Hacking Is it possible for Nintendo to someday stop future pirated games from working on hacked switches?

Meepers55 · Feb 18, 2019

ZachyCatGames said:
That's because of a flaw in nvidia's security, not Ninty's

That flaw applies to their console regardless of who's fault it is. At the end of the day, it's Nintendo's console, not Nvidia's. If their security was as near flawless as you claimed it to be, then the hardware exploit wouldn't be much of an issue for Nintendo.

LinkmstrYT said:
For the older Switch units, anyway. If NVIDIA had patched up their vulnerability and also Nintendo not screwing up with a couple of designs of the Switch (like the pins on the right Joy-Con rails that helped in giving easier access to RCM), then it'd be extremely tough for many Switch hacking devs to break through and provide easy support for end-users. Otherwise, they did hugely step up the security on the Switch compared to other Nintendo consoles. And usually the unfortunate part for Nintendo consoles is that there's a lot more interest in people wanting to hack the consoles compared to Sony or Microsoft.

iirc, newer units have been patched for a couple of things like being able to send payloads through the USB-C port which is what a lot of people do after entering into RCM. And there's no public way (from what I can remember) to send a payload to the Switch when it's in RCM for those newer units. So those with a patched Switch wanting to hack are kinda SOL for the meantime.

In short, the Switch on the software side has impressive security, but on the hardware side is where they screwed up on.

We all know how the hardware exploit works by now. No need to go on a lengthy explanation.

To say that there isn't enough interest in hacking Sony and Microsoft consoles is absurd. The hacking scenes on their previous consoles, specifically those on the Sony side of things, show that there's more than enough interest in these areas. Heck, there's still interest in their current-gen consoles.

The PS4 has had a jailbreak available for quite some time, and newer firmwares are even exploitable as well. It's just that those who have the exploits either don't want to kill the console or reveal how to patch it. It's had a rocky start with homebrew, but more interesting things keep popping up for it.

As for the Xbox One, it's been known to be the toughest nut to crack. People who are interested in developing homebrew for it don't really even need to hack it since MS gave them alternatives, so trying to hack it would be a waste of time. That's why retroarch is able to be worked on for it.

There's a number of people still interested in working with non-Nintendo consoles. Saying otherwise is just ignorant.

ZachyCatGames · Feb 18, 2019

Meepers55 said:
That flaw applies to their console regardless of who's fault it is. At the end of the day, it's Nintendo's console, not Nvidia's. If their security was as near flawless as you claimed it to be, then the hardware exploit wouldn't be much of an issue for Nintendo.

And I was specifically talking about Nintendo's software side of security, which factually is almost flawless.

Fusee lets you have full control over the system before anything happens, how secure the system software is doesn't effect it at all (the most they can do is mess around with stuff to temporarily break CFW compatibility. ex 7.0.0 crypto changes)

cucholix · Feb 18, 2019

We always can hope devs don’t make piracy easily accessible, for one I expect Scires doesn’t reveal details about 7.0.0 on his new cfw, there are many devs that don’t endorse piracy.

ZachyCatGames · Feb 18, 2019

cucholix said:
We always can hope devs don’t make piracy easily accessible, for one I expect Scires doesn’t reveal details about 7.0.0 on his new cfw, there are many devs that don’t endorse piracy.

I'd like it if piracy wasn't easily accessible, but it probably won't happen. Also people besides Scires have dumped and decrypted 7.0.0 NCAs, pkg2, etc

the_randomizer · Feb 18, 2019

I'd like for companies not to use shitty DRM to curtail piracy ineffectively. Oh wait, that already happened.

Penny Morecash · Feb 19, 2019

I would imagine that we will stop having to wait for new hacks as they will be kept private and instead we'll get decrypted versions of the firmware that use a standard bootloader, pretty much like Gateway files on 3DS. The new keys will be added, firmware will be patched and we will all have our machines until they either die or made redundant because Big N don't make consoles anymore.
Of course I am probably wrong...

NyaakoXD · Feb 19, 2019

Meepers55 said:
We all know how the hardware exploit works by now. No need to go on a lengthy explanation.

To say that there isn't enough interest in hacking Sony and Microsoft consoles is absurd. The hacking scenes on their previous consoles, specifically those on the Sony side of things, show that there's more than enough interest in these areas. Heck, there's still interest in their current-gen consoles.

