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Can Donald Trump become President Again?

smf

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as a quick reminder, the state has three basic responsibilities - creating, executing and enforcing law (legislature, executive branches, law enforcement, judiciary etc.), defending citizens from internal (police) and external (military) threats and creating an environment wherein citizens can engage in commerce (infrastructure, legal tender, so on and so forth). Those are the main interests of the government, I’ll let you figure out if that includes “police and fire fighters” or not.
As a quick reminder, you were asked what tax you would be prepared to pay and you said you only wanted to pay for services rendered.

So you can't go back now and retrospectively amend your answer now that someone pointed out a fatal flaw & pretend you meant it all along.

It's not my job to figure out your position.

I am using it not only when I actively call the police - I am using it all the time, just passively.

Like healthcare, or whatever else the government tax you for. You just have a hate boner for some taxes that you deem bad, while love taxes that meet your prejudices.
 
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Foxi4

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As a quick reminder, you were asked what tax you would be prepared to pay and you said you only wanted to pay for services rendered.

So you can't go back now and retrospectively amend your answer now that someone pointed out a fatal flaw & pretend you meant it all along.

It's not my job to figure out your position.
Your lack of understanding of basic English isn’t my problem. The only fatal flaw here is in your reading comprehension, and you display it consistently in this subforum. As a side note, I specifically said “as a general rule”, which signifies a trend or preference, it’s not strict. I never said “only” - you did. This means that even if what you said was correct (it isn’t), your point would still be moot - my specific wording does not exclude exceptions.
Like healthcare, or whatever else the government tax you for. You just have a hate boner for some taxes that you deem bad, while love taxes that meet your prejudices.
Incorrect. The government is not in control of disease like it is in control of law - disease is a part of the natural order, we’re just coping with it. It *only* affects the sick patient - it makes no difference to me whether you’re healthy or sick, and it is not my responsibility to ensure that you receive medical care. Your own well-being is *your* responsibility. I’m not in charge of your habits, your diet or any of the other circumstances that affect your health, and neither is the government - that’s on you. For instance, if you want to eat a Big Mac every single day, you’re welcome to do so, but don’t ask me to pay for your triple bypass. Tending to your base biological needs is your responsibility, not mine - I don’t know you or care about you. You should pay for your own medical care in the same way as you pay for your food, water and shelter.

On the flip side, to give an example of a fair tax, a road tax is perfectly okay - we all use roads, either actively with our vehicles or passively by engaging in commerce (this is a big brain concept, but hear me out - in order for goods to be on store shelves, someone needs to transport them, presumably with a truck, which happens to require roads). The road tax is calculated fairly - it’s derived as a portion of the tax paid on fuel, which in the consumer sector is primarily used to power motor vehicles. The users of roads pay proportionally to how much they use them, based on their fuel consumption (a big truck chugs through a bit more fuel than a sedan, I assure you). A road, by its very definition, is a shared public space that we all pay the upkeep for and are all entitled to use.

Very simple stuff, unless you’re you and you choose to pretend not to understand the basics. Then again, it’s not certain that you’re pretending, given the aforementioned consistency in lack of understanding.
 
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smf

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Your lack of understanding of basic English isn’t my problem. The only fatal flaw here is in your reading comprehension, and you display it consistently in this subforum. As a side note, I specifically said “as a general rule”,
Oh wow, so you basically cluster fucked your way through an argument and are now rewriting it because you got caught.

I thought you were dishonest in your arguments, but not this bad.

I know when I'm on to something when you start insulting. We all see it, you are a joke.

ps. I stopped reading at this point of your post because frankly why waste my time watching you proving the dunning kruger effect

If you want to be an asshole to people then don't fuck up as much as you did here. You'll find that people are more forgiving of your inability to explain your position, if you actually developed a personality that wasn't so grotesque (you would probably change your political viewpoint too).
 

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ps. I stopped reading
Good. I would say “quit while you’re ahead”, but you’re way behind, so I won’t. No “rewrites”, just you failing to read and getting flustered, as per usual. Maybe if you were less pedantic and more inquisitive, you wouldn’t be confused nearly as often. As far as the Dunning-Kruger effect is concerned, you must own a lot of smashed mirrors.
The more healthy a population is, the less chance they got in getting others sick, like covid for example. Not to mention, more productivity.
I’m interested in the individual, not the collective. If individuals are well-off in general, so will the collective, but the opposite isn’t necessarily true. You can keep the entirety of the population healthy, well-fed and “productive” through tyranny, but the cost is too great. There’s a healthy middle ground between anarchy and total control, we just disagree where that point actually is. To my eye, people would be equally motivated to remain healthy regardless of whether the option is public or private - that’s not the barrier to entry in this discussion. The barrier is affordability, and the prices are inflated specifically because a large portion of the payers in the system are corporations (via employer-based insurance) and not private individuals. Insurance companies aren’t competing over *your* dollar, they’re competing over the dollar of huge conglomerates that have very different interests compared to you, and much deeper pockets. Big discussion - one that we’ve had in the past.
 

smf

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Good. I would say “quit while you’re ahead”,
And other things losers say.

Maybe next time you shouldn't rely on insults to bolster a terrible argument. That is too much to ask it seems.

You were asked, you didn't want to expand your point and now it's too late. Don't blame others for your bad judgement.

Not only do you want to back peddle, you want others to back peddle for you.

BTW you seem to be straying way off topic.

The more healthy a population is, the less chance they got in getting others sick, like covid for example. Not to mention, more productivity.
Which is why you convince people that covid isn't real and that the things that prevent covid are evil. The right wing are so stupid they don't realize they were weaponized.

