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Trump Impeachment: Public Hearings Have Begun

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RationalityIsLost101

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The White House handed over hundreds of thousands of pages of files per Congress requests yet the Democrats are still accusing Trump of not handing over anything they requested.

Were they handed by the white house to congress as part of the impeachment inquiry? Care to show evidence of this?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Then the Democrats are stating that the call Trump made was all about him because he said "Do us a favor" and then purposely left out the next thing Trump said which was "Our Nation/Country" (as in who the favor was for).

How does a proven debunked conspiracy theory for Ukraine holding the DNC server play into our national interest?

Multiple intelligence agencies debunked this long ago yet we still have our president push a false narrative.

Can you prove that this serves a purpose more than his own political interest when there is no basis to his claim?

To use that as a defense it has to have some ground. I don't see any there. If you can prove otherwise then perhaps it could stand as a defense.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

It's just unfortunate that for whatever reason when pointing out how bad of a witness Sonland was no one brought up how he lied about a very major thing under oath. That's in addition to the hundreds of times he said "I can't recall" or the many times he said "I assume" or "I presume" yet "I have no proof". I emailed a certain Congress person a minute ago and gave them the URL to the story about how Sonland lied.
The number of times someone draws an inference doesn't dispute direct evidence that is presented. For more information on what direct evidence is presented that was previously ignored by people like @cots see excerpt from Ms. Garcia. I'm awaiting legal textbook references of direct evidence that would dispute the former judge, otherwise will hold her standard to be an accurate portrayal.

As far as Sondland having access to records or not, the amount of information he provides and how it is presented. It would be necessary to review his deposition and hearing to gain a better view of his actual stance and motivation as a witness.

This would be something a Jury would have to take into account when looking at inconsistencies in any testimony.
 

Xzi

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In case anyone missed it, here's the full text of the resolution to impeach:

congress.gov said:
116th CONGRESS
1st Session


H. RES. 755

Impeaching Donald John Trump, President of the United States, for high crimes and misdemeanors.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
December 10, 2019
Mr. Nadler submitted the following resolution; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

RESOLUTION
Impeaching Donald John Trump, President of the United States, for high crimes and misdemeanors.

Resolved, That Donald J. Trump, President of the United States, is impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors and that the following articles of impeachment be exhibited to the United States Senate:

Articles of impeachment exhibited by the House of Representatives of the United States of America in the name of itself and of the people of the United States of America, against Donald J. Trump, President of the United States of America, in maintenance and support of its impeachment against him for high crimes and misdemeanors.

ARTICLE I: ABUSE OF POWER

The Constitution provides that the House of Representatives “shall have the sole Power of Impeachment” and that the President “shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors”. In his conduct of the office of President of the United States—and in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed—Donald J. Trump has abused the powers of the Presidency, in that:

Using the powers of his high office, President Trump solicited the interference of a foreign government, Ukraine, in the 2020 United States Presidential election. He did so through a scheme or course of conduct that included soliciting the Government of Ukraine to publicly announce investigations that would benefit his reelection, harm the election prospects of a political opponent, and influence the 2020 United States Presidential election to his advantage. President Trump also sought to pressure the Government of Ukraine to take these steps by conditioning official United States Government acts of significant value to Ukraine on its public announcement of the investigations. President Trump engaged in this scheme or course of conduct for corrupt purposes in pursuit of personal political benefit. In so doing, President Trump used the powers of the Presidency in a manner that compromised the national security of the United States and undermined the integrity of the United States democratic process. He thus ignored and injured the interests of the Nation.

President Trump engaged in this scheme or course of conduct through the following means:

(1) President Trump—acting both directly and through his agents within and outside the United States Government—corruptly solicited the Government of Ukraine to publicly announce investigations into—

(A) a political opponent, former Vice President Joseph R. Biden, Jr.; and

(B) a discredited theory promoted by Russia alleging that Ukraine—rather than Russia—interfered in the 2016 United States Presidential election.

(2) With the same corrupt motives, President Trump—acting both directly and through his agents within and outside the United States Government—conditioned two official acts on the public announcements that he had requested—

(A) the release of $391 million of United States taxpayer funds that Congress had appropriated on a bipartisan basis for the purpose of providing vital military and security assistance to Ukraine to oppose Russian aggression and which President Trump had ordered suspended; and

(B) a head of state meeting at the White House, which the President of Ukraine sought to demonstrate continued United States support for the Government of Ukraine in the face of Russian aggression.

