Is it possible for Nintendo to someday stop future pirated games from working on hacked switches?

Discussion in 'Switch - Exploits, Custom Firmwares & Soft Mods' started by Toon Link, Feb 17, 2019.

  1. Dan-the-Rebirth

    Dan-the-Rebirth GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    I am aware of the PR disaster of the Xbox days.. But the question was What could Nintendo do, not what is practical or what ever for them to do. And in Japan we already have the cloud based games, they are un piratable as far as I know
     
  2. smf

    smf GBAtemp Psycho!

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    If someone won't release the 7.0.0 keys because they are scared of potential legal issues, they aren't going to reencrypt a game and release that instead as that definitely has legal issues
     
    Last edited by smf, Feb 18, 2019
  3. ZachyCatGames

    ZachyCatGames GBAtemp Addict

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    I know plenty of prople who have the master key, so idk. I’d do it (for private use only of course, I don't want to be the one responsible for leaking the keys or whatever)
     
    Last edited by ZachyCatGames, Feb 18, 2019
  4. Meepers55

    Meepers55 Flintstones Regular

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    Perhaps their next console will be as secure as the Xbox One.
     
  5. Mikemk

    Mikemk GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    As if there's not a legitimate reason for limiting games that require more powerful hardware to the more powerful hardware.
     
  6. tpax

    tpax GBAtemp Fan

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    As long as there is money to make out of piracy,
    Xbox One isn't that secure. It's just irrelevant, so all the mentionable hackers are either on Switch or PS4 right now.
     
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  7. smf

    smf GBAtemp Psycho!

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    Right, so exactly my point. I wouldn't, and most people here wouldn't, be able to currently play any games that required 7.0.0 because we don't have the hoarded keys.

    People having keys in private is no different to Nintendo having the keys in private.

    PlayStation 5 hacks are lagging behind official firmware by a year, it's only been about 3 weeks for Switch but that delay could increase in the future.
     
    Last edited by smf, Feb 18, 2019
  8. leon315

    leon315 POWERLIFTER

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    BOTH X1 and ps4(until certain fw) are hack proof, maybe Ninty should ask M$ for unhackable FW and $ony for unhackable HW.
     
  9. Meepers55

    Meepers55 Flintstones Regular

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    I've actually heard contrary to that. The security on it is top notch due to Windows 10 integration as well as Microsoft's vulnerability team. It's not irrelevant, it's just a tough nut to crack. This info comes from @bobdamnit, who seems to really know his stuff on the topic.
     
  10. ZachyCatGames

    ZachyCatGames GBAtemp Addict

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    They aren't unhackable, just less big devs/hackers care about modding them because they're less interesting (x1 pretty much just runs windows, ps4 pretty much runs a modified freebsd, and Switch runs a pretty much completely custom OS)
     
  11. TerminatR

    TerminatR Advanced Member

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    Not so sure this is true.... lots of M$ haters out there who like to exploit/hack anything microsoft related they can....

    And yeah, the PS4 is hacked, but the dev scene is kind of a ghost town. Very little effort on that scene it seems (complete opposite as switch) unless there a bunch of underground activity I am not aware of other than possible 5.5x / 6.xx exploits
     
    Last edited by TerminatR, Feb 18, 2019
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  12. leon315

    leon315 POWERLIFTER

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    let's hope TX to release 7.0 supoort then! since they are in china and copystrikes can't hit them...ofc if they are able to accomplish such monumental task, instead being a parasite...
     
  13. ZachyCatGames

    ZachyCatGames GBAtemp Addict

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    If they bundled the keys in their cfw sharing it and posting links to it would be illegal and it would be banned on many websites (including this one)

    Edit: Also TX probably doesn't even have the keys
     
    Last edited by ZachyCatGames, Feb 18, 2019
  14. smf

    smf GBAtemp Psycho!

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    It would be no more illegal than the existing cfw as SX OS already contains copyright violations, this site just doesn't care anymore.

    But you can't copyright an encryption key, fact.