It's amazing how some people will justify risking peoples lives to save some money. We saw that with tobacco and more recently with the opioid crisis.

I figure Trump could become president again because there are enough dumb people.

An interesting article on the subject.

https://aninjusticemag.com/liberals-cant-wrap-their-brains-around-the-trump-supporter-d12f0cd75af6
 
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Foxi4

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And other things losers say.

Maybe next time you shouldn't rely on insults to bolster a terrible argument. That is too much to ask it seems.

You were asked, you didn't want to expand your point and now it's too late. Don't blame others for your bad judgement.

Not only do you want to back peddle, you want others to back peddle for you.

BTW you seem to be straying way off topic.
I’ve expanded the answer not once, but twice now. Your buddy @Reiten didn’t seem to have any trouble understanding the clarification - you’re the only person here who still appears clueless (there’s a very good chance that he still disagrees with me, but he understands the position - you don’t, which is odd). To be fair, it does suit you. For the record, I’m not “insulting you” - I am making a judgement regarding your ability to read based on the available evidence. I’m not calling you names in order to hurt your feelings - your feelings are immaterial to me. I’m questioning your abilities because you’ve shown no evidence of prowess thus far. If you have a habit of being silly on the Internet, you should expect to be treated accordingly. Oh, and it’s “backpedal”. You’re welcome.
 
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kenlee168

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Althou Trump might be able to save America economically, with him as the President will likely trigger both side and creates dramas and more impeachment hoax. He might be hardworking and always eager to succeed where dem failed but he is overly trolling at media and pelosi/aoc/oman will only drive haters to go more extreme .
He hinting/trolling russia to reveal biden crime record will backfire more than do him any good.
 
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FAST6191

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with him as the President will likely trigger both side and creates dramas and more impeachment hoax
Muck slinging/muck raking has been a concept in news media and political strategy for... easily decades but we can go way further back. It is employed in everything from local elections for simple job posts on up whenever I have been in the US, and when your percentages to win or lose are marginal in the vast majority of places then there is massive incentive to use every trick.

Gloves these days seem to be well and truly off (see also how they treat family members, even those not acting as advisors) and the public equally does not give a damn (or at least those under about 63 don't*) or enough of one to matter, soundbite politics (though depending upon your age then headline politics/campaigning or [some twitter related term] may substitute) has been the order of the day for decades now... What incentives or chance do you give of it going all "well my esteemed colleague across the aisle has a point but my analysis of the scenario says costs of the project are likely to be 30% higher, I would instead direct the funds at this alternative project to help the people"?


*any illusions that politicos were special in the US had to have died in 1977 with Frost-Nixon (18 year olds then being 63 today, if we bump that to the 30 or so that people start voting in and... yeah), and probably way earlier than that (Battle of Athens being what 1946, Heuy Long being clipped in 1935).
 

Dark_Ansem

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2. Google what the phrase “known quantity” means before commenting further, we’re not going through this again. Trust me, I’m doing you a solid.
And by "solid" you mean further embarassment to yourself.
1. By all objective measures your L keeps increasing in size. I don’t know why you keep dragging this out - you can just admit that you didn’t understand the difference between equal vs. equitable and now you do, or you can drop it altogether to avoid drawing attention to your boo-boo. No shame in either option, but there’s *a lot* of shame in what you’re doing right now. It’s amusing, don’t get me wrong, but it’s a bad look for you. I don’t get this bit. Is this a bit?
You keep mystifying and lying about this so no, I'm not gonna let it rest, because the habit of libertarians of lying must be called out, even more so when so blatantly.
2. It’s not a public service in any sense, the insurance requirement does not remove competition in the field of healthcare providers. In fact, they’re two entirely separate business sectors.
Once again, I never even remotely implied this, but somehow you decided that is what I meant, just like your previous dead cat debacle.
Oh wow, so you basically cluster fucked your way through an argument and are now rewriting it because you got caught.

I thought you were dishonest in your arguments, but not this bad.
That is, in fact, what libertarians do: derail and then claim that somehow this is what was meant all along.

anyway, I am once again proud of how sidetracked the topic became from trumpo to Swiss healthcare and crime rates.
Althou Trump might be able to save America economically, with him as the President will likely trigger both side and creates dramas and more impeachment hoax.
LOL the guy who almost triped public debt, who went bust what, 5 times and whose brand keeps failing even for social networks could not "save economically" a piss-up in a brewery let alone America. You're ridiculous.
 

Foxi4

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And by "solid" you mean further embarassment to yourself.

You keep mystifying and lying about this so no, I'm not gonna let it rest, because the habit of libertarians of lying must be called out, even more so when so blatantly.
We all have scroll wheels. It doesn’t really matter, you’ll drop it eventually anyway.
Once again, I never even remotely implied this, but somehow you decided that is what I meant, just like your previous dead cat debacle.
You called it a public service in everything but the name. Your words, not mine. It’s not a public service, in name or any other way. A mandate on insurance does not make healthcare coverage public, unless you also want to claim that mandatory car insurance makes mechanics public. In other words, what you said made no sense, I just pointed it out. You were probably trying to make some kind of awkward point about it being universal - that’s correct, everyone is insured, except nobody argued that they weren’t, so… fighting windmills again.
That is, in fact, what libertarians do: derail and then claim that somehow this is what was meant all along.
I’m not in your head, nor would I venture there without a detailed map, judging by the amount of spaghetti you’re spilling here. I can only operate on what you post - if what you post makes no sense, I’m going to point that out.
anyway, I am once again proud of how sidetracked the topic became from trumpo to Swiss healthcare and crime rates.
It’s almost as if political platforms were multifaceted.
LOL the guy who almost triped public debt, who went bust what, 5 times and whose brand keeps failing even for social networks could not "save economically" a piss-up in a brewery let alone America. You're ridiculous.
Democratic Congress tripled the debt - the President doesn’t hold the power of the purse. Tax revenues hit record highs under Trump - I’m sorry that the COVID relief package and other assorted unexpected spending melted that away. As far as his private ventures are concerned, 5 businesses going bust out of around 500 under the Trump umbrella is a pretty stellar track record.
 

