Joe Biden is now officially the 46th President of the United States of America

[Lacius]

I am witnessing such a strong faith here. Good to see that the spirit dwells in @Lacius, the true believer. Obviously he is the authority on what is embarrassing.

• Two popular vote losses
• Two impeachments
• Whining about fake voter fraud and instigating an insurrection instead of conceding his loss
• About to face multiple criminal investigations/indictments

The facts speak for themselves.

 

[tabzer]

The facts speak for themselves.

Oh leader, please tell me how to decipher this ironic statement. Let us unite to hate Trump and silence all of the tyrants. Amen.

 

[Lacius]

Oh leader, please tell me how to decipher this ironic statement. Let us unite to hate Trump and silence all of the tyrants. Amen.

I don't think you know what irony is. Feel free to tag me when you've decided to post something of substance.

 

[FAST6191]

BLM is a peaceful protest movement against systemic racism. The riots at the Capitol were, by design, an attempted insurrection against the United States stoked by false claims of voter fraud and instigated by Trump so he could use the riots as leverage to overturn the election. Don't be disingenuous.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


Nobody wanted to impeach Trump, particularly with the small chance of a conviction in the Senate, but Trump's actions were so deplorable that the precedent couldn't be set that those kinds of actions were acceptable and wouldn't result in consequences like impeachment. In other words, I'm sorry Trump sucks so bad.

Trump was acquitted because conviction requires a 2/3 majority in the Senate. In reality, Trump received bipartisan majorities to convict, and many of the Republicans voted to acquit because they didn't think a president could be impeached after leaving office, not because they thought he wasn't guilty.

Trump is an embarrassment who lost the popular vote twice, is a one-term president, and got impeached twice. The fact that seven Republican senators voted for his conviction is also embarrassing. In other words, Trump was acquitted twice, but how many times was Obama acquitted? The answer: not applicable.

On impeachments vs acquittals.
Is a man not deemed innocent unless and until convicted? Being as this would presumably want to be held to criminal standards (sedition tending to be a serious affair rather than payment for work done or something) then 2/3 would also seem to be on the lower side -- criminal conviction these days needing to be unanimous for serious offences https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/20/politics/scotus-jury-verdict-criminal-trial/index.html .
I am also not quite sure what the unacceptable actions were. Loosely following the case and getting a nice timeline (and means, motive, opportunity) type assessment going on I would have struggled to get a discipline action going on in a job where social meeja is made hard to use, and if that somehow does rise to such levels then if things are going to be applied equally (and without regard for any kind of free speech notions) then there are going to be a lot of people from all over the political spectrum that are going to be waiting for that knock on the door (which for the sake of stating it would not be for me -- free speech and all that).
The whole case was a bit of a farce though -- for a room full of lawyers that was an awful show.

As far as BLM.
From where I sit there is black lives matter the notion, and black lives matter the organisation ( https://blacklivesmatter.com/herstory/ , and that is arguably a toned down version -- go through archives and their international efforts which seemingly fall under the greater umbrella and... yeah), and there are many parallels with other organisations and "movements" (anonymous the hacker collective, atheism vs Atheism+, any number of religious classifications). You can happily be for or against one or both of them, or think one or both (and subsets) misguided to varying degrees, and indeed given the prevailing notions of politics in the US (all men created equal, content of character rather than colour of skin, and all that) the organisation might be quite unpalatable as far as their aims, driving logic and the like. Failure to police their own or adequately distance themselves is also a charge that might be levelled. You could also subsume it into the notion of all lives matter, or a similar notion meaning much the same thing if that is too loaded a term for your taste, if you think their charges are not unique to black people if you wanted. I am not particularly seeing the rationales for any of it -- there are some arsehole police but it is a vanishingly small contingent and they usually get theirs before too long if that is going to be the rallying cry.

Capitol riots. That was the lamest insurrection in history if it was -- janitors clearing up on normal schedule and attendees that were not dead or arrested (which is most of them) could have quite happily had a marginally late dinner in a local bar/attend happy hour. Such an insurrection would barely have knocked over a small Caribbean island, never mind somewhere like the US where they had no military support, the government could have watched it all from actually the buildings of government themselves (never mind bunkers) and gone back to work the day after.
Whatever flavour of trespass, damage, theft and violence they might be guilty of then go secure convictions if you want -- do the crime and hey they might be time for it.

