A law firm has begun an investigation for a class action lawsuit on Nintendo over Joy-Con drift

Jayro · Jul 19, 2019

They might wanna hold off on releasing those newly colored joycons until they're finished being sued off the planet... Otherwise they'll just have to issue the recall and exchange them for a new hardware revision without the drifting issue built in.

guily6669 · Jul 19, 2019

pedro702 said:
well ori ones arent out yet and i dont think they will have a batery tbh so lets wait for those, i think they advertised it alongside daemon x machina as the perfect joycons for shooting games and whatnot.

The problem is I think that upcoming controllers will cost like the price of 5x Ipega 9083 controllers

.

Jayro · Jul 19, 2019

The Real Jdbye said:
That's true. At the same time though, a lot more R&D goes into a product from a well renowned company like this, so I don't trust a 3rd party noname Chinese manufacturer to do a better job, intentionally or not. I think the main issue is that the JoyCon sticks are extremely low profile, and that limits their options. The iPega is much bulkier so they can fit standard sticks in there, which has its pros and cons.
That said, if the choice was between this and "circle pad" style analogs, I would pick an actual stick any time, even if it needs to be replaced every so often. Never liked the circle pad on the 3DS, and it was awful for Smash. Those things also started breaking down within weeks of Smash 4 releasing, even though there weren't any durability issues with them before.

The circlepad was being abused by people smashing it like a gorilla, and boiled down to abuse.

The Real Jdbye · Jul 19, 2019

Jayro said:
The circlepad was being abused by people smashing it like a gorilla, and boiled down to abuse.

Then why did it happen to so many people all around the time Smash 4 released? It looked like people had physically ripped the rubber part off, which doesn't make sense for anyone to do accidentally. Seems to me like the glue they used is just not very strong.

Foxi4 · Jul 19, 2019

The Real Jdbye said:
That's true. At the same time though, a lot more R&D goes into a product from a well renowned company like this, so I don't trust a 3rd party noname Chinese manufacturer to do a better job, intentionally or not. I think the main issue is that the JoyCon sticks are extremely low profile, and that limits their options. The iPega is much bulkier so they can fit standard sticks in there, which has its pros and cons.
That said, if the choice was between this and "circle pad" style analogs, I would pick an actual stick any time, even if it needs to be replaced every so often. Never liked the circle pad on the 3DS, and it was awful for Smash. Those things also started breaking down within weeks of Smash 4 releasing, even though there weren't any durability issues with them before.

The Circle Pad and the Joycon stick actually share a lot of similarities - you'll notice familiar X/Y wipers on a carbon trace, just like on a Joycon. The wiper assembly seems more robust, but the principle is the same - match and matchbox instead of rotary potentiometers you usually see. This is much more akin to a volume slider than it is to a traditional stick, I'm not surprised both are quick to fail.

The Real Jdbye · Jul 19, 2019

Foxi4 said:
The Circle Pad and the Joycon stick actually share a lot of similarities - you'll notice familiar X/Y wipers on a carbon trace, just like on a Joycon. The wiper assembly seems more robust, but the principle is the same - match and matchbox instead of rotary potentiometers you usually see. This is much more akin to a volume slider than it is to a traditional stick, I'm not surprised both are quick to fail.
View attachment 173569

The issue with the circle pad was a completely different one though. The circle pads just had their top piece (with the stem) break off or the rubber piece rip off.
The 3DS circle pad was also low profile like the Switch, so it's bound to have limitations. Just not sure how they could outright solve the problem without making the JoyCons thicker. They might be able to make improvements, but ultimately they will likely never be as durable as full size sticks.

pedro702 · Jul 19, 2019

guily6669 said:
The problem is I think that upcoming controllers will cost like the price of 5x Ipega 9083 controllers .

preety sure hori said it was like 45 or 50$ lol

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Foxi4 said:
The Circle Pad and the Joycon stick actually share a lot of similarities - you'll notice familiar X/Y wipers on a carbon trace, just like on a Joycon. The wiper assembly seems more robust, but the principle is the same - match and matchbox instead of rotary potentiometers you usually see. This is much more akin to a volume slider than it is to a traditional stick, I'm not surprised both are quick to fail.
View attachment 173569

my original 3ds and new 3ds have thousands of hours and my circle pads are all fine lol, i have 999 hours on each pokemon game so you can see how much i used those cricle pads because i dont use dpads

Foxi4 · Jul 19, 2019

The Real Jdbye said:
The issue with the circle pad was a completely different one though. The circle pads just had their top piece (with the stem) break off or the rubber piece rip off.
The 3DS circle pad was also low profile like the Switch, so it's bound to have limitations. Just not sure how they could outright solve the problem without making the JoyCons thicker. They might be able to make improvements, but ultimately they will likely never be as durable as full size sticks.

