About today’s Florida shooting

[WeedZ]

Imagine what the stats for the USA would be if you discounted the violence in New Orleans, Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, and St. Louis, and other Democrat-majority urban centers. The USA's image is skewed by these metro murder outliers.

Then you leave out Republican controlled areas with even more violence and higher murder rates like St Louis and Birmingham.

 

[WeedZ]

Guys, I thought it sounded a little odd that there would be 18 shootings in a few months. Actually, it sounded like bullshit. I looked into it. There were like 3 actual attacks. The rest were suicides on school grounds (some not even during school hours) where no one else was injured and accidental discharges of weapons, most of which had no injuries. One of those was actually a police training school or some shit.

There shouldn't be any shootings, but we also shouldn't betray them as a common occurrence for the sake of gun control. It could condition people to accepting these attacks as normal and cause even more incidents.

 

[Xzi]

There shouldn't be any shootings, but we also shouldn't betray them as a common occurrence for the sake of gun control. It could condition people to accepting these attacks as normal and cause even more incidents.

It depends on which source you're looking at for how they count incidents. America leads total gun deaths every year because we have the most guns. Accidents and suicides are increasingly problematic as we mix gun issues with the opioid crisis.

 

[WeedZ]

It depends on which source you're looking at for how they count incidents. America leads total gun deaths every year because we have the most guns. Accidents and suicides are increasingly problematic as we mix gun issues with the opioid crisis.

My definition of school shooting is a person with intent, packing a weapon, going into a school with the goal of shooting and killing people. To put accidents and suicides under that column is disingenuous and quite frankly bullshit. It's purposeful embellishment with the intent to misinform people for the sake of pushing one's own agenda. The worst kind of backhanded political trickery. I consider it evil.

 

[Hanafuda]

Then you leave out Republican controlled areas with even more violence and higher murder rates like St Louis and Birmingham.

I wasn't talking about any States as whole. Just the cities. Just the areas of highest crime per capita.

 

[WeedZ]

I wasn't talking about any States as whole. Just the cities. Just the areas of highest crime per capita.

St Louis and Birmingham aren't states

 

[Hanafuda]

St Louis and Birmingham aren't states

Yeah that's what I mean. Missouri and Alabama may lean Republican as a whole but those cities don't.

 

[Xzi]

My definition of school shooting is a person with intent, packing a weapon, going into a school with the goal of shooting and killing people. To put accidents and suicides under that column is disingenuous and quite frankly bullshit. It's purposeful embellishment with the intent to misinform people for the sake of pushing one's own agenda. The worst kind of backhanded political trickery. I consider it evil.

Sure, but not every source is going to report those deaths as school shootings (although they technically are). Mass shootings would be a better specifier to use if you want to guarantee more than one person involved.

Besides, what does it say about the state America's in when "just one" death isn't thought of as good enough to go in the stats? Has to be at least ten people dead here to count for anything apparently, and we still won't do anything about it. Just add it to the yearly total and keep watching.

 

[WeedZ]

Sure, but not every source is going to report those deaths as school shootings (although they technically are). Mass shootings would be a better specifier to use if you want to guarantee more than one person involved.

That still wouldn't justify accidental discharges with no injuries as a "shooting". Like I said, one was a training facility for the use of firearms. That definition is way too broad.

The only sources to report those as "shootings" are the ones pushing for gun control and the ones already misinformed. Now that we know better, we personally can continue the debate without misinforming others. If someone wants to talk about the misuse of firearms or lack of safety measures when arguing for gun control, then I'm game.

But honestly, we all know "school shooting" in the minds of most normal people is synonymous with mass murder. I don't loosen the reasonable definition of a word to make a point. Because, like I said, it's disingenuous. Doing so purposefully takes away from your credibility.

 

[Kioku]

Sure, but not every source is going to report those deaths as school shootings (although they technically are). Mass shootings would be a better specifier to use if you want to guarantee more than one person involved.

Besides, what does it say about the state America's in when "just one" death isn't thought of as good enough to go in the stats? Has to be at least ten people dead here to count for anything apparently, and we still won't do anything about it. Just add it to the yearly total and keep watching.

They don't refer to students hanging themselves at school as "School Hangings"... Why would a suicide or accidental discharge be a "School Shooting".. Not seeing the logic here.

 

[Xzi]

But honestly, we all know "school shooting" in the minds of most normal people is synonymous with mass murder. I don't loosen the reasonable definition of a word to make a point. Because, like I said, it's disingenuous. Doing so purposefully takes away from your credibility.

All it means is that the definition of school shooting is different than what you thought it was. It's literally any shooting that occurs at a school. That doesn't mean they're being disingenuous, it means this is a common misconception.

The news routinely uses "shooting" or "shootout" for incidents involving only one victim.

 

[WeedZ]

All it means is that the definition of school shooting is different than what you thought it was. It's literally any shooting that occurs at a school.

