• Friendly reminder: The politics section is a place where a lot of differing opinions are raised. You may not like what you read here but it is someone's opinion. As long as the debate is respectful you are free to debate freely. Also, the views and opinions expressed by forum members may not necessarily reflect those of GBAtemp. Messages that the staff consider offensive or inflammatory may be removed in line with existing forum terms and conditions.

Can Donald Trump become President Again?

Xzi

Time to fly, 621
Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2013
Messages
17,783
Trophies
3
Location
The Lands Between
Website
gbatemp.net
XP
8,681
Country
United States
That's a subset of energy independence. We don't have that tech yet, so cutting off our nose to spite our face does no good. Ask any American how they're feeling about the virtue of green energy when they're paying $6 at the pump and the cost of all their groceries has gone up another 20% in the midst of this Russia/Ukraine conflict.
Americans overwhelmingly supported cutting ourselves off from Russian oil, despite knowing full well that would mean prices going up. Not to mention: solar and wind energy are now a fraction of the cost per KWh. The biggest hurdle to going completely green and/or energy independent are the big oil conglomerates who want neither of those things to happen in the US. And it's extremely obvious by now that they've got the entire Republican party deep in their pocket.
 

Foxi4

Endless Trash
Global Moderator
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
30,829
Trophies
3
Location
Gaming Grotto
XP
29,869
Country
Poland
Americans overwhelmingly supported cutting ourselves off from Russian oil, despite knowing full well that would mean prices going up. Not to mention: solar and wind energy are now a fraction of the cost per KWh. The biggest hurdle to going completely green and/or energy independent are the big oil conglomerates who want neither of those things to happen in the US. And it's extremely obvious by now that they've got the entire Republican party deep in their pocket.
The biggest hurdle in going “full green” is, and always has been, energy storage. For the record, Russia is a major exporter of nickel, a crucial component in many industrial applications, particularly in the production of batteries. Y’know, the thing you need to push green energy. In order to actually switch away from fossil fuels entirely, you’d need to guarantee that in the event of a complete power generation shut down (which is common since wind turbines and solar panels are inherently unreliable and weather-dependent) you’d still be able to supply power to key installations - right now you cannot. The idea that the world will switch away to renewables completely in the foreseeable future, or even in our lifetimes, is a complete pipe dream, and that’s not because of “big oil” or “big coal”, it’s because of our current level of energy storage technology (although we are getting better at it). Many countries that claim to have gone 100% green do so via various credit systems and offsets - nobody is insane enough to not have a traditional system in place unless they can guarantee it cannot fail, and the list of countries like that is rather short, 4 or 5 if I recall correctly (geographically-dependent, rather than based on good will - Iceland comes to mind thanks to volcanic activity covering 1/4th of the country’s energy supply. Various hydroelectric implementations are also great) - green energy is generally supplementary, not primary.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Coto

Xzi

Time to fly, 621
Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2013
Messages
17,783
Trophies
3
Location
The Lands Between
Website
gbatemp.net
XP
8,681
Country
United States
The biggest hurdle on going “full green” is, and always has been, energy storage.
I'd call that the second biggest hurdle, as it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out oil companies have a solve for that issue which they keep locked up in a vault 200 miles underground. Additionally, we already have the means to move much of the US to a green energy grid, we could just hold off on the East and West coast for a bit until battery technology catches up.

In order to actually switch away from fossil fuels entirely, you’d need to guarantee that in the event of a complete power generation shut down you’d still be able to supply power to key installations - right now you cannot.
That's not true...a lot of US military bases have supplemented their power supply with solar and/or use it as a backup energy source in case our extremely outdated and insecure oil/coal-based energy grid gets hacked. The bottom line is that our existing grid would still need a total revamp even if we weren't looking at the possibility of upgrading it with green sources, so we might as well make it more future-proof during the process too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lacius and KingVamp

KingVamp

Haaah-hahahaha!
Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
13,511
Trophies
2
Location
Netherworld
XP
8,006
Country
United States
That's a subset of energy independence. We don't have that tech yet, so cutting off our nose to spite our face does no good. Ask any American how they're feeling about the virtue of green energy when they're paying $6 at the pump and the cost of all their groceries has gone up another 20% in the midst of this Russia/Ukraine conflict.
We have the technology to be less reliant on gas than we are now, unfortunately people keep voting for people that are beholden to gas companies. Even now, people are saving money with just hybrid cars.

Besides, even if we forgo all environmental safety for more pipelines, unless we nationalize gas, we have no control where that gas goes.

ok captain planet doubt you (or biden for that matter) can change anything
Getting a worse president and government wouldn't help.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Xzi

Foxi4

Endless Trash
Global Moderator
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
30,829
Trophies
3
Location
Gaming Grotto
XP
29,869
Country
Poland
I'd call that the second biggest hurdle, as it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out oil companies have a solve for that issue which they keep locked up in a vault 200 miles underground. Additionally, we already have the means to move much of the US to a green energy grid, we could just hold off on the East and West coast for a bit until battery technology catches up.

