Trump Impeachment: Public Hearings Have Begun

Discussion in 'World News, Current Events & Politics' started by IncredulousP, Nov 13, 2019.

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  1. cots

    cots GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    My point was that it's pretty pointless to bring up statistics into a conversation as the focus will then turn into a verbal war about the validity of the statistics. Plus, a lot of the time, like ones that try to predict something, turn out to not predict anything.

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    A lot of people aren't involved in politics. A lot of people don't watch the news. Sure, they all hate Trump, but they aren't even sure why. I spent the first 30 years of my life ignoring them. If I ever picked up a news paper I'd turn directly to the comics. If the news came on I'd change the channel. If people tried to talk to me about issues I'd change the subject. So like I was surrounded by people that acted the same way I did. It's completely believable that most people don't know or don't care about the impeachment. I mean it's the 10th attempt and honestly I don't care how it turns out.
     
    Last edited by WeedZ, Nov 20, 2019 - Reason: Reply to trashed post
  2. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter

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    I've noticed that. And that's exactly why I told @cots why the two (seemingly contradicting) polls could both be true.

    Look...you and me are on different sides of the argument (okay, perhaps I should put @Xzi in my spot, as I'm not an American citizen). And not without reason, as it's not that hard to see that Trump polarizes things. You're either in favor of impeachment or you're against it.

    ...except that, indeed, a (to me surprisingly) large group chooses NOT to have an outspoken opinion. That's of course an assumption, but not one without bias. This whole thing has been going on for well over a month, and you pretty much have to live under a rock not to have heard about the situation. But those 42% want to do exactly that. They don't want to be involved in whether or not he's done something wrong.

    This is, however, a very different thing than "not caring". With seventy procent thinking he did it, at the very least 12% combine the "I think he did it" with "I don't follow the news closely". Sure, they might not have had much of an opinion before they were called by politico...but that doesn't invalidate it.


    I can't say too much of your source, but I do notice that they're focussing on specific focus groups. More specifically, groups brought together by 'America First Policies'. I'm not too familiar with that either, but it seems to me that choosing to participate already diminishes the chances for objectivity (meaning: it only attracts those that have strong feelings toward that group). Furthermore, it doesn't so much question the participants individually as bring them in a talking panel of which a selection of soundbites are selected. Perhaps this selection is done on an objective basis, but even so this mostly reflects the view of the most informed and extravert people in the group. So...sorry, but I'm sure that this sort of checking yields different results depending on a variety of reasons (it's not even a poll).
     
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  3. AmandaRose
    This message by AmandaRose has been removed from public view by WeedZ, Nov 20, 2019, Reason: Offtopic.
    Nov 19, 2019
  4. UltraDolphinRevolution

    UltraDolphinRevolution GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    So if the impeachment fails (which is likely, I think), there's a good chance Americans will choose between corrupt creepy Joe and clumsy Trumpsy.
    Democracy at its best.
     
  5. RationalityIsLost101

    RationalityIsLost101 GBAtemp Regular

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    Well if you are registered republican you could gather others to fight to primary Trump. If you are a registered democrat you can gather others to support another democrat candidate. If you aren't registered to any party then perhaps consider changing that. Once we finish primaries your options indeed are vastly limited. That's how our political elections go.

    If you worry about politicians not representing their constituents properly then maybe overturn Citizens United, thus restricting the amount of money that wealthy corporations and lobbyist inject in our elections. I would anticipate our elected officials would be tightly beholden to constituent's interest not only to secure votes but to secure the funding to run in the first place.

    This would benefit both parties unless you are primarily concerned with policies that support corporate outsourcing, obscure and inflated medical costs, and other lobbied special interests that aren't backed by the majority of Americans.

    *This is getting off-topic but this is solely in effort to point out what options are actually present to the American people vs the options people push upon us.*
     
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  6. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat

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    The polls are nowhere near that definitive right now. Some say Biden leads nationally, others say it's Sanders, others say it's Warren. There are also a number of corporate mega-donors starting to shift their support from Biden to Buttigieg. It's going to be close right up to the final state's primary, and the first one hasn't even been held yet.
     
