Trump personally pressured Justice Department officials to declare that the election was corrupt

Xzi · Aug 1, 2021

jimbo13 said:
Make States, States again.

What the hell is this supposed to mean? If we didn't have state governments, we wouldn't have legal weed anywhere. People wouldn't be able to add Medicare-for-all as a ballot measure despite the bourgeoisie rejecting it on the federal level. States have the same power they always did, that doesn't mean it should be legal to suppress voting rights and restrict access to voting. Which is really what you're angry about here: that people who normally wouldn't have the time or means to vote in previous elections were given that access via mail-in ballots in 2020. They still had to be registered (for several months prior), and have a valid mailing address. Cases of fraud in review barely numbered double digits, and came mostly from Trump voters.

Lacius · Aug 1, 2021

jimbo13 said:
I don't object to in mail in balloting in general, I object to it being tacked on last minute in the midst of of an emergency and relaxing measures surrounding it.

Just because a rule makes sense doesn't make it proper to tack it on at the last minute over the objections of the other participants. Election process can't be partisan and maintain a functional system.

Just because you can, doesn't mean it people are going to accept it. And the right was very vocal, "if this change is made do not expect acceptance or cooperation."

Fair and accurate, when a society can't agree on what constitutes a fair election anymore they probably shouldn't share a government. Make States, States again.

Let me know when you find a problem with the mail-in voting systems or any other aspect of the 2020 election. Until then, it's premature and hypocritical to call the 2020 election corrupt or fraudulent.

jimbo13 · Aug 1, 2021

Lacius said:
Let me know when you find a problem with the mail-in voting systems or any other aspect of the 2020 election. Until then, it's premature and hypocritical to call the 2020 election corrupt or fraudulent.

It was a deliberate fraud to use Covid to institute last minute procedural changes that were known to benefit Biden. If you don't like people saying it was corrupt, fraudulent and that Biden is illegitimate it's hypocritical to support those rule changes over the objections of the other participants.

Lacius · Aug 1, 2021

jimbo13 said:
It was a deliberate fraud to use Covid to institute last minute procedural changes that were known to benefit Biden.

"Fraud" is a very specific claim. What was fraudulent about expanding pre-existing mail voting during a pandemic, and can you demonstrate the fraud?

jimbo13 said:
it's hypocritical to support those rule changes over the objections of the other participants.

I don't like people saying an election was corrupt and fraudulent when they can't demonstrate their claims. Claims made without evidence can be easily dismissed as nonsense.

jimbo13 said:
it's hypocritical to support those rule changes over the objections of the other participants.

How is this hypocritical?

Sicklyboy · Aug 1, 2021

I'm pretty sure I asked jimbo for proof of the election fraud back in like... January? December?

To nobody's surprise, 8 months later he still can't do anything except flail his arms and screech "fraud! fraud!"

seany1990 · Aug 1, 2021

Massive dumps

KingVamp · Aug 1, 2021

Sicklyboy said:
I'm pretty sure I asked jimbo for proof of the election fraud back in like... January? December?

To nobody's surprise, 8 months later he still can't do anything except flail his arms and screech "fraud! fraud!"

Did you know? Anything he doesn't like, is fraud.

jimbo13 · Aug 1, 2021

Lacius said:
"Fraud" is a very specific claim. What was fraudulent about expanding pre-existing mail voting during a pandemic, and can you demonstrate the fraud?

I don't like people saying an election was corrupt and fraudulent when they can't demonstrate their claims. Claims made without evidence can be easily dismissed as nonsense.

How is this hypocritical?

Your not disputing my material claims, which are last minute changes ballot process's were instituted.

If participants enter a contest under a certain set of rules and you change the rules near the commencement of the event, under duress, protest and objection of the participants I consider that a fraud, you are welcome to disagree but there is nothing unreasonable about that stance you aren't debunking anything.

Your position is " I think it's fair and reasonable to use pandemic hysteria to institute rule changes that benefit my Candidate" and your welcome to it, but others are going to continue to call that behavior fraudulent and corrupt.

