1. Nerdtendo

    OP Nerdtendo Your friendly neighborhood idiot
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    I know collections are nice, and it's always reassuring to know you have physical things that can't be lost with a hard drive crash, but it seems like most people are way too quick to dismiss digital games. When you buy digital, you don't have to worry about games getting lost or damaged. You also have the convenience of not having to take the time to put a disk into a console.
    I've heard the argument that "I don't want to pay $60 for access to some code that I can't actually own. Then I can't trade or resell games." This argument is pretty dumb. When you buy a game, you're never paying for the value of the actual physical good, you're paying for the code that makes up the game, i.e. the product. Discs are dirt cheap to manufacture. As for the whole "trading" thing, that's just an unfortunate side effect of the times.
    Tl;Dr:
    Digital games are way more convenient than physical even though physical looks nice
     
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  2. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter
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    Well...at least you acknowledge it's a rant. :P

    I honestly don't care how many are dismissing digital games. I'm fine with it, and I've got no reason to talk anyone out of their hobby.

    Truth of the matter: I can't even remember last time I opened my DVD tray to insert a disc in. Especially not when not counting windows discs. Nonetheless, I've not gamed less. Rather the contrary.
    Besides: the arguments against it are well documented and solved for those who want it:
    "no ownership" -> GoG
    "your hard disk may crash" -> backup
    "game servers may go offline" -> your disks will deteriorate faster than that
    "steam may go bankrupt" -> GoG
    "I like the physical presence" -> good for you

    That said: if there's a discussion, it has to be fair: some want to collect physical stuff and others want the option to trade. You can't throw both these groups in one large group and suggest they are hypocrites. There's different reasons, that's all.
     
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  3. Localhorst86

    Localhorst86 GBAtemp Addict
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    I understand the convenience of digital games and I know a handfull of people who went "all digital" with their PS4. It's convenient because you can purchase it instantly from your sofa, you don't have to get up to swap the discs, etc.

    I myself will prefer a physical copy over a digital one most of the time. Quite often, physical games are cheaper than their digital storefront counterparts - at least in my experience (on all current platforms: Xbox One, PS4 and - to a lesser extent - the Switch). Especially when you're willing to buy used games. Heck, you can borrow a game from a friend for free if you like.
    (Practical example: I purchased "Tearaway" or the PS4 for $5 brand new on disc, finished the game, cleaned up everything to get the platinum, then sold it for $7 to gamestop)

    Some games don't have any replay value to me, so I can purchase them in a sale or used, play the game and then re-sell it once i'm done. If I purchase a game and it turns out that I don't actually like it, I can sell it and try to minimize my losses (Instead I now "own" 'Heavy Rain' digitally which I'll probably not continue playing.)

    Additionally, I do not have the fastest Internet connection speed. So a disc dramatically cuts the ammount of data I need to download. It's faster for me to hop onto my bike, drive 10 minutes to the store and have ~50Gb of Data already "on disc" and only update incremental updates. Quite often, I can even play the game already without having to download anything (Games that don't work at all without an update are still the exception).

    Even on current generation consoles, games are pulled because of licensing all the time. Try finding "Forza Motorsport 5" digitally as an example:
    you can't. The only way to play that game is to get the disc. Now, in reality, this isn't really that big of an issue, because you can go out and buy the game on ebay for like $5. Unless, of course, you went for the Xbox One S All Digital.

    tl;dr: The conveniences of digital games does not outweigh the positives of physical copies for me to go all digital. I'm still gonna buy the occassional title digitally, but will most likely continue using used physical games most of the time.
     
    Last edited by Localhorst86, Feb 27, 2020
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  4. DANTENDO

    DANTENDO I Won year sub Edge mag 1996 hot topic digitiser
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    People should just bloody play games no matter what format the game is and anyone not wanting one or the other is just a fool - shit I'd play the game even if the box came out a horses arse though I'd keep the disc and bin the box lol
     
  5. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    Disneyland fan tells peers, why Disneyland is the perfect form of entertainment. ;)

    nVidia: "We had to take down all Activision games, and all Square games, apart from one, like you always do with streaming business models, game streaming is a boon.".

    Rockstar: "We had to take down GTA4 because of licensing issues, after music licences ran out."

    Blizzard: "Warcraft 3 remaster is so good, we took down the original from Battlenet and had everyone rebuy it!"

    Microsoft: "Gamepass is the future. Have you also looked at Sea of Thieves? Also the future."

    Steam: "Discoverability? Hold my beer."

    Retrogamer in 2040: If I want to play a game from my youth, I hope that there is still a youtube video of it around...

    Twitch Streamer: Gaming is great. Fortnight even has a checkbox to mute sound for all emotes, for us streamers, so we don't get hit by copyright strikes!

    Games media: I drink doritos, and eat mountaindew, then can stream game - if the publisher likes me!

    Me: I love easy! (Also buys digital only content.)

    Gamestop: We had this exclusive agreement with Microsoft to remain as the only ones who could relicense used games - it was great. Before gamers decided "f'ck that" - now we are bankrupt. Unfair.

