Windows 64-bit may be a requirement for some future EA games

[Deleted User]

If you're referring to the fact that 32-bit and 64-bit drivers are incompatible, then duh. You'll find the same thing on Linux and OSX (though on Linux since most hardware support is in the kernel itself it's not something the normal person deals with, rather managing all the split libraries is the issue).

Actually, untrue.
The way Linux drivers are distributed are, for the most part, as their source code (With an install script usually) that directly compiles using the Linux Headers in /usr/src//include - it doesn't matter if you use a 32-bit or 64-bit kernel, they'll still work the same (apart from a specific Realtek driver in kernel 3.0+ that is a complete nightmare, but the only reason for that is because the install.sh detects amd64 incorrectly and can be fixed by manually going into certain files and changing a few things). Same driver, different architecture - it works. So yeah 32-bit and 64-bit drivers aren't incompatible as they are the same driver. Though of course a lot of people misinterpret package-files as just being the original files instead of being the files and a set of instructions to install them within the package (for example driver-i386.deb and driver-amd64.deb are actually the same thing but just pre compiled for the different architectures)., so I can see why you might be confused.

The only reason it's not the same on Windows, and why different .sys and .inf files are needed is because Windows' kernel is a "microkernel" where the drivers are stored in C:/WINDOWS/System32/drivers and work actually independently from the kernel (which is a really messed up and overcomplicated way of doing things, I don't know why Microsoft hasn't changed that yet, but oh well) as opposed to Linux's monolithic kernel which has the drivers installed directly within the kernel itself, and where new drivers are compiled into.

Sorry for the TL;DR technobabble but I just wanted to clear that up.

 

[Rydian]

And if drivers for windows are distributed in source code you can build them for either architecture... ?

I'm obviously referring to the precompiled versions.

 

[Deleted User]

And if drivers for windows are distributed in source code you can build them for either architecture... ?

I'm obviously referring to the precompiled versions.

No because there's a completely different driver management model. With Windows there's a different source code for each architecture because simply put the microkernel isn't as flexible.

 

[alphamule]

Even precompiled doesn't always mean they work on only one OS. But, dual 32b/64b drivers in a single file aren't reasonable for Windows. Even on a Mac with all it's 'fat binaries', that makes no sense for system-level code. There are some ways to make a program recompile itself for the OS, the first time it's run even if not giving out source code. Something like Java but with drivers. I'd hate to have to design something like that, though. Probably all kinds of practical reasons it'll never fly in the real world without the original source being available.

 

[Rydian]

And if drivers for windows are distributed in source code you can build them for either architecture... ?

I'm obviously referring to the precompiled versions.

No because there's a completely different driver management model. With Windows there's a different source code for each architecture because simply put the microkernel isn't as flexible.

Are you confusing the change from 32-bit to 64-bit with the change from XP to Vista/7 in regards to certain subsystems (mainly the video)?

 

[Shuny]

I don't see the problem of dropping 32 bit support. Everyone has a x64-compatible CPU and people who don't are probably not playing games anyway.

32 bit is dead, you can't allocate more than 2Gb per application (well, 4Gb if you use LAA), and it will be a severe limitation for future games. I don't even understand why Microsoft has released Windows 7 x86. It's like releasing Windows 8 with DX7 support.

 

[Rydian]

'Cause Windows isn't just gaming. There's HTPCs and netbooks and such too.

 

[Shuny]

'Cause Windows isn't just gaming. There's HTPCs and netbooks and such too.

AFAIK HTPCs and netbook use 64bits processors, so I still don't see the problem.

I don't even know if 32 bits processor are still being sold.

 

[Rydian]

With the rise of the Atom and such yeah, but remember that 7 came out in 2009, and it's also sold in other countries that aren't as advanced in technology (check out the articles on the lesser-known Windows 7 Starter edition and such for more info). A couple years ago for low-end computers and even now in poor countries, models like the Pentium/Celeron M, older P4s, and the Athlon XP series were/are quite common.

 

[Deleted User]

And if drivers for windows are distributed in source code you can build them for either architecture... ?

I'm obviously referring to the precompiled versions.

No because there's a completely different driver management model. With Windows there's a different source code for each architecture because simply put the microkernel isn't as flexible.

Are you confusing the change from 32-bit to 64-bit with the change from XP to Vista/7 in regards to certain subsystems (mainly the video)?