(3) Faced with the public revelation of his actions, President Trump ultimately released the military and security assistance to the Government of Ukraine, but has persisted in openly and corruptly urging and soliciting Ukraine to undertake investigations for his personal political benefit.

These actions were consistent with President Trump’s previous invitations of foreign interference in United States elections.

In all of this, President Trump abused the powers of the Presidency by ignoring and injuring national security and other vital national interests to obtain an improper personal political benefit. He has also betrayed the Nation by abusing his high office to enlist a foreign power in corrupting democratic elections.

Wherefore President Trump, by such conduct, has demonstrated that he will remain a threat to national security and the Constitution if allowed to remain in office, and has acted in a manner grossly incompatible with self-governance and the rule of law. President Trump thus warrants impeachment and trial, removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States.

ARTICLE II: OBSTRUCTION OF CONGRESS

The Constitution provides that the House of Representatives “shall have the sole Power of Impeachment” and that the President “shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors”. In his conduct of the office of President of the United States—and in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed—Donald J. Trump has directed the unprecedented, categorical, and indiscriminate defiance of subpoenas issued by the House of Representatives pursuant to its “sole Power of Impeachment”. President Trump has abused the powers of the Presidency in a manner offensive to, and subversive of, the Constitution, in that:

The House of Representatives has engaged in an impeachment inquiry focused on President Trump’s corrupt solicitation of the Government of Ukraine to interfere in the 2020 United States Presidential election. As part of this impeachment inquiry, the Committees undertaking the investigation served subpoenas seeking documents and testimony deemed vital to the inquiry from various Executive Branch agencies and offices, and current and former officials.

In response, without lawful cause or excuse, President Trump directed Executive Branch agencies, offices, and officials not to comply with those subpoenas. President Trump thus interposed the powers of the Presidency against the lawful subpoenas of the House of Representatives, and assumed to himself functions and judgments necessary to the exercise of the “sole Power of Impeachment” vested by the Constitution in the House of Representatives.

President Trump abused the powers of his high office through the following means:

(1) Directing the White House to defy a lawful subpoena by withholding the production of documents sought therein by the Committees.

(2) Directing other Executive Branch agencies and offices to defy lawful subpoenas and withhold the production of documents and records from the Committees—in response to which the Department of State, Office of Management and Budget, Department of Energy, and Department of Defense refused to produce a single document or record.

(3) Directing current and former Executive Branch officials not to cooperate with the Committees—in response to which nine Administration officials defied subpoenas for testimony, namely John Michael “Mick” Mulvaney, Robert B. Blair, John A. Eisenberg, Michael Ellis, Preston Wells Griffith, Russell T. Vought, Michael Duffey, Brian McCormack, and T. Ulrich Brechbuhl.

These actions were consistent with President Trump’s previous efforts to undermine United States Government investigations into foreign interference in United States elections.

Through these actions, President Trump sought to arrogate to himself the right to determine the propriety, scope, and nature of an impeachment inquiry into his own conduct, as well as the unilateral prerogative to deny any and all information to the House of Representatives in the exercise of its “sole Power of Impeachment”. In the history of the Republic, no President has ever ordered the complete defiance of an impeachment inquiry or sought to obstruct and impede so comprehensively the ability of the House of Representatives to investigate “high Crimes and Misdemeanors”. This abuse of office served to cover up the President’s own repeated misconduct and to seize and control the power of impeachment—and thus to nullify a vital constitutional safeguard vested solely in the House of Representatives.

In all of this, President Trump has acted in a manner contrary to his trust as President and subversive of constitutional government, to the great prejudice of the cause of law and justice, and to the manifest injury of the people of the United States.

Wherefore, President Trump, by such conduct, has demonstrated that he will remain a threat to the Constitution if allowed to remain in office, and has acted in a manner grossly incompatible with self-governance and the rule of law. President Trump thus warrants impeachment and trial, removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-resolution/755/text

And we got a surprise double whammy last night, with a resolution calling for the resignation and disbarment of William Barr:

congress.gov said:
116th CONGRESS
1st Session


H. RES. 757

Calling for the resignation and disbarment of United States Attorney General William P. Barr, and for other purposes.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
December 10, 2019
Mr. Rush submitted the following resolution; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

RESOLUTION
Calling for the resignation and disbarment of United States Attorney General William P. Barr, and for other purposes.