As far as systemic racism, which is to say the system under which those of a given race (or races) are oppressed by the law, law enforcement, by the services provided or supported by the government (education, healthcare, housing, financial support...), and otherwise ignored in non government institutions that might seek to perpetuate it or operate under the principles, I am not seeing it for the US. Now if you are poor that is a different matter, and indeed poverty might well not be an even split if you categorise by race and do the percentages. Whether that is the fault of a system, or better addressed by "you are black/[insert ethnicity/race] therefore" or "you are poor therefore" would be a separate discussion. I would favour the latter -- you can demonstrably be black and do all there is to do in society, indeed many do, poverty however does rather beget poverty and that is before personal choices are factored into things (teen pregnancy for example https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/teen-births.htm -- if twice the rate then you tend to expect problems there, https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_13-508.pdf having tables on later pages but 13 is a good start. https://vittana.org/teen-pregnancy-and-poverty looks like it has some nice stats but I am up for a better source, and that is before considering the compounding effect of it possibly happening for a couple of generations now).
If the government sees that their black population is as a whole not having the best lot in life and seeks to improve it, a reasonable goal for a government to have, then 50 billion going and disappearing all 5 white supremacists that still remain vs 50 billion encouraging business, making for security, possibly juicing up education (though I would have further preferences there, especially as it pertains to the BLM demands for such things https://www.blacklivesmatteratschool.com/the-demands.html https://www.blacklivesmatteratschool.com/curriculum.html https://www.blacklivesmatteratschool.com/13-guiding-principles.html . I hope that is not a troll site but appears legit, even if it seems to fail to link back to things) then let us talk further -- such things tend to want to be rather surgical in nature as opening up a pork barrel vs teaching a man to fish...

 

[Lacius]

As far as systemic racism, which is to say the system under which those of a given race (or races) are oppressed by the law, law enforcement, by the services provided or supported by the government (education, healthcare, housing, financial support...), and otherwise ignored in non government institutions that might seek to perpetuate it or operate under the principles, I am not seeing it for the US.

It takes a certain kind of privilege to not even see the systemic racism in the United States.

 

[tabzer]

I don't think you know what irony is. Feel free to tag me when you've decided to post something of substance.

Please start thinking for me, because if facts speak for themselves, then I don't understand why you are talking.

 

[Lacius]

Please start thinking for me, because if facts speak for themselves, then I don't understand why you are talking.

The facts don't literally speak for themselves. It's an idiom that means I can present the facts, and I don't even need to explain how they're embarrassing because it's so obvious. Instead of worrying about whether or not I'm trying to think for you, perhaps you should worry about thinking for yourself. This isn't the first time in recent memory that you've posted nonsense that contributes nothing of substance to the discourse.

 

[tabzer]

The facts don't literally speak for themselves. It's an idiom that means I can present the facts, and I don't even need to explain how they're embarrassing because it's so obvious. Instead of worrying about whether or not I'm trying to think for you, perhaps you should worry about thinking for yourself. This isn't the first time in recent memory that you've posted nonsense that contributes nothing of substance to the discourse.

Well you are right about nonsense, but your reference to "the discourse" seems to be about keeping the conversation one sided.



Also:

https://gab.com/Artraven/posts/105714720761743853

 

[Lacius]

Well you are right about nonsense, but your reference to "the discourse" seems to be about keeping the conversation one sided.

Evidence wasn't manipulated. The part of the video you claim was absent (it was actually referenced by the House impeachment managers) doesn't change the facts of the case, and bipartisan majorities in the House and the Senate voted to convict Trump.

Also, great job at changing the subject from your embarrassing shitposts from earlier today and my responses to them. Kudos.

 

[FAST6191]

It takes a certain kind of privilege to not even see the systemic racism in the United States.

Did we not do this yesterday? https://gbatemp.net/threads/joe-bid...states-of-america.581277/page-80#post-9365511

But we could argue semantics and what I deem imaginary concepts. What might be easier is convince me there is such a thing as systemic racism presently active in the US, especially to such a degree that I need to consider it a priority or keep it in mind.

From where I sit and what I have seen having both observed things, lived there for months in various states talking to hundreds of people across the social strata, looked at stats, and generally contemplated life there
Folks of all ethnicities seem free to live their lives how they will, work, own businesses, own property, be shown in and create popular culture, not be taxed on the basis of, become players in big businesses, have actively enforced laws saying don't discriminate, do education (sometimes even be assisted into it), not have laws to the detriment of them, not have enforcement favour or disfavour, run for and attain political office of all stripes, do the whole military thing, ideas of discrimination (give or take "positive discrimination" in some instances) tend not to be pervasive in society, get assistance from the government and other institutions, have the law smack someone when they wronged them... and all in rates that would rather defy a 'only a token few are allowed through just so we have something to point at and say "not us, look at that"' type notion.