Dark_Ansem

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You called it a public service in everything but the name. Your words, not mine. It’s not a public service, in name or any other way. A mandate on insurance does not make healthcare coverage public, unless you also want to claim that mandatory car insurance makes mechanics public. In other words, what you said made no sense, I just pointed it out.
Do you know the expression "in everything but name" or "in name only"? The idea originally comes from Shakespeare.
We all have scroll wheels. It doesn’t really matter, you’ll drop it eventually anyway.
We do, so you'd best be careful with those stones in that glass house of yours.
I’m not in your head, nor would I venture there without a detailed map, judging by the amount of spaghetti you’re spilling here. I can only operate on what you post - if what you post makes no sense, I’m going to point that out.
casual racism now as well? Besides, it's all fine and dandy, I'm going to point out your several inaccuracies and lies too.
Democratic Congress tripled the debt - the President doesn’t hold the power of the purse. Tax revenues hit record highs under Trump - I’m sorry that the COVID relief package and other assorted unexpected spending melted that away. As far as his private ventures are concerned, 5 businesses going bust out of around 500 under the Trump umbrella is a pretty stellar track record.
the guy went bust what, 5 times? Assuming he kept 500 ventures each time, that means 495 out of 2500 across 20 years isn't what I'd call a "stellar track record". And before you throw another of your useless platitudes, this is called a hyperbole. Or are you going to deny his several bankruptcies?

Democratic congress LMAO yeah, because the Congress introduced the TCJA? ah no wait, that was Trump! In 2020 the debt to GDP ratio was the highest since WW2, was that somehow Biden's fault as well?

It's so ridiculous that you keep pointing about that ridiculous "tax revenue" strawman, when cost of life became impossible. It's like saying. Not to mention, Trump’s tax cuts, especially the sharp reduction in the corporate tax rate to 21% from 35%, took a big bite out of federal revenue. The CBO estimated in 2018 that the tax cut would increase deficits by about $1.9 trillion over 11 years.

Meanwhile, Trump’s claim that increased revenue from the tariffs would help eliminate (or at least reduce) our national debt hasn’t panned out. In 2018, Trump’s administration began hiking tariffs on aluminum, steel and many other products, launching what became a global trade war with China, the European Union and other countries.

The tariffs did bring in additional revenue. In fiscal 2019, they netted about $71 billion, up about $36 billion from President Barack Obama’s last year in office. But although $36 billion is a lot of money, it’s less than 1/750th of the national debt. That $36 billion could have covered a bit more than three weeks of interest on the national debt — that is, had Trump not unilaterally decided to send a chunk of the tariff revenue to farmers affected by his trade wars. Businesses that struggled as a result of the tariffs also paid fewer taxes, offsetting some of the increased tariff revenue.

By early 2019, the national debt had climbed to $22 trillion. Trump’s budget proposal for 2020 called it a “grave threat to our economic and societal prosperity” and asserted that the U.S. was experiencing a “national debt crisis.” However, that same budget proposal included substantial growth in the national debt.

By the end of 2019, the debt had risen to $23.2 trillion and more federal officials were sounding the alarm. “Not since World War II has the country seen deficits during times of low unemployment that are as large as those that we project — nor, in the past century, has it experienced large deficits for as long as we project,” Phillip Swagel, director of the CBO, said in January 2020.

Weeks later, COVID-19 erupted and made the financial situation far worse. As of Dec. 31, 2020, the national debt had jumped to $27.75 trillion, up 39% from $19.95 trillion when Trump was sworn in. The government ended its 2020 fiscal year with the portion of the national debt owed to investors, the metric favored by the CBO, at around 100% of GDP. The CBO had predicted less than a year earlier that it would take until 2030 to reach that approximate level of debt. Including the trillions owed to various governmental trust funds, the total debt is now about 130% of GDP.

Trump had the third-biggest primary deficit growth, 5.2% of GDP, behind only George W. Bush (11.7%) and Abraham Lincoln (9.4%). Bush, of course, not only passed a big tax cut, as Trump has, but also launched two wars, which greatly inflated the defense budget. Lincoln had to pay for the Civil War. By contrast, Trump’s wars have been almost entirely of the political variety.

Trump challenged Congress to spend — and borrow — even more. Then he went golfing.

But sure, stellar success in economics because of what, tax peanut money not paired by cost of life conditions? like pissing at a house on fire, fire set by the same guy pissing at it BTW.
 

