(mini rant) "Hardcore" gamers are too concerned about physical copies

FAST6191 · May 31, 2020

64bitmodels said:
I have no business with resale tbh, the only time id use it is when that particular game isnt getting made copies anymore and the digital storefront is dead, but in that case i would probably be able to emulate it on pc since the console would be old AF by the time that happens.
Also what's with me having a 'lack of self awareness'? Wasn't everything i stated right?? if a game goes down there will most likely be a site that helps with archiving the digital formats of those games- i mean look at wiiware and its closure in early 2019- there are sites up today with the wad files of these games readily available for download.

Your personal use of resale options is besides the point really. The lack of option to resell, and thus effective lack of ownership, is however one enjoyed by everything else in life and physical games, the only reason you don't in downloadable games is because lawyers or arsehole business types.

So downloadable games are generally (online only DRM might not be cracked in time, there are a few unplayable games already out there) made available by third parties, just like ROMs of physical games have been for... longer than the internet really.
Both represent a failure of the market and the market, or a segment thereof, working around it but it is still a failure. Downloadable games is not a solution to it though, and with the lack of resale also means that when things don't go in some hypothetical future (I do like to remind people at this point plenty of big companies have shuttered DRM encumbered services and also plenty of others have gone bankrupt) but 3 years later when some music owner, owner of car/gun/texture, general IP holder or whatever says nah not renewing.
That would be the lack of awareness.

64bitmodels · May 31, 2020

FGFlann said:
There are several contradictions in your reasoning. Such as DVDs being breakable but not applying that same standard to SD cards, which are even more prone to data degradation. In the case of digital store fronts you also advocate downloading your entire library of games to preserve it, which is obviously limited by your ability to store data. Not always feasible depending on the size of your library, and subject to the same limitations of degradable physical media. Also your ability to use this data is often times limited by your ability to access that particular online service.

Perhaps the most egregious suggestion is that your solution to physical video game preservation is to break the law.

if a game can't fit on my current storage then tbh i probably don't need it, which isnt a problem in my eyes because adequate storage is easy to come across, and you probably already have it in your pc/console
ps4 and xbox one have 1tb models, and switch, while only at 32gigs, has readily available cards made specifically for the switch
Also maybe its because i havent been using them very much but SD cards have never broke on me once, unlike dvds which ive lost on multiple occasions.
this is why i have a bias against physical, its just too easy for me to lose
hell i lost a whole collection of wii u games when moving once, cant do that with digital

FAST6191 · May 31, 2020

If a console has no games how can you lose a game collection?

Nerdtendo · May 31, 2020

FGFlann said:
There are several contradictions in your reasoning. Such as DVDs being breakable but not applying that same standard to SD cards, which are even more prone to data degradation. In the case of digital store fronts you also advocate downloading your entire library of games to preserve it, which is obviously limited by your ability to store data. Not always feasible depending on the size of your library, and subject to the same limitations of degradable physical media. Also your ability to use this data is often times limited by your ability to access that particular online service.

Perhaps the most egregious suggestion is that your solution to physical video game preservation is to break the law.

Yes SD cards are breakable, but it is infinitely easier to make a backup of your SD card contents than a DVD. Also, hard drives are getting cheaper and cheaper. The same is true for personal cloud storage services. The solution to video game preservation has always been to break the law. When push comes to shove, the best way to protect the content of games is to put it online in multiple places. That how it always has been. I'm not here to discuss the legality of it, merely the preservation factor. Like I said, I think physical games are great. If you have a huge collection that's great. I just can't stand seeing people actually demean others because they prefer playing digitally.

FGFlann · May 31, 2020

Nerdtendo said:
Yes SD cards are breakable, but it is infinitely easier to make a backup of your SD card contents than a DVD. Also, hard drives are getting cheaper and cheaper. The same is true for personal cloud storage services. The solution to video game preservation has always been to break the law. When push comes to shove, the best way to protect the content of games is to put it online in multiple places. That how it always has been. I'm not here to discuss the legality of it, merely the preservation factor. Like I said, I think physical games are great. If you have a huge collection that's great. I just can't stand seeing people actually demean others because they prefer playing digitally.

"Infinitely?" A little hyperbolic, also completely ancillary to the point that anything can be damaged. As far as long term storage goes, optical discs are still the best choice when stored in optimal conditions. They will last longer than any hard drive on the market and can't be erased at the whim of companies like Google. Video game preservation is more about preserving items in their original form. Cartridges and consoles, not simply the game data itself.

