust" theme. Sora might even begin to get jealous of Riku (which is ironic because Riku was previously jealous of Sora, hence their past clashes).

Oh and then you have the new character added to the English BBS- Mysterious Figure. He's the new secret boss, and hard as hell. Dressed in an organization cloak, he backwards wields two blue lightsaber-like blades (not unlike Xemnas). He also drops a clock-based keyblade, meaning there may be some sort of time travel involved in the series' future. He shares attacks from many different characters, including most of the organization, one of Ven's command styles, and Vanitas and Master Xehanort. He could be anybody, and a huge mystery. Unknown what game he will reappear in, whether it's 3DS or what. But he WILL be in a future game.

Of course, this is all speculation in regards to the story. But fans have been known to get things right before games have come out (they predicted parts of Vanitas' identity when we first heard his voice, and people were sure of Terra's fate from the first time they saw the gathering secret ending in KH2FM). Take everything with a grain of salt though.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

They killed it with KH2. Adding too many characters way too fast that they had to make newer games so the player can understand who they are.

Simple yet amazing story in the first game, and now that's gone out the window. It was a serious like story, but still cartoonish, but now they just did too much with it.

They shouldn't have made KH2 the way it was. They should have kept it simple, but yet stretch the series out to explain the organization at a steady pace instead of:

"KH1 was about Ansem... BAM here's KH2 with over 15 new characters! OH WAIT! HERE'S 358 WITH ANOTHER NEW CHARACTER! HERE'S BBS WITH 6 NEW CHARACTERS!"

They did too much, too fast, and fucked up a simple story. That's the reason why I haven't been a fan of the series since KH2. And even then, I only played that just for the gameplay, the story lost me.

Someone didn't play KH Chain of Memories....
You actually didn't really need to play 358 unless you wanted to know more about the organization and Roxas.
BBS explains the start of KH and also shows background on the Organization when they where human and why keyblade bearers are so rare nowadays.
Anyways KH is about what the title states, KINGDOM HEARTS! If you remember correctly all games had something to do with Kingdom Hearts, it wasn't just Sora going around fighting the heartless and the the nobodies.

Yeah I did. But what I'm saying is they could have added that as a PS2 game and title it Kingdom Hearts 2, and make it a big story like game like the first game. And make Kingdom Hearts 2 and Kingdom Hearts 3.

 

[gamefreak94]

They killed it with KH2. Adding too many characters way too fast that they had to make newer games so the player can understand who they are.

Simple yet amazing story in the first game, and now that's gone out the window. It was a serious like story, but still cartoonish, but now they just did too much with it.

They shouldn't have made KH2 the way it was. They should have kept it simple, but yet stretch the series out to explain the organization at a steady pace instead of:

"KH1 was about Ansem... BAM here's KH2 with over 15 new characters! OH WAIT! HERE'S 358 WITH ANOTHER NEW CHARACTER! HERE'S BBS WITH 6 NEW CHARACTERS!"

They did too much, too fast, and fucked up a simple story. That's the reason why I haven't been a fan of the series since KH2. And even then, I only played that just for the gameplay, the story lost me.

Someone didn't play KH Chain of Memories....
You actually didn't really need to play 358 unless you wanted to know more about the organization and Roxas.
BBS explains the start of KH and also shows background on the Organization when they where human and why keyblade bearers are so rare nowadays.
Anyways KH is about what the title states, KINGDOM HEARTS! If you remember correctly all games had something to do with Kingdom Hearts, it wasn't just Sora going around fighting the heartless and the the nobodies.

Yeah I did. But what I'm saying is they could have added that as a PS2 game and title it Kingdom Hearts 2, and make it a big story like game like the first game. And make Kingdom Hearts 2 and Kingdom Hearts 3.

Huh? So what your saying is that Chain of Memories should be KH2 and KH2 should be KH3?
Then where the hell does KH 358 and BBS go?

Edit: And they did make Chain of Memories for the ps2. Its called RE:Chain of Memories....

 

[ShadowSoldier]

NO! Fuck sakes, you know what never mind. It's going to be damn near impossible trying to talk to KH fans.