  7. Ev1l0rd

    Ev1l0rd (⌐◥▶◀◤) Developer - noirscape

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    Not sure what the hell you're looking at, but when I check mediabiasfactcheck for the daily caller, they put them under MIXED for factual reporting. and specifically state "A factual search reveals a very poor track record with fact checking. Here is a short list of some failed fact checks". The reason they're not placed in the questionable category is solely because of the sheer quantity of articles they put out causing enough articles to not be factually wrong to put them in the questionable articles and it states its only barely not questionable.

    Trump actively panders to white supremacists. They clearly have a vested interest to keep them into power. Also "good case", how about them hosting articles written by Jason Kessler (Charlottesville organizer). Granted they did take those down but their editor defended Kessler anyway. Furthermore, Scott Greer was let go after it came to light that he wrote articles for Radix Journal (a biannual magazine published by self-identified neo-nazi Richard Spencer) under a pseudonym. Note however that he only was let go 2 years after it already was known that he was a white supremacist (through pictures on his Facebook page) and that the Caller only let him go after the Atlantic ran a piece on him writing for Radix.

    This is just from the most cursory glance possible (aka "I look at Wikipedia").

    D-do I have to unpack that entire screed about LGBTQ stuff and religion?

    Y'know what, screw it. I'm not going to. I'll just focus on the polls thing, just know that you're describing the paradox of tolerance. Look it up, it's something that's interesting and explains a lot as to why you shouldn't be tolerant to the intolerant.

    Anyway, I don't put much value in the majority of polls, especially internet ones. Considering how easy it typically is to bombard them with fake information, there's often little value in them. I hold more value in polls made by mainstream organization or those conducted by organizations which make an effort to be nonpartisan, since those organizations have clearly put in the effort to go the extra mile to not just be a poll with a predetermined conclusion and skewering the stats one way or another.

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    My take? It's going to be Warren but it should be Sanders.

    Biden is probably not gonna hold out and Buttigieg has zero appeal to voters.
     
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  8. cots

    cots GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    What makes someone a white supremacist? Once you learn exactly who they are and what they stand for you'll realize that the media has it all wrong. Then once you're able to identify actual members you'll realize they are such a small minority in the USA that their vote doesn't even matter. Every single one of them could not vote and it would have no real impact on the election. Sure, they have twisted views and such, but they don't represent shit when it comes to the American people. It's like saying 12 school shooters represent the views of millions of school children. It's completely bat shit insane that you would even consider that such a small group has any real influence over anything. They're just being used by the Liberal media as some sort of fake representation for the entire White race. Frankly, using them in such a manner is racist as fuck and the media is definitely generalizing about White people. Although, this is the same media that claims anything that they disagree with is racist and their users hear that word and default to accepting anything that comes after like little robots with 12 byte memory chips. I would suggest you look into how many people in the White race are actually white supremacist before you bring them up again. Maybe you'd realize they don't represent shit.
     
    Last edited by cots, Nov 19, 2019
  9. cots

    cots GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    Yeah, I am basing my opinions of how I refer to the current trans movement because I'm referring to dealing with the current trans movement here in the country that I live in. I've tried to always make it clear that I'm not addressing "all trans" people. You see how when I replied to you I mentioned "American Liberals"? Look, I live in the inner city. I've been attacked twice in the last 8 years by drug addicts for no reason for simply walking up to the store to get a fucking coke. The LBGTQ people I deal with on a weekly basis are pretty shit. Not to mention then I see how the LGBTQ youth or the more mainstream ones treat people online who simply don't agree with them. Christians don't hate homosexuals, they think homosexuality is a sin. If you can differentiate between the two then you have no right to judge them of hatred. Everyone is a sinner. Christians don't deny they're just as a sinner as any LGBTQ member. Frankly, Christians are the subject to more actual hatred by LGBTQ people and society in general. You're right though. It's not all LGBTQ. I know because I'm very tolerant of people and their religious beliefs. I also don't get all triggered when someone actually is homophobic around me and I definitely don't lose my shit simply based on someone simply not agreeing with my lifestyle.