  • Whereas, on March 24, 2019, United States Attorney General William P. Barr deliberately mischaracterized the “Report On The Investigation Into Russian Interference In The 2016 Presidential Election” issued by Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller, III;

  • Whereas, on March 25, 2019, at Attorney General Barr’s direction, the Department of Justice ceased defending the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Public Law 111–148), a duly enacted law under the United States Constitution;

  • Whereas, on April 24, 2019, Attorney General Barr directed then-Acting Assistant Attorney General John Gore of the Department of Justice’s Civil Rights Division to defy a subpoena from the House Oversight and Reform Committee pertaining to its investigation of the 2020 census;

  • Whereas, on July 8, 2019, Attorney General Barr deliberately mischaracterized the legal reasoning behind the Trump administration’s desire to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census and abruptly removed career Department of Justice attorneys in an unprecedented attempt to undermine a ruling by the Supreme Court of the United States;

  • Whereas, on July 16, 2019, Attorney General Barr ignored the recommendation of the Department of Justice’s Civil Rights Division by declining to bring charges against the New York Police Department officer in the death of Eric Garner;

  • Whereas, on July 17, 2019, the United States House of Representatives voted to hold Attorney General Barr in criminal contempt of Congress for his refusal to comply with a duly-issued subpoena and deliberate obstruction of congressional oversight authority;

  • Whereas, on December 4, 2019, Attorney General Barr threatened the withholding of police protection from communities that do not show “support and respect” to law enforcement, a statement that has been interpreted as being directed at communities of color that protest police violence;

  • Whereas Attorney General Barr has perpetuated and promulgated conspiracy theories that have been repeatedly debunked by United States law enforcement and intelligence agencies, including before a Senate Appropriations Committee hearing, where he referred to legitimate and legal law enforcement surveillance as “spying”, and while traveling abroad to meet with foreign intelligence officials where he has continued to spread this disinformation;

  • Whereas Attorney General Barr has used taxpayer funds for international travel to seek foreign assistance in investigating a domestic political rival of the President of the United States;

  • Whereas Attorney General Barr has sought to undermine the Department of Justice inspector general’s report “Review of Four FISA Applications and Other Aspects of the FBI’s Crossfire Hurricane Investigation”, regarding the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s investigation of the Trump campaign; and

  • Whereas Attorney General Barr has refused to recuse himself from any Ukraine-related matters in which he is allegedly involved: Now, therefore, be it
Resolved, That the House of Representatives—

(1) condemns United States Attorney General William P. Barr for his despicable comments and actions;

(2) calls on United States Attorney General William P. Barr to resign;

(3) calls on the Virginia State Bar to remove United States Attorney General William P. Barr from its rolls;

(4) calls on the New York State Bar Association to remove United States Attorney General William P. Barr from its rolls;

(5) calls on the District of Columbia Bar to remove United States Attorney General William P. Barr from its rolls;

(6) reaffirms support for the diversity of the United States; and

(7) reaffirms, in the strongest terms, its support for and commitment to the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-resolution/757/text?r=18
 

cots

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The hearing is still going strong. I guess @Xzi missed the link to the original PDF Congress released regarding the impeachment. It was much longer than whatever the fuck he just posted. I suggest if you want to read the the official charges to refer to the actual official charges. So now we need to get rid of Barr? Well, why not? I mean, seeing as you don't need any particular reason to impeach a President firing the attorney general for no reason should be a trivial matter.

So far the Democrats are echoing each other in a real life chamber. Lots of whining about losing in 2016 election and complaining about Constitutional abuses, which is funny considering the premeditated impeachment is abuse of the Constitution or the fact Liberals who want to rip up the Constitution are bitching about it how they are defending it. LOL! So far other than the whining they've not presented anything new and as we all know what's been presented so far during this schitt shot has no substance. While it's live on TV and has been going on all day it seems every hour they bring up the same shit. Probably for people who will only tune in for an hour or so. It's just good to finally hear the Republicans side as this entire time the Democrats wouldn't let them call their own witnesses.

They're also antagonizing the Democrats about Trump denying to give a shit about the supeanas - the shit is funny. I didn't know the Democrats threatened to take away the paychecks from any witnesses who wanted legal representation with them during testimony. I guess if you want legal representation they'll make sure you're not paid for a while. Blackmail is fine when Congress is threatening witnesses. Not that suprising considering the context surrounding the impeachment. Democrats also refused to accept some new Republican information claiming it was fabricated because they didn't like it, with no proof it was fabricated. Then they're still floating the Russian conspiracy hoax and openly admit they're doing it so he won't win in 2020 regardlessof how it turns out. Yeah, so not much new so far. Not sure how much longer it'll last. The Republican goal for today was to get as much air time as possible so they're intentionally dragging it out. I'm on day #2 of being awake and I still gotta go do stuff once this is over ...
 