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Do you know the expression "in everything but name" or "in name only"? The idea originally comes from Shakespeare.
Oh, I’m aware, and I know what it means, I just don’t think you do. “In everything but the name” means a given “thing” has all the qualities of another “thing”, but it’s called something else, usually for some kind of formal reason.
To illustrate this I’ll use one of the examples provided by Merriam-Webster.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/in all/everything but name

Let’s say that you have a “married” couple, but they’ve been separated for years. The husband and wife don’t live with each other, they don’t share income or expenses, they don’t love each other or interact in any meaningful way. In this scenario you could say that ”their marriage is over in all but the name” even though formally they’re not divorced. They’re technically still married, but they have nothing in common with a married couple besides the name. They show all the qualities of a divorced couple, but they’re not divorced. You can push the term a little bit to describe a foregone conclusion. Very simple stuff.
The term is not applicable here because this system has no qualities in common with public healthcare. The providers are private, the insurance companies are private, patients pay out of pocket as opposed to via tax, the only element introduced by the government is the mandate - a requirement to purchase insurance. That doesn’t make it “public in all but the name” and arguing otherwise is silly. You’re not getting the same end result under a different name, what you are getting is universality, which is a completely different discussion. Access is universal, but not because it’s “public” in any way.
We do, so you'd best be careful with those stones in that glass house of yours.
I don’t really have a response. This debacle is all yours.
casual racism now as well? Besides, it's all fine and dandy, I'm going to point out your several inaccuracies and lies too.
I don’t think you’ve managed to accurately recognise one idiom or turn of phrase so far.
Let me help - to “spill spaghetti (out of one’s pockets)” is common internet slang that denotes finding yourself in an awkward situation and getting flustered/embarrassed after doing/saying something silly. The term originates from a genre of famous copypastas called “spaghetti stories”.

“Head full of spaghetti” or “spaghetti head” is also widely used, not just on the Internet but in everyday speech. It’s a term used to describe someone who’s oblivious or lacks common sense.
You’re always one search away from not saying something silly, and you always fail to take that one extra step. It’s hardly my fault that you’re unfamiliar with a popular term or phrase. This isn’t some arcane incantation, it’s well-known, and distinctly not “racist” - in fact, it has nothing to do with Italy or Italians. I didn’t say that you’re “spilling spaghetti” because you’re from Italy, I said it because you’re talking nonsense.
the guy went bust what, 5 times? Assuming he kept 500 ventures each time, that means 495 out of 2500 across 20 years isn't what I'd call a "stellar track record". And before you throw another of your useless platitudes, this is called a hyperbole. Or are you going to deny his several bankruptcies?
What is this weird math? Am I supposed to explain what an LLC is now? No. He didn’t “start 500 businesses 5 times” - is that what you’re calling hyperbole? Because it’s not hyperbole. There are around 500 *different businesses* under The Trump Organisation umbrella, and out of those 500 completely separate entities, 5 went bust. Trump himself was never personally bankrupt, not once - he’s a billionaire. Some of his businesses went bankrupt, but they all have entirely separate books. You don’t take money out of your own pocket and funnel it into an LLC - that’s not how it works. That’s the “limited liability” part of LLC. Tesla’s money doesn’t belong to Elon Musk either, or vice versa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trump_Organization

Democratic congress LMAO yeah, because the Congress introduced the TCJA? ah no wait, that was Trump!
Yes, Congress introduced the TCJA. Trump endorsed it, and once Congress was done, he signed his name on the dotted line. It’s a good piece of legislation, but if you’re under the impression that he wrote it… well…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Cuts_and_Jobs_Act_of_2017

In 2020 the debt to GDP ratio was the highest since WW2, was that somehow Biden's fault as well?
The TCJA is not the reason why the national debt inflated to such an extent. I never mentioned Biden, what are you on about? Congress raised the debt ceiling in order to make room for their lengthy wish list - a large portion of it was related to COVID relief. You can see it on the graph below, but we’ll get to that.
It's so ridiculous that you keep pointing about that ridiculous "tax revenue" strawman, when cost of life became impossible. It's like saying. Not to mention, Trump’s tax cuts, especially the sharp reduction in the corporate tax rate to 21% from 35%, took a big bite out of federal revenue. The CBO estimated in 2018 that the tax cut would increase deficits by about $1.9 trillion over 11 years.

Meanwhile, Trump’s claim that increased revenue from the tariffs would help eliminate (or at least reduce) our national debt hasn’t panned out. In 2018, Trump’s administration began hiking tariffs on aluminum, steel and many other products, launching what became a global trade war with China, the European Union and other countries.

The tariffs did bring in additional revenue. In fiscal 2019, they netted about $71 billion, up about $36 billion from President Barack Obama’s last year in office. But although $36 billion is a lot of money, it’s less than 1/750th of the national debt. That $36 billion could have covered a bit more than three weeks of interest on the national debt — that is, had Trump not unilaterally decided to send a chunk of the tariff revenue to farmers affected by his trade wars. Businesses that struggled as a result of the tariffs also paid fewer taxes, offsetting some of the increased tariff revenue.

By early 2019, the national debt had climbed to $22 trillion. Trump’s budget proposal for 2020 called it a “grave threat to our economic and societal prosperity” and asserted that the U.S. was experiencing a “national debt crisis.” However, that same budget proposal included substantial growth in the national debt.

By the end of 2019, the debt had risen to $23.2 trillion and more federal officials were sounding the alarm. “Not since World War II has the country seen deficits during times of low unemployment that are as large as those that we project — nor, in the past century, has it experienced large deficits for as long as we project,” Phillip Swagel, director of the CBO, said in January 2020.

Weeks later, COVID-19 erupted and made the financial situation far worse. As of Dec. 31, 2020, the national debt had jumped to $27.75 trillion, up 39% from $19.95 trillion when Trump was sworn in. The government ended its 2020 fiscal year with the portion of the national debt owed to investors, the metric favored by the CBO, at around 100% of GDP. The CBO had predicted less than a year earlier that it would take until 2030 to reach that approximate level of debt. Including the trillions owed to various governmental trust funds, the total debt is now about 130% of GDP.

Trump had the third-biggest primary deficit growth, 5.2% of GDP, behind only George W. Bush (11.7%) and Abraham Lincoln (9.4%). Bush, of course, not only passed a big tax cut, as Trump has, but also launched two wars, which greatly inflated the defense budget. Lincoln had to pay for the Civil War. By contrast, Trump’s wars have been almost entirely of the political variety.