    Teenager be like: I love Fortnight, it is the most bestest artistically integrity Ive seen in a pink, neon green blob of commercialism since me birth. Now if only I could pay for time slots to get licenses to play that game... Like in Disneyland!

    Publisher: We will fix it with a patch.
    --

    If you dont understand any of that, just remember, that you dont own digital downloads, you only license them (for a period of time). And you dont own streams, which is a little easier for people to get their heads around. ;)
     
    Last edited by notimp, Feb 27, 2020
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  6. FGFlann

    FGFlann GBAtemp Fan
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    You can pry my physical games out of my cold, dead hands.
     
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  7. KleinesSinchen

    KleinesSinchen The Backup Reminder
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    "gog.com" → Okay Only way I accept games without physical medium. Not locked to a strange client application. No DRM. Will still be usable in decades.
    "backup" → Has nothing to do if physical medium exists or not. Any time.
    "your disks will deteriorate faster than that" → 1. Doubt it very much. Depends on both the actual disc(s)¹ and server(s). 2. There is more than discs (Mask ROM)
    "Truth of the matter: I can't even remember last time I opened my DVD tray to insert a disc in. Especially not when not counting windows discs. Nonetheless, I've not gamed less. Rather the contrary." → good for you
    ===========

    Some people – like myself – enjoy collecting stuff. Seeing my children of my age at the beginning of the 1990s throwing away the cardboard packaging of Game Boy cartridges made me shake my little head. Some people cling to photos (digital or analogue). I hate photos. They don't give me anything. Lots of my memories are associated with things. VHS recorder and tapes, Super Nintendo carts, fairy tale MCs, books.
    My method of keeping memories alive simply does not work with downloads because there is nothing to touch.
    ========



    Slightly off-topic: Can somebody explain (very shortly) why download only versions of games are considered to be "digital". We are talking about computer programs… I mean… there is digital data on discs and ROM chips as well. "Physical" does not sound like the opposite of "Digital". Never understood this.



    ____________________
    ¹ I own two discs from the same pressing with disc rot. They only failed by now because of SafeDisc 2.x copy protection. Data is still usable. All other pressed disc (CDDA, DVD-Video, PlayStation1/2, GameCube, Wii, PC-CDROM/DVD-ROM) some are decades old, show no problems at all. I own over 1000 pressed discs and none of them – other than C&C Red Alert 2 have deteriorated so far. I guess this is a manufacturing defect/bad pressing.
     
    Last edited by KleinesSinchen, Feb 27, 2020
  8. Hanafuda

    Hanafuda GBAtemp Addict
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    OK, opposite-of-boomer.
     
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  9. Localhorst86

    Localhorst86 GBAtemp Addict
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    KO, remoob
     
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  10. FGFlann

    FGFlann GBAtemp Fan
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    It's Zoomer, you actual boomers.
     
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  11. CactusMan

    CactusMan Member
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    The physical games at present time are a buggy mess without day one patch anyway. There are a few exeptations.
    If you like collecting fine and if you refuse to play some great games becouse of stubornness. Just do it for all I care. If you want to spent tons of cash on scalpers also fine with me. I´m even fine with people wanting to own physical copys of Tiger Electronic devices. But comes across as mad behaviour to me.
     
  12. FGFlann

    FGFlann GBAtemp Fan
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    I would have thought a forum centered around homebrew would take more of a dim view of the current DRM fest of digital gaming.
    It's referred to as the digital market because the entire transaction from purchase to play is done entirely in a "digital" space. No store to walk into and no product to handle.
     
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  13. Hanafuda

    Hanafuda GBAtemp Addict
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    LOL. Yeah can't help it, just a creature of another era. The days of renting games at Blockbuster, the excitement of finding Pikmin2 in good condition in a used bin, the indestructibility of old Nintendo carts, trading, etc. OP makes some good points but I think digital has its share of negatives too. After-release fixes, DRM, DLC, no residual value.
     
  14. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    Yes.

    And thats because?

    You all decided, that downloading a patch on day one is fine, so publishers extended development cycles well after the point they did in the past. And nowadays also just release unfinished stuff - because, you always could patch later, if people bought it (and it didn't flop) - and found its a broken mess (No Mans Sky).

    Thats largely not the point though. The point is, that consumers loose pretty much every ownership right (culture for the most part), once physical copies vanish entirely.

    So day one patches are 'ok' - as long as there is still the 'concept of ownership' - and you only get that with the physical good in play.

    Because you cant have physical copies without property rights - that then also makes stuff like "art" possible (You give art away to be art. It has to become part of the public realm.).

    If you are in the business to produce entertainment instead - you never let your product go. :) Think of it like licensing a gamesbrand. But now apply the same logic to the game itself.

    So think of it as it becoming normal, that 'your favorite game' will be unavailable - unable to be recreated, unable to be reused in a derivative fashion, stored away in a corporate rights silo, that then becomes part of that businesses economic evaluation - and never being more than that. If you are lucky, you might get a toy figurine as a token of rememberence, or something. ;) (Thanks Nintendo. ;) ) Like in Disneyland.