    So like while I realize that there are perfectly upstanding people that you must understand I don't see many of them. It's natural for someone to deal with life based on what they experience and know. Maybe if I wouldn't have signed up to this forum and replied to a topic dealing with how I felt about trans people and then wouldn't have been subjected to being called transphobic or having my posts deleted because I simply disagree with cutting body parts off or the life style that the trans people I deal with usually lead then possibly I'd be less defensive about the issue on this site. I can understand being attacked by Liberals because I honesty fucking hate them, but to be discriminated against by fellow LGBTQ members is really shitty. I spent my entire childhood actually impacted by real homophobia. I was beat up in school while the teachers looked the other way for years. When I finally did stick up for myself I was expelled. My Dad told me when I was 12 and I came out "I don't want you anymore" and then he got rid of me. Back when I was growing up it was something you never talked about and if you did you would experience real phobic behavior. So then I spent years involved in educating the public about how their being wrong and after all of that work and how better I've made things for the next generation I am then subjected to the same type of behavior from the LGBTQ community that I was subjected to by the people back in the 80's. Everyone thinks they're so advanced and loving and tolerant, but at the end of the day they are full of shit.

    So like, yeah I realize that there are good and bad people out there. I treat people like they treat me. If you're going to attack me I'm probably going to defend myself. Seeings as how I've been treated by my own fucking community I can understand the high assault rates, murder rates and suicide rates. It makes sense that if you're LGBTQ and go around trying to force your shit on other people that they're going to fight back. So you get all pissy that society isn't accepting you and get suicidal. Well, society would be more accepting if you weren't trying to force shit they don't agree with on them. I'm not saying that how society responds if the right thing to do, but like if you go around provoking people and then get hurt then maybe you should stop going around provoking people. Per say, if you're randomly attacked for being LGBTQ then that's an actual act of phobic behavior and also a hate crime. Those are the type of situations I would fully support the person being attacked. The youth today are lucky that if they are attacked for being LGBTQ that their attacker would get punished. That didn't happen when I was their age.

    I do keep an open mind about things, but you're not here. You wouldn't expect a person who has washed dishes their entire life that has never owned a computer to know how to deal with programming native ASM code for the 3DS CPU. You get that right? You're not dealing with what I deal with and I'm not telling you how to deal with things in your own country. So in your country and you personally and your society in general is more tolerant of others. Maybe you should come over here and speak to the youth and teach them a thing or two about actual tolerance and acceptance. Although, I would expect if you tried that you'd run into the brick wall of hatred that I do or maybe you'd have better luck. All I know is that the LGBTQ people I often run into are fucking just as racist, bias, bigoted and full of hate as anyone else is.
     
    Last edited by cots, Nov 19, 2019
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  10. AmandaRose

    AmandaRose Do what I do. Hold tight and pretend it’s a plan

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    You have just pointed out something else that is totally different to here. We are accepted by the Catholic and protestant churches here and being gay/trans is not considered a sin by any means. I do feel sorry for you as America sure seems like one fucked up place to live.
     
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  11. seany1990

    seany1990 GBAtemp Regular

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    Yes because the gop is corrupt.
    Why you wear it with a badge of honour I don't know...
     
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  12. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member

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    Eh.. I tend to sympathize, but if they get into speaking in them townsquares again, they really have figured that part out.. ;) (Germany just had a recent 'rebirth' of the movement which now seems to have somewhat petered out at 15%). Also I dont think 'tha media' blames white supremacists for todays problems, do they? Its more that you have to kind of keep saying that racism is bad, because there is always this underlying potential of that bubbling up again.

    see: https://gbatemp.net/threads/fascism-a-primer.531696/

    Also - it kind of is important, that you have lost the argument at - "What actually makes someone a white suppremacist - lets look into it..." It has to stay a taboo.
     