 

[granville]

The issue with Chain of Memories is that it's not a very fun game. There's plenty of filler in the series, but COM has some of the worst. At the same time though, it was necessary to the story. Shame they couldn't make the disney memory worlds more interesting and relevant to the story.

@ShadowSoldier

I am afraid that you're making very little sense though. And attacking people over your lack of sense is not a very mature thing to do. Don't get angry at other people just because you're having trouble forming words from what you think. It certainly does look like you're trying to say Chain of Memories should be a main numbered game in the series. The problem is that it was a game that is supposed to link two games together. It doesn't have that certain level of design that makes it a main game in the series.

Thus far, there are only three KH games that are considered numbered titles- KH1, KH2, and BBS. BBS is cited as being "Kingdom Hearts 0" per say. It's a prequel, and explains a LOT about things that led into the main series. It probably has the least amount of useless fluff of any game in the series as well.

I wouldn't have been above looking up cutscenes of Chain of Memories just to understand the story, it has a lot of plot relevance but i really didn't think the game was too fun due to the useless filler worlds. I did play and beat Days though. I actually enjoyed the slow pace of the story and dark nature things took. It wasn't a happy game, it was a game about very cruel and (literally) heartless people who wish to cause destruction to get to their goals of becoming whole. I understand many people won't enjoy it, but i did.

Of course, i do happen to be a fan. I won't overlook the flaws in the series, but i do understand the story. Not much that confuses me about it. And the amount of characters has never bothered me. It's just a shame the worlds you visit can't be more populated. If anything, there's a LACK of characters, but the NPC kind. I wish they could have put more people just randomly walking around the worlds. Having only 2 people or so in a single world makes it feel deserted and desolate. Twilight Town was the most populated world i can think of, and it felt better due to that.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

I am saying it should be a numbered game. It should be a main game. It should be KH2, except as a much bigger adventure and not just a memories thing. And KH2 should be KH3.

Man, I apologize, I totally fucked up before. But hopefully this will clear it up, THIS is what I think should be.

Kingdom Hearts 1 => Kingdom Hearts 1.
Chain of Memories => Kingdom Hearts 2.
Kingdom Hearts 2 => Kingdom Hearts 3.

Because that way, it would have gradually introduced all the new characters, instead of people who just went from 1 to 2 and got bombarded with the new characters.

 

[Jakob95]

I am saying it should be a numbered game. It should be a main game. It should be KH2, except as a much bigger adventure and not just a memories thing. And KH2 should be KH3.

Man, I apologize, I totally fucked up before. But hopefully this will clear it up, THIS is what I think should be.

Kingdom Hearts 1 => Kingdom Hearts 1.
Chain of Memories => Kingdom Hearts 2.
Kingdom Hearts 2 => Kingdom Hearts 3.

Because that way, it would have gradually introduced all the new characters, instead of people who just went from 1 to 2 and got bombarded with the new characters.

With your logic it should be.
Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep => Kingdom Hearts 1.
Kingdom Hearts 1 => Kingdom Hearts 2
Kingdom Hearts Chain of memory => Kingdom Hearts 3
Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days => Kingdom hearts 4
Kingdom Hearts 2 => Kingdom Hearts 5
Kingdom Hearts Coded => Kingdom Hearts 6

 

[granville]

In that case, i'm inclined to agree with ShadowSoldier. Chain of Memories could have been so much better, and had it been, would have made a fine numbered game. I don't think i feel so great about the combat in general though. The only card-based game i tolerate in general is actually Megaman Battle Network series (funny huh?)

The deck system in BBS has the most refined combat IMO, Chain of Memories would have been quite fun with it. And i agree on your big adventure thing. The memory worlds just felt so bland. I actually disliked the room customizations. I'd have preferred they kept the card element out of the gameplay and left it to the story progression (or find a better way to deal with it, like charms for unlocking memories). I found the story in the main cutscenes rather intriguing.

Take a chill pill Jakob, no need to be a smartass. The series could have done with trimming some of the fat from many of those games. 358/2 Days i'd probably add some more excitement and interesting bits too. I found it fun, but i can see it's a bit too slow paced for its own good. Nice multiplayer though. It would have been neat to have some mission in hollow bastion where you are helping to build parts of the cavern of remembrance. The Deep Dive scene was underwhelming, needed a better final battle.