Sicklyboy · Aug 1, 2021

jimbo13 said:
institute rule changes that benefit my Candidate

Trump spends a year telling his fan base that mail in votes are fraudulent.
Trump's fan base doesn't use mail in votes because he spent a year telling them they'd be fraudulent.

Now, I may not be the best at math, but I know what you get when you put two and two together.

jimbo13 · Aug 1, 2021

Sicklyboy said:
I'm pretty sure I asked jimbo for proof of the election fraud back in like... January? December?

To nobody's surprise, 8 months later he still can't do anything except flail his arms and screech "fraud! fraud!"

I am pretty sure I avoid engaging you, because you antagonize conservatives then use moderation when your losing.

Sicklyboy · Aug 1, 2021

jimbo13 said:
I am pretty sure I avoid engaging you, because you antagonize conservatives then use moderation when your losing.

Sorry that you can't handle being proven wrong.

Edit - actually, when has that happened? None of your warnings are even from me.

Lacius · Aug 1, 2021

jimbo13 said:
Your not disputing my material claims, which are last minute changes ballot process's were instituted.

If participants enter a contest under a certain set of rules and you change the rules near the commencement of the event, under duress, protest and objection of the participants I consider that a fraud, you are welcome to disagree but there is nothing unreasonable about that stance you aren't debunking anything.

Your position is " I think it's fair and reasonable to use pandemic hysteria to institute rule changes that benefit my Candidate" and your welcome to it, but others are going to continue to call that behavior fraudulent and corrupt.

If you are going to argue that rules were changed with the purpose of benefiting Biden, using COVID-19 as a pretense, you have to demonstrate that. That's going to be difficult to do, considering how many GOP-controlled states instituted mail voting.
Even if rules were changed to broaden access to voting with the purpose of helping Biden win (this is not what happened), it wouldn't make the election fraudulent, corrupt, etc. It's the Republicans' problem if they can't compete in democratic elections.
The "rules" of the election were not changed. It's not like electoral vote counts per state were changed in October. Access to voting was merely broadened. The candidates were still playing by the same rules. Generally speaking, if a candidate gets more votes in a state, that candidate gets those electoral votes.
When you remove COVID-19 from the equation, there's no data that supports the claim that mail voting benefits Democratic candidates. The only reason that argument can be made is because of how COVID-19 was politicized and downplayed by one side.
If mitigations hadn't been applied to the election, you would have had a lot of likely Democratic voters stay at home rather than vote and potentially contract COVID-19. I say they are likely Democratic voters because they are the ones who were more likely to take the pandemic seriously. That would have been the real disenfranchisement of voters.

The Catboy · Aug 1, 2021

jimbo13 said:
There is no evidence everyone shares your opinion on subjective terms like "widespread" or mail in ballots are safe.

If mail in ballots are safe and secure so is mail order ammo.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Do you ever have any metrics that aren't entirely subjective? Perception is reality, if people don't trust election integrity elections carry no meaning.

Crimes don't need to be widespread to pass laws to prevent them.

That doesn’t look like any sources. You should be able to provide sources to back up your claims.

Sicklyboy said:
Sorry that you can't handle being proven wrong.

Edit - actually, when has that happened? None of your warnings are even from me.

Jimbo just like to make stuff up to get mad about it later.

Sicklyboy · Aug 1, 2021

Lilith Valentine said:
That doesn’t look like any sources. You should be able to provide sources to back up your claims.

Jimbo just like to make stuff up to get mad about it later.

Lol I didn't even read that post. He's really suggesting we should be able to mail explosives. The mind boggles.

The Catboy · Aug 1, 2021

Sicklyboy said:
Lol I didn't even read that post. He's really suggesting we should be able to mail explosives. The mind boggles.

I didn’t either, lol. I just look to see if he actually posted a link, fully knowing it just going to be some self-righteous rant about how right he is or some other excuse to not provide a single source

jimbo13 · Aug 1, 2021

Sicklyboy said:
Lol I didn't even read that post. He's really suggesting we should be able to mail explosives. The mind boggles.