If I were to take a simple metric like population totals and classifications, various stats like poverty rate, income, education... then would it not mirror everything else? Sure. Do I care though? Does it need to be the same? If those that want it can generally achieve it then is that not all that was promised?

The idea that there is a large scale conscious or subconscious attempt to keep the non whiteys down (possibly while pulling all the good pure white skinned folks riding high, though that can be separate and still left to Darwin there -- still plenty of white folks in dire straights with an awful quality of life)... it is an awful attempt at it if so, and plenty of countries do it far better (middle east, Japan, China, various parts of Africa, Russia to various extents, the US itself a lifetime or more ago...).
I would also return to if I were to attempt to improve the lot in life of black people that pumping billions into hunting down the racists that might exist (above and beyond what they already are) vs encouraging proper sustainable long term growth, security and whatever else then what would I expect a better return on my investment for?

 

[tabzer]

Also, great job at changing the subject from your embarrassing shitposts from earlier today and my responses to them. Kudos.

Sorry it is embarrassing for you. I posted this video earlier today, but you chose to ignore it while chasing low-hanging fruit. Please tell me how I should respond in advance, next time, so I don't risk embarrassing you. If your rebuttal to it is simply denial, coupled with an argument with something I've never said, then it just affirms that I should take even less effort in communicating seriously with you. I mean, "the facts speak for themselves".

 

[Lacius]

Did we not do this yesterday? https://gbatemp.net/threads/joe-bid...states-of-america.581277/page-80#post-9365511

But we could argue semantics and what I deem imaginary concepts. What might be easier is convince me there is such a thing as systemic racism presently active in the US, especially to such a degree that I need to consider it a priority or keep it in mind.

From where I sit and what I have seen having both observed things, lived there for months in various states talking to hundreds of people across the social strata, looked at stats, and generally contemplated life there
Folks of all ethnicities seem free to live their lives how they will, work, own businesses, own property, be shown in and create popular culture, not be taxed on the basis of, become players in big businesses, have actively enforced laws saying don't discriminate, do education (sometimes even be assisted into it), not have laws to the detriment of them, not have enforcement favour or disfavour, run for and attain political office of all stripes, do the whole military thing, ideas of discrimination (give or take "positive discrimination" in some instances) tend not to be pervasive in society, get assistance from the government and other institutions, have the law smack someone when they wronged them... and all in rates that would rather defy a 'only a token few are allowed through just so we have something to point at and say "not us, look at that"' type notion.

If I were to take a simple metric like population totals and classifications, various stats like poverty rate, income, education... then would it not mirror everything else? Sure. Do I care though? Does it need to be the same? If those that want it can generally achieve it then is that not all that was promised?

The idea that there is a large scale conscious or subconscious attempt to keep the non whiteys down (possibly while pulling all the good pure white skinned folks riding high, though that can be separate and still left to Darwin there -- still plenty of white folks in dire straights with an awful quality of life)... it is an awful attempt at it if so, and plenty of countries do it far better (middle east, Japan, China, various parts of Africa, Russia to various extents, the US itself a lifetime or more ago...).
I would also return to if I were to attempt to improve the lot in life of black people that pumping billions into hunting down the racists that might exist (above and beyond what they already are) vs encouraging proper sustainable long term growth, security and whatever else then what would I expect a better return on my investment for?

It's ridiculous, and from a place of privilege, to suggest that all politicians are self-serving. Many politicians from the Democratic side care deeply about issues of income inequality, human-caused connate change, LGBT issues, etc., for example. Many politicians from the Democratic side enter the world of politics from a place of civil rights activism, etc.

It's ridiculous, and from a place of privilege, to suggest (contrary to virtually all the facts) that systemic racism does not exist in the United States. Your privilege is especially evident by you saying you personally "don't see" the systemic racism.

No amount of rambling is going to change the facts above, and to be candid, I'm fatigued and burnt out from educating privileged people about their privilege.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Sorry it is embarrassing for you. I posted this video earlier today, but you chose to ignore it while chasing low-hanging fruit. Please tell me how I should respond in advance, next time, so I don't risk embarrassing you. If your rebuttal to it is simply denial, coupled with an argument with something I've never said, then it just affirms that I should take even less effort in communicating seriously with you. I mean, "the facts speak for themselves".