Trump challenged Congress to spend — and borrow — even more. Then he went golfing.

But sure, stellar success in economics because of what, tax peanut money not paired by cost of life conditions? like pissing at a house on fire, fire set by the same guy pissing at it BTW.
Tax revenues hit a record high, and yet the debt increased - that means that *spending* has increased compared to previous years. Congress is *spending* in excess of revenue, that’s how you get debt. Trump didn’t set the budget, he didn’t write spending bills, that wasn’t his job. We had a whole government shutdown over spending, lest we forget. Useful graph from your own source:

2CDCB3E8-986D-4E1E-A52F-CB37B29D0B27.jpeg

I see a certain sharp incline at around 2020. The trajectory was exactly the same, give or take, as in previous years *until* 2020. Did Trump do that? I think not.

In any case, the point is this: if you want to reduce the debt, you must necessarily do one thing - stop overspending. The president is not in charge of that. His only job is to sign whatever Congress comes up with into law. The office of the President *does not have the power of the purse*. Blame Congress. For the record, both sides of the aisle are at fault here as both continue to raise the debt ceiling. Even Trump doesn’t seem to be too bothered by it, which is one of the few things I don’t like about his views on fiscal policy. “You have to spend money to make money” is all well and good, but not when you’re already extremely in debt. Congress needs to learn how to tighten the belt, otherwise no amount of economic growth is going to make up for the deficit. With that being said, I don’t know why you bring up living cost in this context. I could think of a number of things that led to it increasing - tax cuts are not on that list.
 
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Dark_Ansem

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In any case, the point is this: if you want to reduce the debt, you must necessarily do one thing - stop overspending. The president is not in charge of that. His only job is to sign whatever Congress comes up with into law. The office of the President *does not have the power of the purse*. Blame Congress. For the record, both sides of the aisle are at fault here as both continue to raise the debt ceiling. Even Trump doesn’t seem to be too bothered by it, which is one of the few things I don’t like about his views on fiscal policy. “You have to spend money to make money” is all well and good, but not when you’re already extremely in debt. Congress needs to learn how to tighten the belt, otherwise no amount of economic growth is going to make up for the deficit. With that being said, I don’t know why you bring up living cost in this context. I could think of a number of things that led to it increasing - tax cuts are not on that list.
I bring cost of living in this context because your much touted "increased incomes" were, in fact, a pay cut which you de-contextualised and ignored the big issue: not only these tax cuts are temporary, they also hurt the working class the most:
In its finalized form, however, the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act cut the corporate tax rate, benefiting shareholders—who tend to be higher earners. It only cuts individuals' taxes for a limited period of time. It scales back the alternative minimum tax and estate tax, as well as reducing the taxes levied on pass-through income (70% of which goes to the highest-earning 1%). It does not close the carried interest loophole, which benefits professional investors. It scraps the individual mandate, likely driving up premiums and making health insurance unaffordable for millions. These provisions taken together are likely to benefit high earners disproportionately and—particularly as a result of scrapping the individual mandate—hurt some working- and middle-class taxpayers. So, the only reason that the tax revenue was high was because, what your little libertarian lies tried to spin differently, Trump actually RAISED taxes for everyone bar high earners.
Oh, I’m aware, and I know what it means, I just don’t think you do. “In everything but the name” means a given “thing” has all the qualities of another “thing”, but it’s called something else, usually for some kind of formal reason.
undefined
And, considering the essential traits of compulsory swiss insurance, it has, as I already said, pretty much every aspect of how taxation-funded healthcare works, starting with the (very affordable) price. So once again, your attempt at being clever has failed spectacularly.
I don’t really have a response. This debacle is all yours.
If only both of these statements were true, but sadly no, the debacle is yours and you have plenty of ludicrous responses.
Let me help - to “spill spaghetti (out of one’s pockets)” is common internet slang that denotes finding yourself in an awkward situation and getting flustered/embarrassed after doing/saying something silly. The term originates from a genre of famous copypastas called “spaghetti stories”.
I'm sorry, I don't know your idiotic internet slang expressions - that's an advantage, not a fault, as clearly of us I'm the one who has a real life beyond the Internet. If you think that I'm flustered, you're nuts LOL