That's not true...a lot of US military bases have supplemented their power supply with solar and/or use it as a backup energy source in case our extremely outdated and insecure oil/coal-based energy grid gets hacked. The bottom line is that our existing grid would need a total revamp even if we weren't looking at the possibility of upgrading it with green sources, so we might as well make it more future-proof during the process too.
Supplementary yes, primary not so much, or at least not in all states. Plenty of large rivers in the U.S. ripe for hydroelectric dams, but you’d have to chase off the hippies with large sticks to take advantage of them - think of all the beavers. I’m also not sure if the grid would need a “total revamp” - it would need investment in sensible power generation rather than windmills and solar - those two just happen to be the easiest to deploy, so that’s what most states go for when they want to tickle the electorate with green bait.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Coto

Xzi

Time to fly, 621
Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2013
Messages
17,783
Trophies
3
Location
The Lands Between
Website
gbatemp.net
XP
8,681
Country
United States
I’m also not sure if the grid would need a “total revamp” - it would need investment in sensible power generation rather than windmills and solar
We probably disagree about the definition of the term "sensible" in this context, as it's impossible to generate any energy with increasingly-severe fires, tornadoes, floods, and hurricanes destroying all our power lines on an annual basis. My theory is that we've had literally thousands of alien visitors to this planet, but they all noped the fuck out the second they realized we are still basically cavemen unable to move past such a primitive and finite energy source.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: KingVamp

djpannda

GBAtemp's Pannda
Member
GBAtemp Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
2,496
Trophies
3
XP
6,551
Country
United States
Lol, it implies that the argument that "bots exist" is a stupid reason to be dismissive of an issue. In this thread, you are pretending to argue against bots to deflect from the content that is posted.

Bots exist for all topics. Look at Twitter.

My primary response was to you using an tweet to reinforce an unrelated claim, and it was ironic that Catboy liked it immediately after their little rant about sources.
Still waiting for my points….
 

tabzer

This place is a meme.
Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
5,844
Trophies
1
Age
39
XP
4,911
Country
Japan
Still waiting for my points….
Your logical fallacy was self-defeating and I demonstrated that. Nothing was ambiguous about it. Study a little more about what doublespeak is and drop the mental gymnastics.

You suggested an issue can be dismissed because botfarms exist. That's stupid.
 

djpannda

GBAtemp's Pannda
Member
GBAtemp Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
2,496
Trophies
3
XP
6,551
Country
United States
Your logical fallacy was self-defeating and I demonstrated that. Nothing was ambiguous about it. Study a little more about what doublespeak is and drop the mental gymnastics.

You suggested an issue can be dismissed because botfarms exist. That's stupid.
Lol you are dismissing my statement of bots farms damaging American ….because ….bot farms exist…!:grog::toot:
 

tabzer

This place is a meme.
Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
5,844
Trophies
1
Age
39
XP
4,911
Country
Japan
Lol you are dismissing my statement of bots farms damaging American ….because ….bot farms exist…!:grog::toot:
A couple things. That wasn't your claim. That was something else you said after the fact.

Also, it is stupid and self-defeating to claim that because botfarms exist, opinions are invalid. You seem to understand that, but you seem to miss the part where it was mocking you for making that suggestion (or are playing dumb).
 

Lacius

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
18,099
Trophies
3
XP
18,338
Country
United States
Supplementary yes, primary not so much, or at least not in all states. Plenty of large rivers in the U.S. ripe for hydroelectric dams, but you’d have to chase off the hippies with large sticks to take advantage of them - think of all the beavers. I’m also not sure if the grid would need a “total revamp” - it would need investment in sensible power generation rather than windmills and solar - those two just happen to be the easiest to deploy, so that’s what most states go for when they want to tickle the electorate with green bait.
Yeah, states definitely don't go wind and solar because they have become some the cheapest sources of electricity and don't contribute to the destruction of the planet as we know it.

I bought rooftop solar panels last summer that provide >100% of my yearly electricity needs. Over the lifespan of these panels, I'll end up making thousands of dollars in profit. I really should have invested in more sensible power generation instead of buying solar panels just to tickle my own taint.

What a joke.
 

kenlee168

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2022
Messages
232
Trophies
0
XP
226
Country
Singapore
People tends to get too emotional and even radical and rather prefer hell ignoring whatsoever a person can bring for the good as a whole. Where are the "paid' protestor now after joe got put in? Reason why China will takeover US as a superpower as there are too much internal unrest from within and hinder it.
 

djpannda

GBAtemp's Pannda
Member
GBAtemp Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
2,496
Trophies
3
XP
6,551
Country
United States
A couple things. That wasn't your claim. That was something else you said after the fact.

Also, it is stupid and self-defeating to claim that because botfarms exist, opinions are invalid. You seem to understand that, but you seem to miss the part where it was mocking you for making that suggestion (or are playing dumb).
So your saying that the bot farms that I referred exist…? But your insistence has betrayed your double speak
 

Foxi4

Endless Trash
Global Moderator
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
30,829
Trophies
3
Location
Gaming Grotto
XP
29,869
Country
Poland
Yeah, states definitely don't go wind and solar because they have become some the cheapest sources of electricity and don't contribute to the destruction of the planet as we know it.