Coded was mostly useless. Gameplay in ReCoded is at least quite fun, but the story is 90% filler. They could have solved the entire plot with a simple message (which they did actually, that's the note Sora receives in KH2). As it is, ReCoded at least has fun gameplay. But the story is rather useless.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

I am saying it should be a numbered game. It should be a main game. It should be KH2, except as a much bigger adventure and not just a memories thing. And KH2 should be KH3.

Man, I apologize, I totally fucked up before. But hopefully this will clear it up, THIS is what I think should be.

Kingdom Hearts 1 => Kingdom Hearts 1.
Chain of Memories => Kingdom Hearts 2.
Kingdom Hearts 2 => Kingdom Hearts 3.

Because that way, it would have gradually introduced all the new characters, instead of people who just went from 1 to 2 and got bombarded with the new characters.

With your logic it should be.
Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep => Kingdom Hearts 1.
Kingdom Hearts 1 => Kingdom Hearts 2
Kingdom Hearts Chain of memory => Kingdom Hearts 3
Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days => Kingdom hearts 4
Kingdom Hearts 2 => Kingdom Hearts 5
Kingdom Hearts Coded => Kingdom Hearts 6

...No?

358 and Coded are just side stories. They're not crucial to the story, but yet CoM is.

It should have been a full fledge game like KH1 instead of it just being "go through all these levels again and get cards" and whatever. Because of the way it was, it felt like it was a Side Story. It should have been on the same caliber as 1 and 2. But it wasn't. The rest are fine as they are. And yes, I know BbS is crucial to the story.

 

[notmeanymore]

I am saying it should be a numbered game. It should be a main game. It should be KH2, except as a much bigger adventure and not just a memories thing. And KH2 should be KH3.

Man, I apologize, I totally fucked up before. But hopefully this will clear it up, THIS is what I think should be.

Kingdom Hearts 1 => Kingdom Hearts 1.
Chain of Memories => Kingdom Hearts 2.
Kingdom Hearts 2 => Kingdom Hearts 3.

Because that way, it would have gradually introduced all the new characters, instead of people who just went from 1 to 2 and got bombarded with the new characters.

With your logic it should be.
Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep => Kingdom Hearts 1.
Kingdom Hearts 1 => Kingdom Hearts 2
Kingdom Hearts Chain of memory => Kingdom Hearts 3
Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days => Kingdom hearts 4
Kingdom Hearts 2 => Kingdom Hearts 5
Kingdom Hearts Coded => Kingdom Hearts 6

Uhh no. If Devil May Cry can have higher-numbered prequels, so can Kingdom Hearts.

What he was getting at is the act of having a number. Every game (aside from BBS) that's more of a side story than a main game was unnumbered. The other games are semi-optional. "Semi" because you really are better off playing them and getting the story. CoM's story isn't optional, but the gameplay makes the whole game optional.

Offtopic: Chain of Memories was worse on the PS2 than GBA.

 

[gamefreak94]

I am hoping that you guys notice the pattern of the games right...
KH= Sony
CoM= Nintendo
KH2=Sony
358=Nintendo
BBS=Sony
KH3D=Nintendo
RE: games do not count. As you can see, the two main branches that got Square(Or should i say FF) started are taking turns on this series. And it seems only Square didn't feel like making CoM for the GCN.

 

[tatripp]

The original Kingdom hearts was supposed to be a fun game with final fantasy and disney characters together. The main focus was on game play rather than story. Just like when square enix made super mario rpg (that game was fun and pretty much nothing from that story including characters have never been in another mario game since). Kingdom hearts 2 went off the deep end. If you just picked up the game and started playing from kindom hearts 2 you would be completely lost. They added a whole bunch of stuff which took away from the cute/fun aspect and made it more like a final fantasy game. The only way to understand the story was to play the gba game which was very stupid and it's story didn't make sense. Every game after the gba one and kh2 are only trying to fix the broken storyline. Every game solves a few mysteries but creates hundreds more. They know there is no hope for the story so they decide to drag it on as long as possible and make it as complex as possible.