The PS4 has had a jailbreak available for quite some time, and newer firmwares are even exploitable as well. It's just that those who have the exploits either don't want to kill the console or reveal how to patch it. It's had a rocky start with homebrew, but more interesting things keep popping up for it.

As for the Xbox One, it's been known to be the toughest nut to crack. People who are interested in developing homebrew for it don't really even need to hack it since MS gave them alternatives, so trying to hack it would be a waste of time. That's why retroarch is able to be worked on for it.

There's a number of people still interested in working with non-Nintendo consoles. Saying otherwise is just ignorant.

Well, I never said that there isn't enough interest in hacking Sony and Microsoft consoles. It's just that, and I quote, "there's a lot more interest in people wanting to hack the [Nintendo] consoles". I know there are plenty of hackers that want to mess with other consoles along with there being jailbreak methods for PS4 and the Xbox One having an option to enable dev mode (props for them to allow devs to create homebrew on their console). Yet, I feel that despite all of those, they have smaller hacking scenes in general. And not much talk as compared to Nintendo consoles.

The PS2, PSP, PS3, Xbox, and Xbox 360 had their fair share of big homebrew developments/scenes, but when I think back on them and compare them to the DS, Wii, Wii U, 3DS, etc., I feel there's a lot more people working with the Nintendo consoles. Hell, the 3DS once was stuck on a golden firmware until vulnerabilities were found, exploits released, and had multiple CFWs were being developed at the same time along with multiple exploits being found out. Sure, the PSP had multiple CFWs, as well, but not as many as the 3DS was having and the PSP was extremely popular to hack back in its days and being slightly easier to hack compared to the 3DS. The Wii also had a multitude of homebrew development on its scene, as well. And the Wii U's is still quite alive in its own way despite it selling way worse and has a smaller playerbase compared to Sony's and Microsoft's other consoles. And it's some of the reasons why I've said that there are a lot more people interested in hacking Nintendo consoles compared to other consoles. Not saying that there aren't enough interest for other consoles, but just saying there's more interest for hacking and messing with Nintendo consoles.

It can be due to how much easier Nintendo consoles are to hack and so it's a given there would be more hackers interested in jumping in and break it apart. But I feel with how fast plenty have jumped on the Switch since its release is incredible and how much progress has been made since then. It could also just be how lucky (or unlucky depending on how you look at it) that there are very talented hackers that want to jump in on the Switch and hack it while also sharing their work to the world.

But that's just what I think.

Meepers55 · Feb 19, 2019

LinkmstrYT said:
Well, I never said that there isn't enough interest in hacking Sony and Microsoft consoles. It's just that, and I quote, "there's a lot more interest in people wanting to hack the [Nintendo] consoles". I know there are plenty of hackers that want to mess with other consoles along with there being jailbreak methods for PS4 and the Xbox One having an option to enable dev mode (props for them to allow devs to create homebrew on their console). Yet, I feel that despite all of those, they have smaller hacking scenes in general. And not much talk as compared to Nintendo consoles.

The PS2, PSP, PS3, Xbox, and Xbox 360 had their fair share of big homebrew developments/scenes, but when I think back on them and compare them to the DS, Wii, Wii U, 3DS, etc., I feel there's a lot more people working with the Nintendo consoles. Hell, the 3DS once was stuck on a golden firmware until vulnerabilities were found, exploits released, and had multiple CFWs were being developed at the same time along with multiple exploits being found out. Sure, the PSP had multiple CFWs, as well, but not as many as the 3DS was having and the PSP was extremely popular to hack back in its days and being slightly easier to hack compared to the 3DS. The Wii also had a multitude of homebrew development on its scene, as well. And the Wii U's is still quite alive in its own way despite it selling way worse and has a smaller playerbase compared to Sony's and Microsoft's other consoles. And it's some of the reasons why I've said that there are a lot more people interested in hacking Nintendo consoles compared to other consoles. Not saying that there aren't enough interest for other consoles, but just saying there's more interest for hacking and messing with Nintendo consoles.

It can be due to how much easier Nintendo consoles are to hack and so it's a given there would be more hackers interested in jumping in and break it apart. But I feel with how fast plenty have jumped on the Switch since its release is incredible and how much progress has been made since then. It could also just be how lucky (or unlucky depending on how you look at it) that there are very talented hackers that want to jump in on the Switch and hack it while also sharing their work to the world.