We already send all manner of "explosives" thru the mail, you can get black powder thru the mail.

Same with gun powder construction fasteners that use the same amount of "explosive" material as a firearm round.

I can get 0.22 single shot construction bullets that will load in my rifle off Amazon right now.
https://www.amazon.com/Caliber-Yell...d=1&keywords=gun+powder&qid=1627779329&sr=8-8

Mail order firearm restrictions have nothing to with this spontaneous discharge delusion you have.

I support synergy between firearm and ballot registration, owning a fire arm is a right, voting is a right.

If you wouldn't give someone a gun without ID or mail it to them without any manner or control of verification involved, you shouldn't support giving them a ballot.

Sicklyboy · Aug 1, 2021

jimbo13 said:
We already send all manner of "explosives" thru the mail, you can get black powder thru the mail.

Same with gun powder construction fasteners that use the same amount of "explosive" material as a firearm round.

I can get 0.22 single shot construction bullets that will load in my rifle off Amazon right now.
https://www.amazon.com/Caliber-Yell...d=1&keywords=gun+powder&qid=1627779329&sr=8-8

I mean those aren't bullets, those are cartridges without a bullet, and they're for tools, not guns (...technically), but TIL you could buy those online. Had no idea.

jimbo13 said:
I support synergy between firearm and ballot registration, owning a fire arm is a right, voting is a right

So is abortion but conservatives have no problem trying to take those rights away, so maybe sit down for a second.

jimbo13 said:
If you wouldn't give someone a gun without ID or mail it to them without verification any manner or control of verification involved, you shouldn't support giving them a ballot.

When did the goalposts get moved? I thought we were talking about mail in ballots and ammunition, not mail in ballots and guns.

The Catboy · Aug 1, 2021

jimbo13 said:
We already send all manner of "explosives" thru the mail, you can get black powder thru the mail.

Same with gun powder construction fasteners that use the same amount of "explosive" material as a firearm round.

I can get 0.22 single shot construction bullets that will load in my rifle off Amazon right now.
https://www.amazon.com/Caliber-Yell...d=1&keywords=gun+powder&qid=1627779329&sr=8-8

Mail order firearm restrictions have nothing to with this spontaneous discharge delusion you have.

I support synergy between firearm and ballot registration, owning a fire arm is a right, voting is a right.

If you wouldn't give someone a gun without ID or mail it to them without any manner or control of verification involved, you shouldn't support giving them a ballot.

That’s a lot of words with no evidence for widespread election fraud

jimbo13 · Aug 1, 2021

Sicklyboy said:
I mean those aren't bullets, those are cartridges without a bullet, and they're for tools, not guns (...technically), but TIL you could buy those online. Had no idea.

When did the goalposts get moved? I thought we were talking about mail in ballots and ammunition, not mail in ballots and guns.

My point was guns and ammo are transported in planes & on trucks via fedex, UPS, USPS all the same they go make you pick them up in person in a gun shop so they can CHECK YOUR ID AND MAKE SURE YOU ARE LEGALLY ELIGIBLE TO PARTICIPATE.

It should be the same rules for voting.

Sicklyboy · Aug 1, 2021

jimbo13 said:
My point was guns and ammo are transported in planes & on trucks via fedex, UPS, USPS all the same they go make you pick them up in person in a gun shop so they can CHECK YOUR ID AND MAKE SURE YOU ARE LEGALLY ELIGIBLE TO PARTICIPATE.

It should be the same rules for voting.

That's a 100% valid opinion to hold, and with some nuance, not one I entirely disagree with.

That doesn't mean that mail in votes are fraudulent though.

Side note, always makes me chuckle how the so called party of small government actively wants the government to impose itself more and more on people's business and rights. So weird, isn't it?

Trump personally pressured Justice Department officials to declare that the election was corrupt

Time to fly, 621

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