When a huge majority of people don't consider accidental discharges or firing without the intent of hurting others as a shooting and you know the average person wouldn't, but you report that anyway.. that makes you a liar. The key component here is purpose. They purposefully misinformed.

Now go tell several million people they had the wrong idea about what "shooting" means

 

[Xzi]

When a huge majority of people don't consider accidental discharges or firing without the intent of hurting others as a shooting and you know the average person wouldn't, but you report that anyway.. that makes you a liar. The key component here is purpose. They purposefully misinformed.

I don't know what better descriptor you want them to use for these incidents. "Suicide by gun at school?" It's literally just a different way of saying "school shooting." You might not like how they phrase it, but it doesn't make it incorrect.

"Shooting" doesn't imply more than one victim on its own, and "school" is just the place it occured. We only assume more than one victim right off the bat in America because of how common mass murder has become. It doesn't mean we should ignore single-victim gun incidents.

 

[WeedZ]

I don't know what better descriptor you want them to use for these incidents. "Suicide by gun at school?" It's literally just a different way of saying "school shooting." You might not like how they phrase it, but it doesn't make it incorrect.

They don't refer to students hanging themselves at school as "School Hangings"... Why would a suicide or accidental discharge be a "School Shooting".. Not seeing the logic here.

They reported that with the Florida incident. There was no reason to because they aren't the same thing. If we had 100 accidental discharges in a firing range at a police academy where on a back wall built to catch stray bullets was hit, did we have 100 school shootings? Would you report that as a crisis? No, so you can't add them to a real crisis for embellishment.

 

[Xzi]

They reported that with the Florida incident. There was no reason to because they aren't the same thing. If we had 100 accidental discharges in a firing range at a police academy where on a back wall built to catch stray bullets was hit, did we have 100 school shootings? Would you report that as a crisis? No, so you can't add them to a real crisis for embellishment.

What you're suggesting is ignoring gun deaths in schools when there's only a single victim. There's no other statistic they would fall under in this case. As much as we'd like to do that in America to deflate our gun death numbers some, it seems extremely unethical.

 

[Hi-Dro]

Meanwhile in Afghanistan, Iraq, Mexico, Syria more than 10,000 deaths (per country) in 2017 alone. Why don't we stop to offer their families condolences ?
Oh wait they are poor and underprivileged they don't count right?
Damn upper middle class sympathy.
PUSSIES!!!!

 

[Xzi]

Meanwhile in Afghanistan, Iraq, Mexico, Syria more than 10,000 deaths (per country) in 2017 alone. Why don't we stop to offer their families condolences ?
Oh wait they are poor and underprivileged they don't count right?
Damn upper middle class sympathy.
PUSSIES!!!!

We can't even solve our own problems and you're stupid enough to expect us to solve the world's problems.

 

[WeedZ]

What you're suggesting is ignoring gun deaths in schools when there's only a single victim. There's no other statistic they would fall under in this case. As much as we'd like to do that in America to deflate our gun death numbers some, it seems extremely unethical.

What's unethical is comparing non-injuries, suicides, and mass murder under a blanket term that's been skewed. They are different things that need to be handled differently. The non-injuries take away from the seriousness of suicide and murder.

"Oh man, your friends were murdered and you had to walk over their dead bodies to get to safety? I know what you mean, I accidentally bumped my gun in training the other day and could of hit someone."

 

[WeedZ]

This is only because you're not taking the discharge of a weapon on school grounds seriously. If you had been involved in any such incident I'm sure your viewpoint would be different on the matter.

I do take it seriously, but they're different. Suicide is purely a mental health issue. Not a gun control issue. If someone kills themself at school by any other means it's just a suicide. If they shot themselves it's on par with a school shooting?

That doesn't make sense, unless your only concern is gun control and you want to find any example you can to reenforce your stance. Those cases go with the crisis of suicide, you can't have those for your mass murder arguement. They're handling that already in a way that isn't applicable to gun control.

Accidental discharges are a safety concern, not a gun control issue. Those were officers and security that accidentally discharged. How do you justify that as a gun control crisis?

 

[Hi-Dro]

I do take it seriously, but they're different. Suicide is purely a mental health issue. Not a gun control issue. If someone kills themself at school by any other means it's just a suicide. If they shot themselves it's on par with a school shooting?

That doesn't make sense, unless your only concern is gun control and you want to find any example you can to reenforce your stance. Those cases go with the crisis of suicide, you can't have those for your mass murder arguement. They're handling that already in a way that isn't applicable to gun control.

Accidental discharges are a safety concern, not a gun control issue. Those were officers and security that accidentally discharged. How do you justify that as a gun control crisis?

I would agree with this also mass murder could have a mental health angle too it. I dont know much of the facts about this case but most of the time, the kids are from a shitty background,get bullied at school and sometimes even by teachers, I'm not saying its right to go shooting shit up, but every body has a breaking point.