    "Copyright.
    Copyright is only available on creative works. So the keys themselves cannot be copyrighted. The only role copyright plays directly is to protect the actual shipped software code. However, if the DRM scheme is used to protect copyrighted material (which is what DRM is used for) than circumventing DRM may run afoul of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). The DMCA, with some exceptions, makes a crime to circumvent an effective technological measure to protect copyrighted content."

    SX OS certainly violates DMCA, while Atmosphere breaks the trust chain therefore facilitating circumvention.

    Copy & pasting the key into the source or deriving it at run time is equally as bad.

    Technically x1 runs a modified version of Hyper-V with multiple operating systems, so if you exploit one then you don't have control of the entire machine. That seems to be the reason that nobody has bothered, maybe we'll see an exploit once the console is dead and Microsoft won't instantly patch it.

    ps4 is much easier in comparison, although it's not easy, but the people involved don't care about allowing you to play the latest games and don't want to start an arms race with Sony.

    Switch is easier than ps4 and everyone seems happy to be in an arms race with Nintendo. Who will win is not entirely clear (the hacker bravado people throw around is just arrogance)
     
    Last edited by smf, Feb 18, 2019
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  15. ZachyCatGames

    ZachyCatGames GBAtemp Addict

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    Heh


    Switch isn't easy to hack :P. The Nintendo's security is nearly flawless actually, we only got lucky because of nvidia's mistake, if nvidia hadn't made that mistake we wouldn't have homebrew above fw 3.0.0 or CFW above 1.0.

    Edit: also the point of my previous post was to say that some of our biggest developers (ex SciresM) hack the Switch partially because its the only current gen platform that's unique
     
    Last edited by ZachyCatGames, Feb 18, 2019
  16. Meepers55

    Meepers55 Flintstones Regular

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    Their security clearly isn't "nearly flawless" if you can run cfw on practically any firmware. The means of doing so don't change that fact.
     
  17. ZachyCatGames

    ZachyCatGames GBAtemp Addict

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    That's because of a flaw in nvidia's security, not Ninty's
     
  18. LinkmstrYT

    LinkmstrYT ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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    You wanted to see where I live? You stalker...
    For the older Switch units, anyway. If NVIDIA had patched up their vulnerability and also Nintendo not screwing up with a couple of designs of the Switch (like the pins on the right Joy-Con rails that helped in giving easier access to RCM), then it'd be extremely tough for many Switch hacking devs to break through and provide easy support for end-users. Otherwise, they did hugely step up the security on the Switch compared to other Nintendo consoles. And usually the unfortunate part for Nintendo consoles is that there's a lot more interest in people wanting to hack the consoles compared to Sony or Microsoft.

    iirc, newer units have been patched for a couple of things like being able to send payloads through the USB-C port which is what a lot of people do after entering into RCM. And there's no public way (from what I can remember) to send a payload to the Switch when it's in RCM for those newer units. So those with a patched Switch wanting to hack are kinda SOL for the meantime.

    In short, the Switch on the software side has impressive security, but on the hardware side is where they screwed up on.

    And here's a quote from SciresM in an interview around a year ago:
    Full interview here: https://gbatemp.net/threads/an-interview-with-a-switch-hacker.500913/
     
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  19. ZachyCatGames

    ZachyCatGames GBAtemp Addict

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    Nintendo probably uses RCM for repairing systems with broken software which probably why they made it easy to enter RCM (patched systems can still enter it the same way)

    You can still send rcm payloads over usb on patched systems, but the payload has to be signed with a key that only nvidia and/or Nintendo has (it was supposed to be like this on unpatched systems as well, but people found a way to get around it)
     
    Last edited by ZachyCatGames, Feb 18, 2019
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  20. LinkmstrYT

    LinkmstrYT ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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    You wanted to see where I live? You stalker...
    Yeah, I knew that newer units can still enter RCM through the same method (pins and such). I didn't know specifically that payloads can still be sent over, but they had to be signed. Thanks for the info!
     
    ZachyCatGames likes this.
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