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Trump looks so good right now. He even has the Democrats saying that Zelinski is being held hostage or being dishonest -- which justifies any withholding.
 

RationalityIsLost101

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Trump looks so good right now. He even has the Democrats saying that Zelinski is being held hostage or being dishonest -- which justifies any withholding.
It would be politically disadvantageous for the president of Ukraine to confirm to his nation that he was pressured to announce an investigation at behest of the US President for a variety of reasons. Three of which I list below.

1. It could damage his reputation as a anti-corruption reformer and would embolden his political opponents to pounce on hypocrisy.

2. It could endanger continuation of aid in future budget years. Trump already proposed to cut the aid sent for anti-corruption reform to Ukraine already but it was struck down due to bi-part opposition in congress. Just FYI at a minimum they need to secure 2020 aid before we hold presidential elections and it is a tossup as to which party will secure the next election cycle.

3. It could endanger the supportive foreign policy if Ukraine is re-framed as politically biased towards one US political party over another. We could turn a deaf ear and just decide to let other nations deal with Russian's aggression towards Ukraine.

There is no political benefit for Zelensky to come out and claim Trump pressured him. Democrats will still support Ukraine as they are framed as the 'victim'. Republicans would still vote to acquit Trump because they have no other leadership ready to transition off to yet and view it far more politically damaging to concede to any reality that would have Trump guilty.
 

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It would be politically disadvantageous for the president of Ukraine to confirm to his nation that he was pressured to announce an investigation at behest of the US President for a variety of reasons. Three of which I list below.

1. It could damage his reputation as a anti-corruption reformer and would embolden his political opponents to pounce on hypocrisy.

2. It could endanger continuation of aid in future budget years. Trump already proposed to cut the aid sent for anti-corruption reform to Ukraine already but it was struck down due to bi-part opposition in congress. Just FYI at a minimum they need to secure 2020 aid before we hold presidential elections and it is a tossup as to which party will secure the next election cycle.

3. It could endanger the supportive foreign policy if Ukraine is re-framed as politically biased towards one US political party over another. We could turn a deaf ear and just decide to let other nations deal with Russian's aggression towards Ukraine.

There is no political benefit for Zelensky to come out and claim Trump pressured him. Democrats will still support Ukraine as they are framed as the 'victim'. Republicans would still vote to acquit Trump because they have no other leadership ready to transition off to yet and view it far more politically damaging to concede to any reality that would have Trump guilty.


Yeah, it's such an advantageous situation for Trump. It totally calls for more skepticism on foreign aid in the future! Brilliant, wonderful performance.
 

RationalityIsLost101

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I didn't know the Democrats threatened to take away the paychecks from any witnesses who wanted legal representation with them during testimony. I guess if you want legal representation they'll make sure you're not paid for a while. Blackmail is fine when Congress is threatening witnesses. Not that suprising considering the context surrounding the impeachment.

Its not blackmail. That's just not what blackmail means. Sigh...

If @cots read any of the white house letter I attached in our discussion on the thread of whether or not executive privilege is valid in a formalized congressional impeachment inquiry he would have been aware of this almost a month ago. He persisted in arguing about white-house exerting absolute immunity during that entire latter half of the thread without ever looking at the document.

It just validates how useless discussions w/ hyper-partisans are when they refuse to even read any source that they perceive will conflict with their views.

https://gbatemp.net/threads/questio...ed-impeachment-inquiry-subpoena.552832/page-4

https://apps.npr.org/documents/docu...te-House-Letter-to-Speaker-Pelosi-Et-Al-10-08
 

Xzi

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Yeah, it's such an advantageous situation for Trump. It totally calls for more skepticism on foreign aid in the future! Brilliant, wonderful performance.
So you're admitting that what is advantageous to Russia is also advantageous to Trump? He's sure as shit not calling for a review of the foreign aid we provide to Saudi Arabia or Israel (both very corrupt governments in their own right), this is exclusively about limiting US support of Ukraine.
 
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Fugelmir

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So you're admitting that what is advantageous to Russia is also advantageous to Trump? He's sure as shit not calling for a review of the foreign aid we provide to Saudi Arabia or Israel, this is exclusively about limiting US support of Ukraine.

It could be. Israel is a technological mastermind factory and should probably be supported. Saudi Arabia, aside from material resources, doesn't have much to offer. All countries suffer from government corruption. Hopefully a lot more aid gets cut as a result.