This is why it's now a problem, because the 'game', as it were, has changed and those cartridges/discs are disappearing. Leaving us at the mercy of a product without a physical form that we can't truly preserve in its original state.

Nerdtendo · May 31, 2020

FGFlann said:
"Infinitely?" A little hyperbolic, also completely ancillary to the point that anything can be damaged. As far as long term storage goes, optical discs are still the best choice when stored in optimal conditions. They will last longer than any hard drive on the market and can't be erased at the whim of companies like Google. Video game preservation is more about preserving items in their original form. Cartridges and consoles, not simply the game data itself.

This is why it's now a problem, because the 'game', as it were, has changed and those cartridges/discs are disappearing. Leaving us at the mercy of a product without a physical form that we can't truly preserve in its original state.

A little hyperbole never hurt anyone. Although I stand by the statement that it is infinitely easier to stick an SD card into my computer and make backups than try to circumvent the copy protection on a DVD.

I disagree that video game preservation is about preservation in the original form. The form many games were originally presented in are now outdated and incredibly prone to failure. I think it's better that donkey Kong country is playable after the chunky gray plastic it was surrounded by is rotted away.

The same is true for something like music. We had records, cassettes, CDs, and now mostly MP3 files. The music is still preserved even though there are far fewer audio casettes these days.

Also, I haven't seen anybody address the convenience factor of digital games which I believe is a huge draw.

FGFlann · May 31, 2020

Nerdtendo said:
A little hyperbole never hurt anyone. Although I stand by the statement that it is infinitely easier to stick an SD card into my computer and make backups than try to circumvent the copy protection on a DVD.

I disagree that video game preservation is about preservation in the original form. The form many games were originally presented in are now outdated and incredibly prone to failure. I think it's better that donkey Kong country is playable after the chunky gray plastic it was surrounded by is rotted away.

The same is true for something like music. We had records, cassettes, CDs, and now mostly MP3 files. The music is still preserved even though there are far fewer audio casettes these days.

Also, I haven't seen anybody address the convenience factor of digital games which I believe is a huge draw.

It's not addressed because I doubt anyone would dispute it. It's obviously better to have them at hand than require extra steps to switch games. What matters to people is if that is worth the trade off of losing everything else.

I can't do much about your opinion of what preservation truly is, we will simply have to agree to disagree.

ReigningSemtex · May 31, 2020

I would always rather buy physical and there's nobody that could change my mind on that. When a license expires a digital game is lost to time.

SrceJunacko · Jun 1, 2020

Look, owning a disc copy is the real thing. You have it in your hands for the price you accept to pay. It remains forever. Share it, sell it, rent it, burn it do whatever you want to. Yet you have to change the disc every time you play another game on a disc version as a digital copy is ready to go once you have downloaded it. Furthermore, the disc version gives you the possibility to install the v1.00 of the game with the freeesh smell when opening it.

jeffyTheHomebrewer · Jun 5, 2020

64bitmodels said:
digital all day everyday
people are talking about how once the shop goes down the games go down and thats bullshit, digital has way better preservation qualities than any other form of media
if a game goes down on steam youll always find a pirated copy on igg games
plus steam has the biggest modding community, has the most games, is the highest populated digital storefront, etc
Im sorry but you guys are really getting your tits tangled up over ownership and whatnot
Nintendo eshop, once you download the games theyre saved onto your sd card (or nand if youre a masochist) and you barely have to worry about updates, which unfortunately, may take a lot of time as most of them are of the long, long time of 3 fucking seconds.
the only time where youd have to worry about download speeds is if youre downloading a newly bought game/transferring data, when in big chunks, yea it can take quite a while, but its way better than having a copy of the game that can break at any time assuming you dont take good care of it
i had a dvd copy of sonic generations back when i was 6, loved that game so much, played it a lot on my 360 and then wham the god damned thing just stopped working due to being scratched, and i got sonic unleashed of all games as a replacement. you ever consider that children could break a copy and lose 10- 60 god damned smackeroos??
also, there's this little feature, im not sure if youve heard about it but on the switch it allows you to launch the software without having to download the update, i think that's right on the update screen when they show it to you.
the only defense people have is ownership and frankly i dont care, as long as i can play games with or without mods its good to me. its not like once the store closes down all the digital games youve bought will just dissappear or something unless youre using steam, which is still bullshit since you shouldve downloaded them before the shop closed!! companies usually announce this sort of stuff so people can prepare in advance!!! also knowing valve theyd probably release a utility or tool to remove the steam DRM from all your games after/before the storefront dies
and before anyone comes up and says " well then you should be supporting streaming" theres a difference, when the game goes down it gets removed from your library, unlike digital games which just stay until you uninstall them, also streaming has more latency, and is online all the time whereas digital has less latency and can be played offline

I agree. Also, my dog (Bless 'im) chewed up my copy of sonic generations a few weeks ago, and I just replaced it a few days ago.

