Joe Biden is now officially the 46th President of the United States of America

Lacius · Feb 15, 2021

SG854 said:
Basis for Embarrassment shouldn't be who and who didn't get the popular vote.

Bernie Sanders didn't get the popular vote for both times Trump ran for president. Elizabeth Warren didn't get the popular vote. Bernie had to drop out. He couldn't even make it to the end, to the election semi finals, something Trump did.

Unless you thinks Bernies policies are horrible. Deserves to drop out, and is therefore an embarrassment.

I think impeachment is a better indicator for embarrassment.

I think both can be indicators for embarrassment. I'd argue being impeached twice is far more embarrassing then an election loss though.

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tabzer said:
I think that is idealistic thinking, still. Every impeachment in my history had always been politically motivated and on a downward spiral.

Bipartisan majorities in both the House and Senate voted to convict Trump, and when you include the senators like McConnell who probably would have otherwise voted to convict if not for his misguided issues with the constitutionality of the impeachment. It was not politically motivated. It's hard (but not impossible) to argue it was politically motivated when it was after he left office.

SG854 · Feb 15, 2021

Lacius said:
I think both can be indicators for embarrassment. I'd argue being impeached twice is far more embarrassing then an election loss though.

They can be but it depends on context to.

I've always been for the under dog that has good ideas. Sometimes the under dog doesn't win the popularity contest. Not because they are bad but because of certain circumstances, whether it's because they didn't advertise themselves well enough, or some other situation.

You are not always going to be number 1 winner. Someone with good ideas but fails to win the popular vote is not basis for embarrassment. Someone with bad ideas and looses the popular vote is basis for embarrassment.

Lacius · Feb 15, 2021

SG854 said:
They can be but it depends on context to.

I've always been for the under dog that has good ideas. Sometimes the under dog doesn't win the popularity contest. Not because they are bad but because of certain circumstances, whether it's because they didn't advertise themselves well enough, or some other situation.

You are not always going to be number 1 winner. Someone with good ideas but fails to win the popular vote is not basis for embarrassment. Someone with bad ideas and looses the popular vote is basis for embarrassment.

To be fair, Trump is the only person to lose the popular vote twice in a presidential election. It's pretty embarrassing.

SG854 · Feb 15, 2021

Lacius said:
To be fair, Trump is the only person to lose the popular vote twice in a presidential election. It's pretty embarrassing.

Ya, so did Bernie but I wouldn't call Bernie an embarrassing candidate. He had some interesting ideas. Or any of the other candidates that didn't win president.

Lacius · Feb 15, 2021

SG854 said:
Ya, so did Bernie but I wouldn't call Bernie an embarrassing candidate. He had some interesting ideas. Or any of the other candidates that didn't win president.

Bernie never ran in the general election.

SG854 · Feb 15, 2021

Lacius said:
Bernie never ran in the general election.

He couldn't even make it in the general election. Which should be an embarrassment. But I wouldn't call him an embarrassment.

tabzer · Feb 15, 2021

Success for these people are not based on "embarrassment" holding them back. I mean, the majority of "successful people" have experienced situations which should be embarrassing, by your standard, more than the typical individual tenfold, but they kept trying anyway until they succeeded. It's because they learn to be shameless that they achieve a lucrative political career.

Also, the idea that politics is truly a bipartisan struggle where politicians are fighting for ideology is a fantasy, ignoring reality tv show applied science.

The whole Trump being impeached is embarrassing narrative is rather stupid considering that from the beginning he has posed himself as being against the self-serving machine--so things like impeachment will only fuel that narrative. I'm saying this despite how stupid the actual impeachment was, which makes me suspect that Trump is apart of the puppet show.

Lacius · Feb 15, 2021

SG854 said:
He couldn't even make it in the general election. Which should be an embarrassment. But I wouldn't call him an embarrassment.

I wouldn't say the primary elections and the general election are comparable. They don't even have comparable electorates. Biden is also one of many people to have run in a presidential primary and lost. Trump is the only person to ever lose the popular vote twice.

Ulieq · Feb 15, 2021

1. Remove Filibuster in Senate
2. Make Washington DC a State (votes are there)
3. Make Puerto Rico a Sate (votes are there)

Doing this would increase the Senate to 104, plus increase the house ( a rebalance would be nessssary).

Lacius · Feb 15, 2021

Ulieq said:
1. Remove Filibuster in Senate
2. Make Washington DC a State (votes are there)
3. Make Puerto Rico a Sate (votes are there)

Doing this would increase the Senate to 104, plus increase the house ( a rebalance would be nessssary).