Circle Pad drift is not uncommon, you see cases pop up every now and then, although admittedly the cap is simply less durable than the wipers themselves, so you see it fail long before the internal components do. Nintendo did fix it eventually by hardening the stick material, and the force distribution is a little different in a slider, so they stack up as more reliable, for sure.

The Real Jdbye · Jul 19, 2019

Foxi4 said:
Circle Pad drift is not uncommon, you see cases pop up every now and then, although admittedly the cap is simply less durable than the wipers themselves, so you see it fail long before the internal components do. Nintendo did fix it eventually by hardening the stick material, and the force distribution is a little different in a slider, so they stack up as more reliable, for sure.

It certainly doesn't seem as common as it seems on the Switch, I hear reports of it all the time on Switch and don't remember hearing about a single one on the 3DS. Even though I watch repair videos on YouTube where people buy random lots of faulty consoles and repair them, I've never come across one that showed a circle pad with drifting, and I've come across at least 10 Switch ones.

What I have come across though are ones where the circle pad is just permanently registering in one direction. They're not very common, but they happen.

SuzieJoeBob · Jul 19, 2019

The Real Jdbye said:
The issue with the circle pad was a completely different one though. The circle pads just had their top piece (with the stem) break off or the rubber piece rip off.
The 3DS circle pad was also low profile like the Switch, so it's bound to have limitations. Just not sure how they could outright solve the problem without making the JoyCons thicker. They might be able to make improvements, but ultimately they will likely never be as durable as full size sticks.

The Joycons use wipers the just like the 3DS circlepad, which isn't a problem on its own. Now add in the button that requires pressing the analog stick inward, unlike the 3DS, and now the wipers have tension placed on them laterally and longitudinally, which bends the prongs.

With the stretched out prongs reaching farther across the PCB traces, the prongs are now outside of the 'deadzone' set by Nintendo and is interpreted as user input instead of a new 'at rest' position.

BlastedGuy9905 · Jul 19, 2019

You know what? Go ahead. I actually wouldn't mind Ninty losing a lawsuit regarding this matter, maybe they'll do something about the motherfucking quality of the overpriced Joy-Cons.

The Real Jdbye · Jul 19, 2019

SuzieJoeBob said:
The Joycons use wipers the just like the 3DS circlepad, which isn't a problem on its own. Now add in the button that requires pressing the analog stick inward, unlike the 3DS, and now the wipers have tension placed on them laterally and longitudinally, which bends the prongs.

With the stretched out prongs reaching farther across the PCB traces, the prongs are now outside of the 'deadzone' set by Nintendo and is interpreted as user input instead of a new 'at rest' position.

That is true. And I think some people may just put too much force on the stick while they're playing, which wasn't so much of a problem because it was held in place so that it couldn't move much on the vertical axis.

But the material the pads on the JoyCon sticks are made out of seems to be the main problem. I don't know if the 3DS circle pads used the same material, but it looks like some sort of graphite material and wears out really easily.

On the 3DS the circle pads weren't known to wear out until Smash 4 was released. But on the Switch, they seem to be guaranteed to wear out over time no matter how careful you are. That graphite looking material will wear out, it's just a matter of how rough you are whether it will wear out in a year, or several years. My cousin doesn't seem to be especially rough with the JoyCons when he plays, but he's had his left JoyCon replaced once, and now it's experiencing the same problem again, all in less than 2 years after first getting the Switch.
Mine are still perfectly fine, but I don't play on it that often, and I'm careful with it. I have no doubt it's going to happen to me eventually, though.

Foxi4 · Jul 19, 2019

The Real Jdbye said:
It certainly doesn't seem as common as it seems on the Switch, I hear reports of it all the time on Switch and don't remember hearing about a single one on the 3DS. Even though I watch repair videos on YouTube where people buy random lots of faulty consoles and repair them, I've never come across one that showed a circle pad with drifting, and I've come across at least 10 Switch ones.

What I have come across though are ones where the circle pad is just permanently registering in one direction. They're not very common, but they happen.

The root cause of both faults is the same - the stick is "sticking" to a value. That is, unless a part of the assembly straight up broke off and no longer moves.