In KH1 you fight ansem. in kh2 you realize that it wasn't really ansem, but his heartless (even though he looks different than any other heartless). Then you find out that there is some crazy organization which is run by nobodies (who weren't even introduced in the first one). The big cheese is xeonort who is ansem's heartless. Then you find out that ansem isn't really ansem, he is ansem's assistant or something.

In kh1 sora had to have some crazy gummi ship to travel to worlds. In bbs the keyblades just turn into space ships, hoverboards, or hoverschooters. Their keyblade also gives them armor apparently. Also there are thousands or millions of keyblades in some desert somewhere.

Oh and what was up with keybaldes in the first place. The keyblade chose sora. Then riku took it. then riku eventually gets his own (idk why). Then mickey mouse also has a keyblade. Why the heck does kairi have a keyblade too like in kh2?

also axel who is a nobody and thus doesn't have a heart, sacrifices himself to save sora which is not possible because he doesn't have a heart.

I love the games but the story is dog crap. It is even more confusing that tales of symphonia 2 which had one of the worst and confusing stories imaginable.

 

[notmeanymore]

I am hoping that you guys notice the pattern of the games right...
KH= Sony
CoM= Nintendo
KH2=Sony
358=Nintendo
BBS=Sony
KH3D=Nintendo
RE: games do not count. As you can see, the two main branches that got Square(Or should i say FF) started are taking turns on this series. And it seems only Square didn't feel like making CoM for the GCN.

I hope KH follows FF's pattern in that future Sony games become "Sony/MS" games. I really don't want to buy a PS3 JUST for Kingdom Hearts but I will if I have to. :| I already bought a PSP for BBS.

 

[Sylar1]

Can anyone explain why one of the main characters in BBS literally looks just like roxas, but with a different name, i assume he is an anscestor or something, but it's like they just took a main guy and just changed his name.

 

[notmeanymore]

Can anyone explain why one of the main characters in BBS literally looks just like roxas, but with a different name, i assume he is an anscestor or something, but it's like they just took a main guy and just changed his name.

There's another doppelganger of a main character in BBS later in the story. Once you see him, you'll realize it can't be a coincidence or just re-use. (Plus, as also seen in the game, it's impossible to be ancestry since Sora is alive at the time of BBS.) I haven't played the final episode yet so I couldn't give you an explanation as to why. (if one is even given)

 

[Sylar1]

Can anyone explain why one of the main characters in BBS literally looks just like roxas, but with a different name, i assume he is an anscestor or something, but it's like they just took a main guy and just changed his name.

There's another doppelganger of a main character in BBS later in the story. Once you see him, you'll realize it can't be a coincidence or just re-use. (Plus, as also seen in the game, it's impossible to be ancestry since Sora is alive at the time of BBS.) I haven't played the final episode yet so I couldn't give you an explanation as to why. (if one is even given)

Ah, so are just they cloning sora/roxas or some crap? And here i thought they could make a KH game without Sora/Roxas, then BBS came out

 

[jackdanielchan]

Adding the Organization in my opinion benefited the games and also had negative effects as well, but the negatives completely outweigh the positives... In the end, all are killed off anyway apart from Roxas (Namine doesn't count), but because now the prequel BBS, relied upon parts of this it had to become an intricate plot device... This also gave a reason to have a sequel after KH 2, which runs off these fillers and kind of ruins it...

 

[ShadowSoldier]

Ventus, the blonde kid in Birth by Sleep, was fighting. He was fighting his dark side who was using the Ki-Blade, and Ventus couldn't destroy his dark side. So Ventus decided to destroy the Ki-Blade. Which put them two together or something, it's been a while since I played. But anyways, Ventus didn't die, he was put into a coma like state, and he sent his spirit if you want to call it that, to Sora. And he said "Can I stay with you for a while".

That's why the Keyblade chose Sora because of Ventus was inside his heart. And after Sora became a heartless, instead of the heartless looking like Sora, it looked like Ventus because of Ventus being in Sora's heart.

At least that's what I got out of it.

But... where Ventus' body even is now, no idea.

 

[Xale]

Ventus' body is somewhere inside Castle Oblivion, but since Sora sealed the keyhole to that world, ive no clue what happened to it. Maybe it turned back into the Land of Departure, who knows?