What is this weird math? Am I supposed to explain what an LLC is now? No. He didn’t “start 500 businesses 5 times” - is that what you’re calling hyperbole? Because it’s not hyperbole. There are around 500 *different businesses* under The Trump Organisation umbrella, and out of those 500 completely separate entities, 5 went bust. Trump himself was never personally bankrupt, not once - he’s a billionaire. Some of his businesses went bankrupt, but they all have entirely separate books. You don’t take money out of your own pocket and funnel it into an LLC - that’s not how it works. That’s the “limited liability” part of LLC. Tesla’s money doesn’t belong to Elon Musk either, or vice versa.
See, if I were a condescending and rude has-been like you, now I'd drop a definition of "hyperbole" from any dictionary, and then say something stupid to make you look bad for your (supposed) ignorance, because winning Internet arguments would be the only satisfaction of my life. Luckily for you, you're like, quite low in my priority list, so I'm gonna assume you know exactly what hyperbole means, and that you're just being your ridiculous self for no reason other than the mental satisfaction your petty illusions give you.
Yes, Congress introduced the TCJA. Trump endorsed it, and once Congress was done, he signed his name on the dotted line. It’s a good piece of legislation, but if you’re under the impression that he wrote it… well…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Cuts_and_Jobs_Act_of_2017
Nice try but no, the Act was introduced, as "any google search could tell you", by the Republican Party, passed by both the Republican-Dominated Congress and Senate. Unless you're implying Donald Trump wasn't involved at all with you know, a massive legislative project of his own party, in which case this is further evidence he's unfit to rule, because it would show a complete lack of judgement and understanding necessary for a position of responsibility, such as POTUS.
It's also very interesting how, despite your previous claim giving Trump the merit of the (supposed) fiscal successes, somehow now you say that he only signs them. Again, more doublespeak from you, together with your usual double standards.
I never mentioned Biden
You have been mentioning Biden through the 20+ pages this ridiculous thread is made of, and somehow you think it's his fault if the inflation has happened - despite CLEARLY SAYING BEFORE THAT TRUMP "doesn't control the purse". Again, the usual double standards (and doublethink) of libertarians.
Tax revenues hit a record high, and yet the debt increased - that means that *spending* has increased compared to previous years. Congress is *spending* in excess of revenue, that’s how you get debt. Trump didn’t set the budget, he didn’t write spending bills, that wasn’t his job. We had a whole government shutdown over spending, lest we forget. Useful graph from your own source:
My graph was really useful indeed. Are you blaming Biden for the pandemic as well? Not you know, the guy who suggested that Ivermectin and Hydroxyquil would work, who stubbornly refused to endorse vaccines just to ensure that his successor would be seen worse off handling the pandemic? Because you know, even if I believed that Trump was the economic genius you think he is (he's not), there is also the fact that he did precisely the above. Is this the sort of moral authority the POTUS can have? I suppose you found highly entertaining people dying because they listened to a colossal orange imbecilic manchild, so you're hoping for an encore?
I see a certain sharp incline at around 2020. The trajectory was exactly the same, give or take, as in previous years *until* 2020. Did Trump do that? I think not.
First of all, you somehow want us to think that the US President has no influence at all on public spending. That's disingenous and ludicrous even for you.
In any case, the point is this: if you want to reduce the debt, you must necessarily do one thing - stop overspending. The president is not in charge of that. His only job is to sign whatever Congress comes up with into law. The office of the President *does not have the power of the purse*. Blame Congress. For the record, both sides of the aisle are at fault here as both continue to raise the debt ceiling. Even Trump doesn’t seem to be too bothered by it, which is one of the few things I don’t like about his views on fiscal policy. “You have to spend money to make money” is all well and good, but not when you’re already extremely in debt. Congress needs to learn how to tighten the belt, otherwise no amount of economic growth is going to make up for the deficit. With that being said, I don’t know why you bring up living cost in this context. I could think of a number of things that led to it increasing - tax cuts are not on that list.
The 2020 poverty line for a family of four is $26,200: People with incomes between $10,000 and $30,000 — nearly one-quarter of Americans — are among those scheduled to pay a higher average tax rate in 2021 than in years before the tax “cut” was passed. The C.B.O. and Joint Committee estimated that those with an income of $20,000 to $30,000 would owe an extra $365 next year — these are people who are struggling just to pay rent and put food on the table.

Of course, the poor have never mattered much to the Republican Party or to Libertarians, but those on the edge of poverty have been particularly hard hit by the pandemic and the recession it has caused, so Trump’s planned tax increases seem especially heartless, and impractical, when you consider that their higher tax payments, while a huge burden for them, will add little to the budget.

By 2027, when the law’s provisions are set to be fully enacted, with the stealth tax increases complete, the country will be neatly divided into two groups: Those making over $100,000 will on average get a tax cut. Those earning under $100,000 — an income bracket encompassing three-quarters of taxpayers — will not.

At the same time, Trump has given his peers, people with annual incomes in excess of $1 million dollars, or the top 0.3 percent in the country, a huge gift: The Joint Committee on Taxation estimated the average tax rate in 2019 for this group to be 2.3 percentage points lower than before the tax cut, saving the average taxpayer in this group over $64,000 — more than the average American family makes in a year.
 