But that's just what I think.

It's hard to say really. In terms of homebrew/hacking content, Sony and Nintendo consoles have been pretty even (with the exception of the PS4). The PS3 and Vita scenes are still active, with the PS4 seeing a decent release every now and then. I can't really say much for Microsoft as I haven't had much experience with hacking their consoles.

EmulateLife · Feb 19, 2019

Dan-the-Rebirth said:
Always online could be a option to stop piracy on switch. Mario Maker 2 will be a very limited game on a hacked console

I don't see even that happening on the Switch because it's also a handheld console technically. I just don't see Nintendo forcing people to be online when people want to take their Switch on the go. You still have to connect to Wifi when you're not at home and Wifi doesn't exist everywhere in the world.

I could just picture a kid riding in the back of his parents car on a road trip and be unable to play his Switch game because they can't get online. Nintendo won't do that just to prevent piracy.

Mario Maker is the exception.

Vhestal · Feb 19, 2019

Nope. It's like the unmovable mountain vs the unstoppable force paradox, once an end gave in the whole logic crumbles. The good and the bad evolves at the same pace, when something poses a challenge, you can count on some guy with an ample interest to overcome it. The rule of the universe mate.

driverdis · Feb 19, 2019

Keys are protected by law, look up illegal numbers on Wikipedia and it will explain it.

pcwizard7 · Feb 20, 2019

in terms of original revision switch no they can't patch them not without changing the hardware, all they can do is put temporary road blocks like changing the hardware addresses which can be still hackable but takes time to update the hack.

now they have release a newer revision switch that has been patch so the original exploit has been patched now they will only be hackable if a new exploit has been found and used to patch the newer revision but then they can just release a newer switch again. ppl who hacked the original xbox would be used to this

now in terms of games atm they have made it so the same copy can't be used on multi switches online because each game will have a cert/ticket saying who owns it or cert for a certain cart it belongs too. the only thing more they could do is setup DRM for games to be always online but 1. people didn't let microsoft do this 2. nintenido online service is way below to have anything like this

so no not really its safe

Deleted User · Feb 21, 2019

azoreseuropa said:
Why are you so worry ? LOL. Never. Pirate is here to stay.. They will always find a way to hack. No matter what.

I agree. People thought for many years the PS3 wan unhackable and guess what? It was hacked later. Nintendo will obviously keep applying patches to firmware updates (do you remember what happened to the 3ds in July 2018? Freeshop was patched but Nintendo forgot to patch fbi) what you can do is block firmware updates to avoid patches.

ZachyCatGames · Feb 21, 2019

Missingphy said:
but Nintendo forgot to patch fbi

That literally makes no sense

Lacius · Feb 21, 2019

As I said in another thread, Nintendo/NVIDIA have actually managed to bootstrap an almost secure boot. With a future system update that patches certain exploits and hinders developers' abilities to derive TSEC keys, we might lose CFW for a very long stretch of time, if not forever.

paulzheng · Feb 21, 2019

Toon Link said:
Do you think that Nintendo will make it so a game like Metroid Prime 4 will only run on a 2nd generation unhackable switch or a unhackable firmware?
Any reason to be worried as a extreme pirate??

LoL. what about the rest 10M unpatched switchs?

the_randomizer · Feb 21, 2019

Maybe once piracy has any kind of major negative effect on sales and causes a complete failure of a console and/or game company, then maybe. Not happening.

Ian095 · Feb 21, 2019

Even if we can't get in on current versions and get NSPs I'm sure people could still dump XCI's. The only way I see Nintendo getting out of this one is making a switch pro and the games only run on that. Clearly won't happen for another 2 years at the least though so we're all good.

darkmolddd · Apr 5, 2019

Only way is if they decide to brink all hacked consoles with one automatic update, but i think will be ilegal for them.

masagrator · Apr 5, 2019

darkmolddd said:
Only way is if they decide to brink all hacked consoles with one automatic update, but i think will be ilegal for them.

Doing something like this always results in bricking units that shouldn't be a prey of this hunt.
Like clones of pirate cartridge for 3DS, which was bricking even 3DSs using original cartridge.

Hacking Is it possible for Nintendo to someday stop future pirated games from working on hacked switches?

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