I'm not obligated to respond to everything everyone posts, I'm not obligated to see everything everyone posts, and I'm definitely not obligated to watch every video everyone posts. I've also already responded to the asinine video. I'm not the one who should be embarrassed, and I'm not sure why you're suggesting I'm embarrassed. Try again.

 

[FAST6191]

It's ridiculous, and from a place of privilege, to suggest that all politicians are self-serving. Many politicians from the Democratic side care deeply about issues of income inequality, human-caused connate change, LGBT issues, etc., for example. Many politicians from the Democratic side enter the world of politics from a place of civil rights activism, etc.

It's ridiculous, and from a place of privilege, to suggest (contrary to virtually all the facts) that systemic racism does not exist in the United States. Your privilege is especially evident by you saying you personally "don't see" the systemic racism.

No amount of rambling is going to change the facts above, and to be candid, I'm fatigued and burnt out from educating privileged people about their privilege.

So your choice in debate is mere dismissal?

Amusingly I imagine we are actually very close in what would we like to see achieved. If you can't convince someone as close as I might be to you to follow along in your world view then what chance do you have of convincing someone else that might actually be further away in political alignment?

Good luck with furthering your goals I guess.

 

[tabzer]

Privileged man will tell you that your perspective is void, due to privilege, from parent's basement.

Also, trust the altruistic politicians.

I'm not obligated to respond to everything everyone posts, I'm not obligated to see everything everyone posts, and I'm definitely not obligated to watch every video everyone posts. I've also already responded to the asinine video. I'm not the one who should be embarrassed, and I'm not sure why you're suggesting I'm embarrassed. Try again.

First part I notice is that you are arguing against a non-existent argument, as I pointed out the nature of your choice to chase low-hanging fruit. I don't even assume that you "owe anyone" the "truth", let alone honest self-representation. I already assume you are a shill, and I don't think you owe it to anyone to not be a shill. (Maybe yourself, but then again, maybe you deserve it). Second point, the first time I noticed you responding to the "asinine video" was in a way that just looks embarrassing for you (assuming you were capable of being self-conscious) as all you posted was "No." in response to an actual proof. And "try again"? I'm doing exactly what I want to do here.

 

[Valwinz]

The US is so racist that it give BLM millions of money and we still don't know what exactly they did with it

BLM was a scam one of the biggest in recent memory

 

[Lacius]

So your choice in debate is mere dismissal?

Amusingly I imagine we are actually very close in what would we like to see achieved. If you can't convince someone as close as I might be to you to follow along in your world view then what chance do you have of convincing someone else that might actually be further away in political alignment?

Good luck with furthering your goals I guess.

As I've said numerous times over the months (years?), when it comes to political threads, I don't respond to people's posts for the person I'm responding to; I respond to people's posts for all of the people watching the thread who might actually learn something. I understand very much that I'm unlikely to convince conservatives I respond to of anything, but I know for a fact I've convinced various lurkers who might have previously considered themselves to he conservatives.

Respectfully and frankly, your posts tend to ramble nonsensically off-topic, and I generally find a lot of them to be difficult to respond to. They're not very concise, and I have to weed through a lot of irrelevant asides to find what needs to be responded to.

In reality, people of color face far more instances of police violence than their white counterparts. There is a double standard in this country where white people can protest COVID restrictions while armed, and unarmed Black people and protest systemic racism only to be met with police violence. There is an economic divide between Black people and White people because of the history of slavery and institutionalized racism. The slave ancestors of Black people started at zero when slavery ended, while White people started with all the wealth that they used to educate the next generation and pass on to them as well. Institutionalized racism such as red lining and job discrimination created a disadvantage for Black people, and the economic effects of this can still be seen today. Studies repeatedly show job discrimination when sending in the exact same resumes and only changing the race or the name in a way that suggests a racial difference.

There is inarguably systemic racism in this country, and I'm fatigued from addressing it so often to people who irrationally want to deny it. I don't use the word "inarguable" lightly. Unlike other issues (impeachment, minimum wage, etc.) arguing against someone who flatly denies systemic racism exists is like arguing against someone who claims the Earth is flat. At a point, you realize you're just banging your head against the wall.

Candidly: You; your privilege; your stubbornness; your refusal to educate yourself; your ignorance; your rambling irrelevant posts; your pretentiousness; your high horse; and frankly, your racism can fuck off. You don't need to tell me I'm doing a bad job convincing you of my view. That's not my goal, and you're not that important.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Privileged man will tell you that your perspective is void, due to privilege, from parent's basement.

Also, trust the altruistic politicians.