Deleted User · Oct 26, 2020

Sorry for butting in.
Yea Digital is cool and its awsome for games you
A. Cant find easily
B. Are expensive physically
And i respect that but man i cant really follow. Maybe cause i play casually, so rare copies dont matter but keeping track of them do and MAN do consoles bug out half the time and last for like 3 or 4 years? I guess thats what i mean sorry OP...

Julie_Pilgrim · Nov 10, 2020

FAST6191 said:
If a console has no games how can you lose a game collection?

That’s why I prefer Xbox

jimbo13 · Nov 10, 2020

I don't need a media disc perse but I will severe the chain a corporation is keeping on data I have acquired at every opportunity. But fun packages were a good part of gaming. I still remember the smell of a cartridge, a quality manual dust sleeve that doesn't have oily finger prints all over it. The unboxing was a experience.

FAST6191 · Nov 10, 2020

Scott_pilgrim said:
FAST6191 said:

If a console has no games how can you lose a game collection?

Click to expand...

That’s why I prefer Xbox

I will give the Xbone has no games, mainly as this last generation has produced nothing of terribly great note so far.
If you think the original xbox and 360 are lacking then you either have a very very very specific taste or have not been looking.

Julie_Pilgrim · Nov 11, 2020

FAST6191 said:
I will give the Xbone has no games, mainly as this last generation has produced nothing of terribly great note so far.
If you think the original xbox and 360 are lacking then you either have a very very very specific taste or have not been looking.

Well I meant Xbox one

Stwert · Nov 12, 2020

It’s a personal choice, buy from wherever you like and just enjoy gaming.

Personally, I like a physical copy wherever possible because I know in 40 years time, I can still use it - I don’t trust any digital services to still be around and still giving me access to my purchases.

But if there’s a digital only game I want, I’ll buy it. I’m reasonably sure that even in 40 years time, if a service has disappeared, the system will probably be hacked and my purchases can be obtained that way.

Deleted User · Nov 24, 2020

from the preservation standpoint: i play on pc so piracy has the side effect of pretty much presering anything
from the trading standpoint: steam luckily has the sharing feature, sure, not as good, but it's something, would be nice if you could trade games using the same system in place for items, not really going to happen, but it would be nice
from a collectors standpoint: yeah, pieces of code are not that fun to collect

zxr750j · Nov 24, 2020

When I buy games I like my pc games digital and my 3ds and Switch games physical. Having multiple console systems (3ds's and Switches) it makes switching the games much more convenient. But when I reinstall my gaming PC it's easier to re-download digital copies of the games (you've got to reinstall them anyway). I could talk about resell value but I never sell games I buy: I bought them for a reason...

shanks_ · Nov 24, 2020

Digital is more convenient, but in terms of longevity physical copies are a must. Due to the fickle nature of digital media, especially as we near the DMCA era, games that aren't available physically may not be around for future generations to enjoy as retro entertainment (see P.T.) This would prevent them from seeing generational success in terms of resonating with players across multiple generations.

Deleted User · Nov 25, 2020

shanks_ said:
Digital is more convenient, but in terms of longevity physical copies are a must. Due to the fickle nature of digital media, especially as we near the DMCA era, games that aren't available physically may not be around for future generations to enjoy as retro entertainment (see P.T.) This would prevent them from seeing generational success in terms of resonating with players across multiple generations.

so long as there is a pc version, it will be preserved due to piracy, PT (and scott pilgrim to add another example) were lost due to being only on console, the right path would be to ask for all games to have a propper pc version, even if you dont like pc gaming, at least there will be a preserved version that future generations will be able to play even years in the future (technically piracy does preserve console games too, but it has gotten too hard to remain viable)

(mini rant) "Hardcore" gamers are too concerned about physical copies

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