I've grown up in a country close to germany, where the guy that is held responsible for all of the atrocities in the 1940s came from. We learn to identify the basis of that ideology in school, and never to stand for it if someone takes part of it, dissects it, and then starts to reimplement it as 'not everything about it was bad'.
This is the first time I've been accused of making a wrong accusation on identifying national socialist ideology - and the first time moderators of a forum actually protected people holding up a race deterministic ideology, genetically argued, as a valid stance.
So lets go through it - thoroughly.
1. That race would be genetically determined is not a dictionary definition for over 80 years now.
2. Someone can say that he 'also acknowledges a cultural aspect' of race, and still be a racist - one does not exclude the other.
3. Any argument that argues for 'race being a deterministic factor' because of 'cultural selection over generations' is fundamentally wrong, at most - we see factors like this coming in regionally, and even then they are not 'defining' traits - the idea that a socially dominant group would have an impact on 'race' that would be a defining characteristic over multiple generations is absolutely wrong.
4. Any argument that argues for cultural bias that leads to something 'social darwinism' would call natural selection is fundamentally wrong.
5. Anyone that argues, that family values, and racial traits would be the most notable key determinants for 'future development' of a person is fundamentally wrong.
6. There are no cultural differences, that are better explained racially.
7. How a person looks (haircolor, and skincolor), and how a person behaves are two completely unrelated things. (phenotype is not genotype)
8. If someone is trying to convince you with 'higher testosterone levels on one race, over the other' and then fails to mention, that that level is 2-4% higher, when corrected for age groups, their agenda is not to educate you.
9. Race more often than not is a hinderance, in sociology, medicine or applied governing (because of implied biases).
10. The only field where race is still actively played to - publicly is politics, where it is used as part of public story telling.
11. Race in todays world is almost exclusively determined by self definition.
12. There is no deterministic genetic definition of race.
13. As soon as you try to bridge racial traits with behavioral tendencies, and do so for an entire group, you have crossed the red line into a societal taboo on race ideology.
14. As soon as you try to bridge racial traits with generational behavioral tendencies, you've crossed the line into a societal taboo on race ideology.
15. As soon as you state, that you are 'happy, that we can finally discuss' race ideologies, without taboos, you've crossed the line into a societal taboo on race ideology.
16. If you are mostly arguing that peoples behavior would be racially motivated, you've crossed the line into a societal taboo on race ideology.
[All those taboos are longstanding and not up for debate, they are not a generational ideology, they are there for a reason.]
17. The reason we have taboos on racial ideology is - because people tend to attribute, good things to an ingroup, bad things to an outgroup or a bad outside actor, and then act on it. If you cant 'switch' places - event theoretically, this leads to unbridgeable differences, based on ideology.
...
And if you are an American, that has never in their life reflected on race ideology societally - I suggest you take it very slow, before you decide what could be called national socialistic ideology, and what not. I've studied historical racial ideology for two years in the country where most of Nazi ideology was formed in the 1930s and 40s. Chances are that you have not.
And while our definitions of when it is socially acceptable to call out national socialist ideology might differ, culturally I'm educated since high school to always call it out, when I see it, and to never hold back saying something - when someone tries to reimplement parts of that ideology as socially acceptable.
We could discuss any of the points above, and I'll do my best to provide scientific backing for each of the proclamations, but this is the societal default where I'm coming from, so please excuse me if I don't divert an inch from it. In our countries we are shown the atrocities those racial attributions lead to. At a very young age.
This is the first time I've been accused of making a wrong accusation on identifying national socialist ideology - and the first time moderators of a forum actually protected people holding up a race deterministic ideology, genetically argued, as a valid stance.
So lets go through it - thoroughly.
1. That race would be genetically determined is not a dictionary definition for over 80 years now.
2. Someone can say that he 'also acknowledges a cultural aspect' of race, and still be a racist - one does not exclude the other.
3. Any argument that argues for 'race being a deterministic factor' because of 'cultural selection over generations' is fundamentally wrong, at most - we see factors like this coming in regionally, and even then they are not 'defining' traits - the idea that a socially dominant group would have an impact on 'race' that would be a defining characteristic over multiple generations is absolutely wrong.
4. Any argument that argues for cultural bias that leads to something 'social darwinism' would call natural selection is fundamentally wrong.
5. Anyone that argues, that family values, and racial traits would be the most notable key determinants for 'future development' of a person is fundamentally wrong.
6. There are no cultural differences, that are better explained racially.
7. How a person looks (haircolor, and skincolor), and how a person behaves are two completely unrelated things. (phenotype is not genotype)
8. If someone is trying to convince you with 'higher testosterone levels on one race, over the other' and then fails to mention, that that level is 2-4% higher, when corrected for age groups, their agenda is not to educate you.
9. Race more often than not is a hinderance, in sociology, medicine or applied governing (because of implied biases).
10. The only field where race is still actively played to - publicly is politics, where it is used as part of public story telling.
11. Race in todays world is almost exclusively determined by self definition.
12. There is no deterministic genetic definition of race.
13. As soon as you try to bridge racial traits with behavioral tendencies, and do so for an entire group, you have crossed the red line into a societal taboo on race ideology.
14. As soon as you try to bridge racial traits with generational behavioral tendencies, you've crossed the line into a societal taboo on race ideology.
15. As soon as you state, that you are 'happy, that we can finally discuss' race ideologies, without taboos, you've crossed the line into a societal taboo on race ideology.
16. If you are mostly arguing that peoples behavior would be racially motivated, you've crossed the line into a societal taboo on race ideology.
[All those taboos are longstanding and not up for debate, they are not a generational ideology, they are there for a reason.]
17. The reason we have taboos on racial ideology is - because people tend to attribute, good things to an ingroup, bad things to an outgroup or a bad outside actor, and then act on it. If you cant 'switch' places - event theoretically, this leads to unbridgeable differences, based on ideology.
...
And if you are an American, that has never in their life reflected on race ideology societally - I suggest you take it very slow, before you decide what could be called national socialistic ideology, and what not. I've studied historical racial ideology for two years in the country where most of Nazi ideology was formed in the 1930s and 40s. Chances are that you have not.
And while our definitions of when it is socially acceptable to call out national socialist ideology might differ, culturally I'm educated since high school to always call it out, when I see it, and to never hold back saying something - when someone tries to reimplement parts of that ideology as socially acceptable.
We could discuss any of the points above, and I'll do my best to provide scientific backing for each of the proclamations, but this is the societal default where I'm coming from, so please excuse me if I don't divert an inch from it. In our countries we are shown the atrocities those racial attributions lead to. At a very young age.
Last edited by notimp,