First part I notice is that you are arguing against a non-existent argument, as I pointed out the nature of your choice to chase low-hanging fruit. I don't even assume that you "owe anyone" the "truth", let alone honest self-representation. I already assume you are a shill, and I don't think you owe it to anyone to not be a shill. (Maybe yourself, but then again, maybe you deserve it). Second point, the first time I noticed you responding to the "asinine video" was in a way that just looks embarrassing for you (assuming you were capable of being self-conscious) as all you posted was "No." in response to an actual proof. And "try again"? I'm doing exactly what I want to do here.

You complain that I don't read, watch, or respond to everything you post, but why should I read anything past "basement" when you're going to lob baseless personal attacks?

As concisely as possible, preferably in one sentence, what's the non-existent argument I'm arguing against?

An argument without substance or evidence can be dismissed without substance or evidence. You posted a video of Trump speaking that wasn't presented in its entirety at the impeachment. The entirety didn't change the facts, and parts of the video you claim were omitted were actually acknowledged and referenced. What more do you want?

 

[tabzer]

You complain that I don't read, watch, or respond to everything you post, but why should I read anything past "basement" when you're going to lob baseless personal attacks?

Frankly I'm having fun mocking your style of selective argument to keep things dumb. I don't remember the last time I complained about something. It's possible I did.

Seeing as you have a lot more free time than me and have dedicated years to hone your online persona "for everyone to witness", it really does seem like you contribute nothing to society. So "wah wah" I guess.

 

[SG854]

• Times Obama was impeached vs. times Trump was impeached: 0 and 2
• Times Trump won the popular vote vs. times Obama won the popular vote: 0 and 2

You might want to avoid the term "0 and 2" when talking about Trump. It's pretty embarrassing for you and for him, particularly when Trump received bipartisan majorities to convict and was acquitted on the technicality that conviction requires a 2/3 majority in the senate. Republicans like Mitch McConnell also voted to acquit on the technicality that they incorrectly didn't think impeachment was constitutional constitutional after a president left office, not because they thought Trump wasn't guilty.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


BLM is a peaceful protest movement against systemic racism. The riots at the Capitol were, by design, an attempted insurrection against the United States stoked by false claims of voter fraud and instigated by Trump so he could use the riots as leverage to overturn the election. Don't be disingenuous.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


Nobody wanted to impeach Trump, particularly with the small chance of a conviction in the Senate, but Trump's actions were so deplorable that the precedent couldn't be set that those kinds of actions were acceptable and wouldn't result in consequences like impeachment. In other words, I'm sorry Trump sucks so bad.

Trump was acquitted because conviction requires a 2/3 majority in the Senate. In reality, Trump received bipartisan majorities to convict, and many of the Republicans voted to acquit because they didn't think a president could be impeached after leaving office, not because they thought he wasn't guilty.

Trump is an embarrassment who lost the popular vote twice, is a one-term president, and got impeached twice. The fact that seven Republican senators voted for his conviction is also embarrassing. In other words, Trump was acquitted twice, but how many times was Obama acquitted? The answer: not applicable.

Basis for Embarrassment shouldn't be who and who didn't get the popular vote.

Bernie Sanders didn't get the popular vote for both times Trump ran for president. Elizabeth Warren didn't get the popular vote. Bernie had to drop out. He couldn't even make it to the end, to the election semi finals, something Trump did.

Unless you thinks Bernies policies are horrible. Deserves to drop out, and is therefore an embarrassment.


I think impeachment is a better indicator for embarrassment.

 

[Lacius]

Frankly I'm having fun mocking your style of selective argument to keep things dumb. I don't remember the last time I complained about something. It's possible I did.

Seeing as you have a lot more free time than me and have dedicated years to hone your online persona "for everyone to witness", it really does seem like you contribute nothing to society. So "wah wah" I guess.

Did you really just resort to the desperate personal attack that I have no life and post too much? How embarrassing for you. You have a history of shitposting and trolling, so I'm also not sure how you can reasonably make any judgements about how other people are spending their time. We are all spending time on GBATemp, so I'm not sure how any of us can judge how we spend our time.

Not that it's any of your business, but I regularly help others and contribute to the various Nintendo subforums. I'm a Science teacher who teaches about 200 students, half in person and half virtually. I'm off work today for President's Day, I have weekends off, and I've had numerous snow days in the past week and a half with more likely to follow. I'd probably be off today even without the holiday.

What do you do with your life?

 

[tabzer]

I think impeachment is a better indicator for embarrassment

I think that is idealistic thinking, still. Every impeachment in my history had always been politically motivated and on a downward spiral.