No.

 

[Shuny]

With the rise of the Atom and such yeah, but remember that 7 came out in 2009, and it's also sold in other countries that aren't as advanced in technology (check out the articles on the lesser-known Windows 7 Starter edition and such for more info). A couple years ago for low-end computers and even now in poor countries, models like the Pentium/Celeron M, older P4s, and the Athlon XP series were/are quite common.

Yeah but then installing Windows 7 on Athlon XP seems useless, Windows XP is a better fit for these specs

 

[Rydian]

Are you confusing the change from 32-bit to 64-bit with the change from XP to Vista/7 in regards to certain subsystems (mainly the video)?

No.

I'm pretty damn sure you are.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff559747%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
According to that collection of microsoft documents for porting 32-bit drivers to 64-bit, the same source code should be able to (with minor changes as always) make both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the drivers. Nowhere is an overhaul mentioned, in fact the vast majority of the documentation revolves around using the proper data types and making sure none of the deprecated registers are being used.

And from these microsoft documents...
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/gg487358.aspx

Remember that Windows Driver Foundation (WDF), Windows Driver Model (WDM) and tools remain the same for 32-bit and 64-bit
[...]
The 64-bit Windows programming model uses the same Win32 DDIs and APIs.

It's the move from XP to Vista/7 (NT5.x to NT6.x) where the way many drivers interact with windows changed. For example the video drivers don't hook into the kernel they way they used to. In XP if your video driver crashes, BSOD. In Vista/7 if your video driver crashes, windows can unload it and either reload it, or fall back to the default VGA driver, keeping the rest of the system running.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa480220.aspx
Check out "Overall WDDM Benefits" to read for yourself.

Also I made a typo earlier, I typed WDM when I meant DWM. XD

Yeah but then installing Windows 7 on Athlon XP seems useless, Windows XP is a better fit for these specs

Most people don't really know computers.

 

[ZAFDeltaForce]

This isn't very surprising. Games are getting more advanced and need the RAM to cope.

 

[Slowking]

haha windows 8. not after what i've read and heard about it.

-another world

You mean the immediate boost of performance and the possibility to disable Metro if you're a traditionalist? Try the consumer beta before you establish your opinion, it's pretty cool once you get used to it.

Microsoft has said repeatedly that you won't be able to turn of metro.


(...)

I can only hope for Microsoft, that there will be a hack to disable Metro. Otherwise nobody will get 8.

Metro UI can be enabled or disabled by changing a value in a single registery key:

Path: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer
Key: RPEnabled 1 (change to 0 to disable Metro)

It's really not rocket science, and even if you don't know how to do it, there's this magical button on the UI called "Desktop", guess what it does?

Yeah now. Let's see if it will be that easy in the final. I highly doubt it, since Microsoft spokespersons made it clear that here won't be anything other than metro.

 

[chartube12]

Actually if your video driver crashes and it hasn't been updated it will cause an error sometimes in the default vga resulting in the BSOD in windows 7 64bit. I know I had it happen once.

 

[Rydian]

Actually if your video driver crashes and it hasn't been updated it will cause an error sometimes in the default vga resulting in the BSOD in windows 7 64bit. I know I had it happen once.

Sure it was the video driver? I've seen people look at the BSOD, see the code for "nvidia", and assuming it's the video driver not remembering that nvidia also makes motherboard chipsets and one of those fouling up can certainly cause an issue.

 

[alphamule]

Irony: And quite often it's related to the same device even if the video driver doesn't bugcheck... Just odds are with most data going over the chipset being video and hard drive, it's probably one of those 2 that triggers the bug.
Double irony: Bad chipset drivers can make even the best motherboard, CPU, and GPU perform like a Windows 98 machine in a game. Yes, that includes both the slowness and the crashes.

Hard drive=PATA, SATA, SCSI, USB, 1384(Firewire), etc.

 

[Rydian]

Man you should have seen the issues I had when my GPU started dying on my XP machine... bad caps.

 

[Click This]

I've got mixed feelings for this. I've got a new laptop running x64, but my current main rig is still running x86 because of the shittons of legacy programs that I still use that are iffy at best on x64.

 

[PsyBlade]

I've got mixed feelings for this. I've got a new laptop running x64, but my current main rig is still running x86 because of the shittons of legacy programs that I still use that are iffy at best on x64.

I suggest Virtualbox or dualbooting