Foxi4

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I bring cost of living in this context because your much touted "increased incomes" were, in fact, a pay cut which you de-contextualised and ignored the big issue: not only these tax cuts are temporary, they also hurt the working class the most:
In its finalized form, however, the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act cut the corporate tax rate, benefiting shareholders—who tend to be higher earners. It only cuts individuals' taxes for a limited period of time. It scales back the alternative minimum tax and estate tax, as well as reducing the taxes levied on pass-through income (70% of which goes to the highest-earning 1%). It does not close the carried interest loophole, which benefits professional investors. It scraps the individual mandate, likely driving up premiums and making health insurance unaffordable for millions. These provisions taken together are likely to benefit high earners disproportionately and—particularly as a result of scrapping the individual mandate—hurt some working- and middle-class taxpayers. So, the only reason that the tax revenue was high was because, what your little libertarian lies tried to spin differently, Trump actually RAISED taxes for everyone bar high earners.
This is pure fiction, and it was discussed earlier in this thread. The act primarily benefitted lower and middle tax brackets.
And, considering the essential traits of compulsory swiss insurance, it has, as I already said, pretty much every aspect of how taxation-funded healthcare works, starting with the (very affordable) price. So once again, your attempt at being clever has failed spectacularly.
I don’t even know how to respond to that. Nobody in their right mind would ever claim that Swiss healthcare has “traits of tax-funded healthcare” - it has none of them. It’s objectively private, by any relevant metric. If your argument is that Swiss healthcare is “like public healthcare” because it’s cheap (as you mention above, which is weird considering public healthcare is anything but cheap) and universal (as you probably mean, but seem unable to convey) then your argument is stupid - neither trait is explicitly “public” in nature. In fact, you have it backwards entirely - Swiss healthcare *proves* that those traits are not exclusive to public coverage.
If only both of these statements were true, but sadly no, the debacle is yours and you have plenty of ludicrous responses.
Like I said, I really don’t care if you take ownership of your boo boo or not. It makes no difference to me, I’m just giving you an out.
I'm sorry, I don't know your idiotic internet slang expressions - that's an advantage, not a fault, as clearly of us I'm the one who has a real life beyond the Internet. If you think that I'm flustered, you're nuts LOL
Apology accepted.
See, if I were a condescending and rude has-been like you, now I'd drop a definition of "hyperbole" from any dictionary, and then say something stupid to make you look bad for your (supposed) ignorance, because winning Internet arguments would be the only satisfaction of my life. Luckily for you, you're like, quite low in my priority list, so I'm gonna assume you know exactly what hyperbole means, and that you're just being your ridiculous self for no reason other than the mental satisfaction your petty illusions give you.
This is a very long-winded way of saying that I was correct on all counts and you have no rebuttal. There’s nothing that says I’m low on your priority list quite like writing a dissertation about how little you care.
Nice try but no, the Act was introduced, as "any google search could tell you", by the Republican Party, passed by both the Republican-Dominated Congress and Senate. Unless you're implying Donald Trump wasn't involved at all with you know, a massive legislative project of his own party, in which case this is further evidence he's unfit to rule, because it would show a complete lack of judgement and understanding necessary for a position of responsibility, such as POTUS.
It's also very interesting how, despite your previous claim giving Trump the merit of the (supposed) fiscal successes, somehow now you say that he only signs them. Again, more doublespeak from you, together with your usual double standards.
…I said that the act was created by Congress, and you come back with “a-ha! You’re wrong! It was actually created by Congress”? Uhm… yes, that’s what I said. I really don’t know if you’re pretending to be clueless or if you really don’t know how legislation works at this point. I give credit to Donald Trump’s administration for successfully implementing the tax cuts - he’s the head of the executive, that’s his job. He didn’t “create the tax cut” because that’s not in his purview.
You have been mentioning Biden through the 20+ pages this ridiculous thread is made of, and somehow you think it's his fault if the inflation has happened - despite CLEARLY SAYING BEFORE THAT TRUMP "doesn't control the purse". Again, the usual double standards (and doublethink) of libertarians.
I never mentioned Biden in regards to the subject we’re discussing *right now* - the TCJA, signed under the *previous administration*. I mentioned him in regards to *Bidenflation* occurring under the *current administration*, the subject that was discussed previously. For the love of God, try to keep up - these are two separate discussions. As a side note, both of those things can be true - the office of the president does not hold the power of the purse and the administration can make moves that affect inflation.
My graph was really useful indeed. Are you blaming Biden for the pandemic as well? Not you know, the guy who suggested that Ivermectin and Hydroxyquil would work, who stubbornly refused to endorse vaccines just to ensure that his successor would be seen worse off handling the pandemic? Because you know, even if I believed that Trump was the economic genius you think he is (he's not), there is also the fact that he did precisely the above. Is this the sort of moral authority the POTUS can have? I suppose you found highly entertaining people dying because they listened to a colossal orange imbecilic manchild, so you're hoping for an encore?
I don’t ask sitting presidents for medical advice. Regarding COVID response, Trump’s number one priority was shutting down the borders (for which he was called racist, even though it’s a perfectly reasonable move in light of a pandemic erupting in a specific region of the world) and Operation Warp Speed.
First of all, you somehow want us to think that the US President has no influence at all on public spending. That's disingenous and ludicrous even for you.
The president doesn’t hold the power of the purse - that’s what I said, and that’s true. The budget is compiled and voted upon in Congress, the president signs it.
The 2020 poverty line for a family of four is $26,200: People with incomes between $10,000 and $30,000 — nearly one-quarter of Americans — are among those scheduled to pay a higher average tax rate in 2021 than in years before the tax “cut” was passed. The C.B.O. and Joint Committee estimated that those with an income of $20,000 to $30,000 would owe an extra $365 next year — these are people who are struggling just to pay rent and put food on the table.
Not terribly surprising given the sheer amount of spending on the table right now. This was built into the system from the start as means of easing before 2025 when the act expires (for the most part) - we knew all of this the day it was signed. Moreover, there are moves made to make the cuts permanent, we’ll see where that goes - so far the Senate didn’t act upon it. You’re posting this comparison without context - the same families that will be paying $300-odd more in income tax are saving in a variety of other ways, and have saved orders of magnitude more in previous years. You’re uninformed, plus you’re quoting the NY Times without attribution and completely verbatim, as if you wrote this. I thought I politely nudged you with the graph, but you didn’t pick up on it. In case it isn’t obvious, I can instantly recognise which parts of your posts are written by you and which ones are not - it’s very easy to tell. Are you plagiarising articles intentionally, or are you just forgetting to add sources/signify that those are quotes? No matter, my sources are below.

https://taxfoundation.org/no-stealth-tax-increases-in-2021-republican-biden-taxes/

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance...enefited-middle-working-class-americans-most/

The GOP’s number one priority in future races should be to make the cuts permanent - they couldn’t achieve that goal at the time due to rules concerning budget, but they absolutely can going forward. The cuts will only expire if Congress fails to act upon it.