I bought rooftop solar panels last summer that provide >100% of my yearly electricity needs. Over the lifespan of these panels, I'll end up making thousands of dollars in profit. I really should have invested in more sensible power generation instead of buying solar panels just to tickle my own taint.

What a joke.
ITT: Lacius hasn’t heard of snow. What works for you doesn’t work in Wisconsin. Also yes, solar panels are both inherently unreliable and inefficient, though I am glad that you manage to produce an energy surplus and sell that surplus off to the energy company - that’s a pretty good deal. Were I in your situation, I would’ve done the same. In my region cloud coverage is too dense to get anywhere near that level of efficiency, hence why panels are less popular. Cloud coverage can reduce power generation by as much as 80%, snow will drop it down to 0% until the panel is cleared of obstruction (obviously). Photovoltaic is great *depending on where you live*, which is what I stated.
We probably disagree about the definition of the term "sensible" in this context, as it's impossible to generate any energy with increasingly-severe fires, tornadoes, floods, and hurricanes destroying all our power lines on an annual basis. My theory is that we've had literally thousands of alien visitors to this planet, but they all noped the fuck out the second they realized we are still basically cavemen unable to move past such a primitive and finite energy source.
It’s a “primitive and finite energy source” that always works regardless of weather conditions and is easy to implement, that’s the advantage. 100 years from now people in harsh climates will still use diesel generators to supplement their own power, specifically for the reasons you’ve listed, because they’d rather not freeze.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CraddaPoosta

Localhorst86

Robert'); DROP TABLE members;--
Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
2,751
Trophies
1
Location
Nintendo works for my dad
XP
5,409
Country
Germany

Foxi4

Endless Trash
Global Moderator
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
30,829
Trophies
3
Location
Gaming Grotto
XP
29,869
Country
Poland
I’m not terribly surprised Russians would be opposed to the current administration amidst economic sanctions, I don’t know why you’re surprised. As for Russian media running cover stories for American politicians, this is a known element from the playbook - they did the same thing in 2016. The aim is to create turmoil - back then they had trolls supporting both Trump and Hillary, although admittedly more of them “supported Trump”. They intend to create the impression of internal conflict to confuse voters - in reality hardly anyone actually cares.
 

Lacius

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
18,099
Trophies
3
XP
18,338
Country
United States
ITT: Lacius hasn’t heard of snow. What works for you doesn’t work in Wisconsin. Also yes, solar panels are both inherently unreliable and inefficient, though I am glad that you manage to produce an energy surplus and sell that surplus off to the energy company - that’s a pretty good deal. Were I in your situation, I would’ve done the same. In my region cloud coverage is too dense to get anywhere near that level of efficiency, hence why panels are less popular. Cloud coverage can reduce power generation by as much as 80%, snow will drop it down to 0% until the panel is cleared of obstruction (obviously). Photovoltaic is great *depending on where you live*, which is what I stated.
It’s a “primitive and finite energy source” that always works regardless of weather conditions and is easy to implement, that’s the advantage. 100 years from now people in harsh climates will still use diesel generators to supplement their own power, specifically for the reasons you’ve listed, because they’d rather not freeze.
Golly, I really should have factored in all the snow and nighttime I get here in the Midwest before posting. I've honestly never heard of these things. I'm really going to look foolish when I look it up and find out my state gets a whopping 10% more sunlight than Wisconsin.

Pour one out for the mole people of Wisconsin who can't generate cheap electricity from photovoltaic solar panels.:grog:
 
Last edited by Lacius,

Localhorst86

Robert'); DROP TABLE members;--
Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
2,751
Trophies
1
Location
Nintendo works for my dad
XP
5,409
Country
Germany
I’m not terribly surprised Russians would be opposed to the current administration amidst economic sanctions, I don’t know why you’re surprised. As for Russian media running cover stories for American politicians, this is a known element from the playbook - they did the same thing in 2016. The aim is to create turmoil - back then they had trolls supporting both Trump and Hillary, although admittedly more of them “supported Trump”. They intend to create the impression of internal conflict to confuse voters - in reality hardly anyone actually cares.
I am not surprised they are opposed to the Biden administration admidst the economic sanctions and his recent remarks. In light of those remarks it's just a "two can play at this game" situation.

What I am somewhat surprised about, is the fact they are not just calling for a regime change (which the US already has a system in place to change every 4 years, 8 at max) but specifically calling for Trump and how openly Trump is willing to accept/call for help from Russia and Putin specifically...

It's just absurd to me, as an outsider, that a large number of conservatives would give their vote to such open acts of moral disregard just to "own the libs/dems"...
 

Site & Scene News

Popular threads in this forum

General chit-chat
Help Users
    BigOnYa @ BigOnYa: Scratch n sniff +1