It's a nice thing to help a country achieve a free democracy; but if it just doesn't happen for decades, what's the point, really?
 

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Yeah, it's such an advantageous situation for Trump. It totally calls for more skepticism on foreign aid in the future! Brilliant, wonderful performance.
The skepticism for foreign aid is already present in American politics. This does little to move the needle for or against support. It just polarizes the topic to a democrat vs republican rather than fiscal vs not. I'm sure there are other subcamps that would describe pro foreign aid vs against.

Foreign aid has many uses as it is a type of influence that US can use as part of its foreign policy to push pro american agenda/interest. For the past few decades it hasn't always been used properly and is prone to corruption from corporate influence that aims to personally profit on political leverage applied to other countries.

You also have examples where politicians also seek kickbacks as well for enacting our foreign policy with other countries, often via those same exploitative corporations. Something I think most Americans do not support but has been rampant on both sides and persists even to this day in our current administration.

Until we overturn citizens united I don't see this changing no matter who we elect.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

It could be. Israel is a technological mastermind factory and should probably be supported. Saudi Arabia, aside from material resources, doesn't have much to offer. All countries suffer from government corruption. Hopefully a lot more aid gets cut as a result.

It's a nice thing to help a country achieve a free democracy; but if it just doesn't happen for decades, what's the point, really?
Uhh, Saudis buy a ton from our military industrial complex.

Israel is a technological mastermind factory? I'm sorry can you explain this further I'm lost as to what you are asserting.

One of the primary reasons we want to promote 'democracy' (I believe regime change is more accurate a term) imo is due to ensuring trade that benefits our interests, or what I believe more accurately whoever's interests the party in power serve, which for the past few decades have been corporate interests first, american public second.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état

America's backed coup in Iran in 1953 is a good historical example of us toppling a democracy because they had the audacity to assert unfavorable trade conditions to us. At least this is my best understanding of that situation.
 
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Xzi

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It could be. Israel is a technological mastermind factory and should probably be supported. Saudi Arabia, aside from material resources, doesn't have much to offer. All countries suffer from government corruption. Hopefully a lot more aid gets cut as a result.
Israeli technology and weapons would be shit without everything the US provides for them, we should be spending that money on the betterment of our own country rather than using it to enable Palestinian genocide. Saudi Arabia has demonstrated that they have nothing but hatred for America and our people time and time again. In neither case is there any chance of Trump or the Republicans distancing themselves from these countries, because the relationships remain profitable for our military industrial complex.

It's a nice thing to help a country achieve a free democracy; but if it just doesn't happen for decades, what's the point, really?
The point is that Ukraine is a firewall preventing Russia from staging an even larger-scale invasion of other countries, as well as waging a new form Cold War against Western democracies the world over. If a majority of people in free nations remain ignorant and apathetic, history is doomed to repeat itself.
 

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In case anyone missed it, here's the full text of the resolution to impeach:


https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-resolution/755/text

And we got a surprise double whammy last night, with a resolution calling for the resignation and disbarment of William Barr:


https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-resolution/757/text?r=18
Yay, thanks Santa! What a beautiful gift to hang on the fridge! :grog: And even a bonus resolution in the stocking!

Impeaching Donald John Trump
Huh, never really thought about it but I didn't know his middle name.
 
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cots

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Damn they are still at it. I'm on some other forums and we've started a pool on who in this session will fall asleep first. I bet $50. The Democrats want to know what Rudy Giuliani is doing in Ukraine this week. He's still digging up dirt on them. I wonder how many more ammendment propositions the Republicans have planned? This shit is epic. 12 hours straight and still no actual evidence has been presented by the Democrats. No fact witnesses - only assumptions. The Senate is now trying to talk Trump out of a witnesses trial as they want to take care of the matter in less than a week. I wonder if Trump wins if the Liberals will finally admit they lost in 2016 and cut the shit?
 
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Xzi

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I wonder if Trump wins if the Liberals will finally admit they lost in 2016 and cut the shit?
You're the one that needs to cut the shit. Impeachment is in no way, shape, or form a means to overturn elections. Anybody who believes that garbage needs to re-take middle school civics/government classes, assuming they've ever taken one to begin with.
 