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/go...k-hispanic-wage-growth-employment-11643834495

Of course, the poor have never mattered much to the Republican Party or to Libertarians, but those on the edge of poverty have been particularly hard hit by the pandemic and the recession it has caused, so Trump’s planned tax increases seem especially heartless, and impractical, when you consider that their higher tax payments, while a huge burden for them, will add little to the budget.
”The poor” have benefitted from the cut first and foremost - their deductions have nearly doubled.
By 2027, when the law’s provisions are set to be fully enacted, with the stealth tax increases complete, the country will be neatly divided into two groups: Those making over $100,000 will on average get a tax cut. Those earning under $100,000 — an income bracket encompassing three-quarters of taxpayers — will not.
Again, there’s more to the act than just the income brackets.
At the same time, Trump has given his peers, people with annual incomes in excess of $1 million dollars, or the top 0.3 percent in the country, a huge gift: The Joint Committee on Taxation estimated the average tax rate in 2019 for this group to be 2.3 percentage points lower than before the tax cut, saving the average taxpayer in this group over $64,000 — more than the average American family makes in a year.
Good. What are you expecting me to say, that I don’t want people to hold on to their money? I’m against the income tax even existing - it’s a penalty on productivity.

I’ll cut you some slack now, unless there’s something you want to add. I don’t think the two of us can have a productive discussion - it’s fairly obvious that you don’t know how the U.S. government works, and it’s not my responsibility to educate you. We can’t keep having this back and forth where you say something stupid, I correct you and you come back to double down, or even repeat what I just told you as a “rebuttal”. We can get back to this when you figure out how legislation is passed in the U.S., and which branch is responsible for what.
 
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sley

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No, he did some good stuff with North Korea etc. but made a fool of himself too many times.
 

Dark_Ansem

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This is pure fiction, and it was discussed earlier in this thread. The act primarily benefitted lower and middle tax brackets.
Nah, this is you lying once more.

I don’t even know how to respond to that. Nobody in their right mind would ever claim that Swiss healthcare has “traits of tax-funded healthcare” - it has none of them. It’s objectively private, by any relevant metric. If your argument is that Swiss healthcare is “like public healthcare” because it’s cheap (as you mention above, which is weird considering public healthcare is anything but cheap) and universal (as you probably mean, but seem unable to convey) then your argument is stupid - neither trait is explicitly “public” in nature. In fact, you have it backwards entirely - Swiss healthcare *proves* that those traits are not exclusive to public coverage.
Again, being deliberately dense and misleading with all your stupid waffle.

This is a very long-winded way of saying that I was correct on all counts and you have no rebuttal. There’s nothing that says I’m low on your priority list quite like writing a dissertation about how little you care
That's nice, you think a small paragraph isn a dissertation!
No, that's a long way of saying exactly what I said: that you are a condescending little liar who is incapable of discussing in good faith.
…I said that the act was created by Congress, and you come back with “a-ha! You’re wrong! It was actually created by Congress”? Uhm… yes, that’s what I said. I really don’t know if you’re pretending to be clueless or if you really don’t know how legislation works at this point. I give credit to Donald Trump’s administration for successfully implementing the tax cuts - he’s the head of the executive, that’s his job. He didn’t “create the tax cut” because that’s not in his
More mirror climbing: now it's the "administration" when until now you said it was Trump's merit by himself. You're laughable.

You’re posting this comparison without context
Oh, the irony of you saying this.

You’re uninformed, and quoting the NY Times without attribution and completely verbatim, as if you wrote this. I thought I politely nudged you with the graph enough, but in case it isn’t obvious, I can instantly recognise which parts of your posts are written by you and which ones are not. Are you plagiarising articles intentionally, or are you just forgetting to add sources/signify that those are quotes?
I literally just schooled you and you had to write a "dissertartation" of waffle
I'm not plagiarising anything: someone else made the argument and I'm just using it, since you claim to respect sources (only to ignore those that do not agree with you, despite being more authoritative), therefore saving me precious time from engaging with someone who talks the talk rather than walking it.

The poor” have benefitted from the cut first and foremost - their deductions have nearly doubled.
More nonsense, as clearly their conditions haven't improved at all.

people to hold on to their money? I’m against the income tax even existing - it’s a penalty on productivit
And of course, you're one of the fathers of fiscal thinking, clearly you know exactly what you are saying - not. Not a surprise libertarians can't run a piss-up in a brewery.

I’ll cut you some slack now, unless there’s something you want to add. I don’t think the two of us can have a productive discussion - it’s fairly obvious that you don’t know how the U.S. government works, and it’s not my responsibility to educate you. We can’t keep having this back and forth where you say something stupid, I correct you and you come back to double down, or even repeat what I just told you as a “rebuttal”. We can get back to this when you figure out how legislation is passed in the U.S., and which branch is responsible for what
Yes, it's really difficult to have a productive discussion when you're a condescending liar who keeps engaging in bad faith, throwing words of all kinds around (veiled or otherwise), then hiding behind paper-thin justifications, despite the fact that I have at least tried to engage constructively. Hilarious that a functionally illiterate individual like yourself thinks he can educate anybody on anything. Not to mention, the nonsense of your dead cat hasn't abated yet, imagine how much you have to amuse yourself to keep doing that.

No, he did some good stuff with North Korea etc. but made a fool of himself too many times.
The moment he left NK the dictator reneged on every promise, so, like what?
 

Stone_Wings

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your feelings are immaterial to me

That is probably THE biggest lie you've told. You and a few others around here should honestly be shit canned of your position on the site. You're quite pathetic from everything I've read. What kind of site mod posts the shit you do and gets involved in other forum members pissing contests on a consistent basis? Sad.
 

Deleted member 194275

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That is probably THE biggest lie you've told. You and a few others around here should honestly be shit canned of your position on the site. You're quite pathetic from everything I've read. What kind of site mod posts the shit you do and gets involved in other forum members pissing contests on a consistent basis? Sad.
I had not realized that the guy is a mod before your reply here. It's odd indeed because he bullied the guy for not understanding English, a problem witch many here face (me included). Those kind of small bullies or whatever is called are common, even acceptable if not too frequent, but if the guy is a mod, it is not the same I think.
 

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