They're definitely less common though, I'll give you that. Sliding the slider back and forth must put less stress on the carbon traces and the wipers than using the stick, which makes sense. Alternatively, they changed the carbon trace material to something softer and the wipers just tear right through it.

kumikochan · Jul 19, 2019

chartube12 said:
Microsoft controllers have the same problem. If you’re lucky enough to not have one drift, one of or both bumpers fall off. Yet no one has sued them.

Sony fixes this issue starting with the ps3. DS dead zone auto adjust every time the console is restarted

Microsoft does not, haven't seen a single issue online whatsoever regarding that and if it's widespread then please do appoint me to links regarding that showing it is widespread like it is on the switch

Joom · Jul 19, 2019

kumikochan said:
Microsoft does not, haven't seen a single issue online whatsoever regarding that and if it's widespread then please do appoint me to links regarding that showing it is widespread like it is on the switch

It's just fanboyism that won't admit to this tablet being a flop, so they make shit up out of denial.

Foxi4 · Jul 19, 2019

kumikochan said:
Microsoft does not, haven't seen a single issue online whatsoever regarding that and if it's widespread then please do appoint me to links regarding that showing it is widespread like it is on the switch

I can assure you that it's also a problem on Microsoft controllers judging by the stack of faulty ones I fixed recently, including a brand-new white Xbox One Elite Model 2. It's an issue endemic to all conventional potentiometers, although admittedly, Joycons are particularly susceptible to it.

kumikochan · Jul 19, 2019

Foxi4 said:
I can assure you that it's also a problem on Microsoft controllers judging by the stack of faulty controllers I fixed recently, including a brand-new Xbox One Elite Model 2 white controller. It's an issue endemic to all conventional potentiometers, although admittedly, Joycons are particularly susceptible to it.

I have like 5 and i work at a recyclage park and 3 are from electronics recyclage bin I took and all 5 work fine and still work perfectly fine. It isn't an issue like it is on the switch. Most controllers you fixed are probably from angry ass children who threw them controllers against a wall out of rage quiiting and so forth

Clydefrosch · Jul 19, 2019

MasterZoilus said:
it is sure...100%. And this lawsuit actually doesn't have anything to do with the drift! its completely misleading buuuuut now that we are on the subject.....

I guarantee any amounts of money that they have NOT changed on the lite version....the dimensions of the thumbsticks look exactly the same, even the height, the top rubber pattern is the same and they're not going to spend $$$ on R&D and production on new thumbstick mechanisms that will cut into the large profits of the lite units. since its the same tech and just a less featured stripped down version of the OG switch. ... so yeah no changes, same thumbsticks/mechanisms, you'll see.

no idea what you mean with r&d, it's not like these sticks are developed or even manufactured by nintendo.

Foxi4 · Jul 19, 2019

kumikochan said:
I have like 5 and i work at a recyclage park and 3 are from electronics recyclage bin I took and all 5 work fine and still work perfectly fine. It isn't an issue like it is on the switch. Most controllers you fixed are probably from angry ass children who threw them controllers against a wall out of rage quiiting and so forth

Some, yes. Others were simply faulty straight out of the factory - no external marks of damage, or even extended use. I'm not ragging on Microsoft here either, it's a general problem with this kind of assembly, I doubt they even make the sticks themselves, they just source them. I think I said it earlier in the thread, but sticks in the Xbox One and PS4 controllers are "jellybean" parts, you buy them by the boatload and they're all exactly the same, there's only a few model out there. By a "stack of controllers" I mean a full-on box, not 3 or 4 I randomly found in a bin - I went through around 20 just in recent memory, some fixable, some not. Most were DualShock 4's simply because they're easier to repair, but a couple were Xbox One ones, including the Elite I mentioned. It's good value when the fix is a simple £1 stick and all it takes is a little labour.

Clydefrosch · Jul 19, 2019

SuzieJoeBob said:
The Joycons use wipers the just like the 3DS circlepad, which isn't a problem on its own. Now add in the button that requires pressing the analog stick inward, unlike the 3DS, and now the wipers have tension placed on them laterally and longitudinally, which bends the prongs.

With the stretched out prongs reaching farther across the PCB traces, the prongs are now outside of the 'deadzone' set by Nintendo and is interpreted as user input instead of a new 'at rest' position.

i'm still sure that many joycons were worked over pretty hard when you carry it in a backpack in one of them soft shell cases.

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