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RationalityIsLost101

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Damn they are still at it. I'm on some other forums and we've started a pool on who in this session will fall asleep first. I bet $50. The Democrats want to know what Rudy Giuliani is doing in Ukraine this week. He's still digging up dirt on them. I wonder how many more ammendment propositions the Republicans have planned? This shit is epic. 12 hours straight and still no actual evidence has been presented by the Democrats. No fact witnesses - only assumptions. The Senate is now trying to talk Trump out of a witnesses trial as they want to take care of the matter in less than a week. I wonder if Trump wins if the Liberals will finally admit they lost in 2016 and cut the shit?
Hyper-partisan view from @cots. It can equally be argued that republicans refuse to even acknowledge direct evidence presented by either witness testimony, call memorandum, or Giuliani's interviews vs a preferred right-wing narrative that there lies 'no evidence whatsoever'.

@cots also demonstrates once again he doesn't understand what an actual fact witness is despite people bringing it to his attention multiple times in this thread.
 

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You're the one that needs to cut the shit. Impeachment is in no way, shape, or form a means to overturn elections. Anybody who believes that garbage needs to re-take middle school civics/government classes, assuming they've ever taken one to begin with.

I agree with you, which is why it's a shame the Liberals planned to use it to oust Trump since before he took office. I do wonder though, seeings as the Liberals now claim to support the Constitution if when Trump beats this if they'll admit defeat. You'll have the 3 branches working things out. If you only take the Congress side and continue to harass Trump with impeachment then you're not going by the separation of powers. You know what else is unconstitutional? Rejecting the results of an election due to the fact you don't like the electoral college. Though, the Liberals claiming they support the Constitution had me laughing for like 2 minutes straight. I had tears in my eyes as they're so full of shit I couldn't stop laughing.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

21:30 Mountain Time (USA) - Wednesday, December 12th, 2019

Well, it looks like it's over. The Republicans didn't want it to end, but they weren't given much choice in the matter (actually, they were given no choice). I guess I won't be losing or winning that $50. I still don't know why the other day Republicans brought up the fact Sonland lied that he didn't have access to his State Dept records when he testified under oath to Congress, but not bring it up today. I wonder how much attention will be given to the Republicans testimony by the main stream media. Some funny shit did happen! Biden's son was a crack head at one point in his life. Not only does crack dependence greatly reduce your cognitive skills for years, but crack addicts will do whatever it takes to get more drugs, including stealing and sex acts. I wonder if daddy bailed him out on a daily basis and bought him his dope so he didn't have to go suck a fat drug dealers dick to get his fix. I understand that this had nothing to do with the impeachment, but it fucking cracked me up. To be fair the Democrats kept bringing up totally unrelated shit to the impeachment today, like the new Canada and Mexico trade agreement they were bragging about (yet, they forget to inform the public Trump was behind it). Trump's such a danger to the free world, yet we have the best economy in 50 years ... If that's a threat I'll take two more orders. Let's clone him.
 
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Xzi

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I agree with you, which is why it's a shame the Liberals planned to use it to oust Trump since before he took office.
This is an equally moronic argument. It's like suggesting Republicans planned, before he was elected, to impeach Clinton for a blowjob by using Lewinsky as an undercover agent. It's impossible to know ahead of time whether or not a president will commit impeachable offenses. The best anyone can do is guess and/or use past behavior to predict future behavior.

I do wonder though, seeings as the Liberals now claim to support the Constitution if when Trump beats this if they'll admit defeat.
Will you admit defeat when impeachment passes the House? Didn't think so. How is it any more significant that the Republican-controlled Senate will vote not to remove him from office? It isn't. Your childish obsession with "winning" and "losing" borders on a psychological disorder, and it's that type of simplistic understanding of how the world works which is going to cause the downfall of this country.
 

Josshy0125

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This is an equally moronic argument. It's like suggesting Republicans planned, before he was elected, to impeach Clinton for a blowjob by using Lewinsky as an undercover agent. It's impossible to know ahead of time whether or not a president will commit impeachable offenses. The best anyone can do is guess and/or use past behavior to predict future behavior.


Will you admit defeat when impeachment passes the House? Didn't think so. How is it any more significant that the Republican-controlled Senate will vote not to remove him from office? It isn't. Your childish obsession with "winning" and "losing" borders on a psychological disorder, and it's that type of simplistic understanding of how the world works which is going to cause the downfall of this country.
You're fighting an up-hill battle my friend. The politically-ignorant don't concede, nor do they listen to logic. They've got blinders up and just want to "stick it to the libtards". You won't change his mind. He's too held back by his own delusions, bias, and hatred for the other party. He's part of a cult. You can't change somebody who's part of a cult...
 
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