    As 'enhanced by cloud' (wooow!) comes along, servers will always be down one day after the profitability curve demands it.
    --


    Now the issue is - Gamers.

    Because you can always convince the idiots, that believe in popularity as a measure of something being good, that it is in their interest, because it is so easy.

    But the key is, that you can convince that bunch of people always to be entertained by whats popular anyhow - so those are never the people that would care about libraries, culture or conservation.


    Now you can look at all digital first distrubution platforms (play store, apples iphone gaming model ..), recognize, that they are all pretty messy - and think that this is by chance. But you can also look at that and see it as what always has to happen, once you take ownership away from consumers. (Everyone looses interest as soon as hype is over, and everyone still tries to flog their games corpses five years after, in the most low effort way possible - because there still could be 20 USD in it.)

    That (Entertainment model) is kind of not conducive to culture.

    Culture is what you get, when people start recording shows off of TV (when the first VCR arrives).

    Now gaming culture isnt the best thing since sliced bread. But at least its around, and at least its ours.

    If its only 'theirs' - you will lose interest. And it will start to look bad - over time. Promised. :)

    CDs/DVDs or not is not the point. Thats mainly just 'people like what they grew up with'. If its cartridges, or discs never matters.

    The issue is, that every company thats in the digital space will never sign away the ability to still profit from long tail (old, old) stuff, if they dont have to. And as a result you will end up with corporate content silos where you will always ask if you can pay them to look at it.

    And they will always tell you - sure, if you sign this, this and this - and we can be bothered. (GTA4 - gone,...)


    Same with gog.com or steam. Those only make sense as a competition model to physical media (steam seasonal sales f.e.). Thats not how digital first ('there only is a digital good of the thing') ecosystems look like.


    So we dont have to have the conversation around 'whats best'? Because both (digital download and physical copy) is best. Obviously. But if you get into - no, whats really best - and digital download wins - its properties will change. Piece by piece to be worse, than it is now. :)

    For all I care you could buy all digital if you'd like to, but make a fuss at the release of every new console, that you will never buy it, if it doesnt also deliver you games as something you can also own. Would be totally fine with me. ;) (And with digital goods, sadly you have to read the fine print.)

    The problem is, that publisher will notice - and once physical media demand falls under a certain threshhold, its content subscriptions and 'the scifi space attraction ride has opened - hype' all the way. :) (They will control the environment, use - the entire market (no used games).They will take content away when its no longer profitable, they will lose interest if relicensing of music in a game isnt profitable, ... They will produce a poor kid Kenny (Southpark) consumption tier as an entry level, and thats it.

    Remake 20 years later, to profit from nostalgia (thats multiple resale value). But maybe dont put that much effort in it, its not as if people could just as well play a rom of it...
     
    Last edited by notimp, Feb 27, 2020
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  15. Nerdtendo

    OP Nerdtendo Your friendly neighborhood idiot
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    I should have made it clear that I think physical games are cool, and if you only buy physical, I'm not saying you're wrong. It's just the people who say that digital = bad all the time who this is towards. And I've still seen people in this thread say "You don't own the game if you buy digital. It's just a license" Like I said, this is not true. The actual files to the actual program are all present on your hard drive. It is no different than buying a disk with all of those files. Game streaming is buying a license, but that's not what this is about.
     
  16. ghjfdtg

    ghjfdtg GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    I disagree.

    Is "digital" convenient? Undoubtedly it is. But you are often paying more for this convenience than getting a physical copy. The physical copy has its license bound to it which allows you to resell it unlike digital and you are still paying more for not beeing able to resell. When the servers are down in the future or they decide to make room for new content you just can't get access to the game legally anymore if you deleted it previously. You can't get the updates for the physical copy either but it's still playable.

    The ultimate evolution of this DRM/consumer control system is streaming where they can decide who plays what and when. You lose all control of your purchase and it still costs as much as a physical copy.
     
  17. FGFlann

    FGFlann GBAtemp Fan
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    This is a point of contention because your ability to use those files can be removed entirely with the way the online services currently function. *NINTENDO* actually does this when they issue an eshop ban.
     
  18. UltraDolphinRevolution

    UltraDolphinRevolution GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    There are two types of physical: cartridges/SSD or a CD/DVD. The latter just annoying in terms of making sounds (i.e. the disc drive).
     
  19. duwen

    duwen Old Man Yoshi
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    There are pro's and cons to both. Personally, I prefer physical for a multitude of reasons, but I'm not averse to buying digitally if it's the only option (or cheap enough to not care).

    What I am against is the idea that games become a digital only medium... essentially lost (or at least 'profile locked' to a specific bit of hardware) when the servers are down/title's delisted/etc. Anyone that wants 'this' future is essentially shitting on game preservation and paving the way for gaming to become 'disposable'.
    We should all be rallying for the choice to have either digital or physical - regardless of our own preference.
     
  20. CactusMan

    CactusMan Member
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    I don´t think you realy need phyical copys for Preservation. WiiWare like Final Fantasy : My life as King and Xbox arcade titles are well preserved. It´s just about distrubution and playing games. Gotto love you got multiple options in acomplishing that.
     
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