These are a great alternative to abolishing the Senate entirely or making it a representative body.

SG854 · Feb 15, 2021

Lacius said:
I wouldn't say the primary elections and the general election are comparable. They don't even have comparable electorates. Biden is also one of many people to have run in a presidential primary and lost. Trump is the only person to ever lose the popular vote twice.

Primaries are a mess. It even led to Democrats creating super delegates because of it. It needs some amending.

Lacius · Feb 15, 2021

SG854 said:
Primaries are a mess. It even led to Democrats creating super delegates because of it. It needs some amending.

The primaries are a mess.

The Democratic primary should be by popular vote, there should be no caucuses, and states' primary elections should be within the same general timeframe (e.g. March-April). Superdelegates should be eliminated, but they're effectively gone already if a candidate gets a majority of delegates on the first round.

SG854 · Feb 15, 2021

Lacius said:
The primaries are a mess.

The Democratic primary should be by popular vote, there should be no caucuses, and states' primary elections should be within the same general timeframe (e.g. March-April). Superdelegates should be eliminated, but they're effectively gone already if a candidate gets a majority of delegates on the first round.

It's an unessecary complicated process.

At least Bernie Sanders broke Super Delegates in 2016. Next step it to remove it like you said. And Amend the constitution.

Lacius · Feb 15, 2021

SG854 said:
It's an unessecary complicated process.

At least Bernie Sanders broke Super Delegates in 2016. Next step it to remove it like you said. And Amend the constitution.

Amend the Constitution to do what, get rid of the Electoral College? I agree.

The Democratic Party has almost complete control over how they run their primary elections. They could choose tomorrow not to use delegates and do a popular vote system instead. If they're going to decry the Electoral College, they should show it.

Valwinz · Feb 15, 2021

Ulieq said:
1. Remove Filibuster in Senate
2. Make Washington DC a State (votes are there)
3. Make Puerto Rico a Sate (votes are there)

Repeat after me
not happening

Plasmaster09 · Feb 15, 2021

II

Lacius said:
Amend the Constitution to do what, get rid of the Electoral College? I agree.

The Democratic Party has complete control over how they run their primary elections. They could choose tomorrow not to use delegates and do a popular vote system instead. If they're going to decry the Electoral College, they should show it.

I mean... the Electoral College exists because the Founders nearly pissed themselves at their newly-found democracy being truly democratic and wanted to avoid all the decisions actually being made based on the will of the people, so trashing it is a pretty obvious thing to do.

Valwinz said:
Repeat after me
not happening

Well, the DC one isn't.
However, Puerto Rico absolutely deserves statehood, and the Republicans are likely to abuse the filibuster to kingdom come in order to wall Biden from doing anything.
(And a nice fringe benefit of PR statehood is that the Senate would actually total a multiple of three, so annoying two-thirds-required decisions are easier to figure out!)

Lacius · Feb 15, 2021

Valwinz said:
Repeat after me
not happening

Any of these three could happen, even if others don't happen. There's also no convincing reason to be against any of these things.

SG854 · Feb 15, 2021

Plasmaster09 said:
II
I mean... the Electoral College exists because the Founders nearly pissed themselves at their newly-found democracy being truly democratic and wanted to avoid all the decisions actually being made based on the will of the people, so trashing it is a pretty obvious thing to do.

Well, the DC one isn't.
However, Puerto Rico absolutely deserves statehood, and the Republicans are likely to abuse the filibuster to kingdom come in order to wall Biden from doing anything.
(And a nice fringe benefit of PR statehood is that the Senate would actually total a multiple of three, so annoying two-thirds-required decisions are easier to figure out!)

Electoral College is a product of its time. When information had to be sent via horses. There was no instant messages passed online. You are judging based on your privileges of today.

It's outdated in today's world and needs some changing.

KingVamp · Feb 15, 2021

Ulieq said:
2. Make Washington DC a State (votes are there)
3. Make Puerto Rico a Sate (votes are there)

Doing this would increase the Senate to 104

Just waiting for all the "New 52" jokes, if these get passed.

Ulieq said:
plus increase the house ( a rebalance would be nessssary).

I'm in favor of the Wyoming rule.

Lacius · Feb 15, 2021

KingVamp said:
Just waiting for all the "New 52" jokes, if these get passed.

I'm in favor of the Wyoming rule.

And the Senate should become a representative body or abolished entirely. Each state's number of senators should be based on its population.

Joe Biden is now officially the 46th President of the United States of America

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