    Last edited by notimp, Nov 19, 2019
  13. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat

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    For those not aware, Kurt Volker testified today. He was meant to be the big star witness chosen by Republicans to dispute the idea that Ukrainian aid was tied to investigations into the Bidens. Well, surprise surprise, he changed his earlier testimony to reflect what all the other witnesses have been saying: there was definitely quid pro quo/bribery involved.

    I think that by now, the vast majority of the president's remaining defenders have given up on trying to claim that he didn't do it, and have instead switched to the argument that his actions "WeRen'T tHaT bAd." This of course ignores the reality that parts of Ukraine are involved in a hot war with Russia, and ANY delay in releasing military aid means potentially hundreds dead. Not to mention the fact that the Trump administration only released the aid at all because they were caught in the act of withholding it.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, Nov 19, 2019
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  14. chrisrlink

    chrisrlink Intel Pentium III Hamster inside

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    inside your crappy old PC
    weeks you mean @cots wI'm not stupid that your basicly breaking the ban evasion rule or should i say billapong
     
  15. cots

    cots GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    As far as I'm aware I'm not breaking any rules by posting what happened (like, why I left and all). I've been warned and suspended in the past (I posted a picture of what the results of an abortion look like), but I've never banned from this site. Though my ex created an account here to give the Staff shit after I left and without my consent (I think they confused him for me as this site does leech fingerprint data from the browser and OS and he was using my computer). I think it's been around 6 months since I last logged in, but it could have been less (it's definitely not weeks). Nor am I sure what a billapong is. Is that some sort of Liberal insult?

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    I'm sure there are places in the USA that are nice, but those are reserved for people that have money. Unfortunately, I'm stuck in the inner city ghetto surrounded by warring gangs that peddle dope to the community that's mainly coming in illegally over the border. Non-citizens who break the law are treated better than I am. Oh well, what can you do? I decided to be a law abiding honest citizen and play by the rules and I don't do drugs. At least I'm not living under a bridge (but, that's a possibly as my "help" could end at any given time). Life is fucking wonderous like that.
     
  16. AmandaRose

    AmandaRose Do what I do. Hold tight and pretend it’s a plan

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    Billapong is a site member who appeared right after you left and said a whole lot of stuff EXACTLY word for word the way you pharse things expecially about liberals and transgenders . Billapong then left the site and you popped back up right after. Which i am sure is all just a total coincidence.
     
    Last edited by AmandaRose, Nov 20, 2019
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  17. cots

    cots GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    Yeah, heaven help us if the media had to actually lay out a valid definition and use it correctly for a group of people they're addressing. What sort of world would we be living if honesty would come first?

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    Okay, so I just looked this user up. I don't have the time or desire to read hundreds of posts and their profile is private so I can't get a list of their posts, but from the thread I did find it seems he (or she?) shares a Conservative viewpoint (as he/she is defending Trump). If this person hates Liberals then that's not a bad thing. Conservatives usually share common values, but I'm not a Conservative anymore. I don't think this person speaks like I do, but maybe he/she was born and raised in the south? We tend to all talk alike. If you'll notice by reading ABC compared to Fox most people from either side of the issue just say the same shit over and over again. I dunno, hey @billapong , what's up? You're supposedly my second personality or something. ROFL.

    Edit: Okay I couldn't help myself and read a thread he posted. He states he drives a car, which I haven't had a car for 20 years. He states he works. I'm disabled and can't work. He states he was alive in the 70's and I wasn't. Though, the subject matter was spot on and the "welcome to my ignore list" was classic (I don't ignore anyone I simply don't agree with. I think I've put like 1 or 2 people on ignore out since I joined back in 2014). I do agree with him that the kids should not go starving and that the schools should provide lunches and then charge the parents refusing to feed their own kids for them. That way the kids don't starve and the terrible parents get dealt with. It makes sense, but whatever, there's clearly major differences between what this person says and what I say.
     
    Last edited by cots, Nov 20, 2019
  18. cots

    cots GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    “Did anyone ever ask you to bribe or extort anyone at any time during your time in the White House?" House Intelligence Committee Ranking Member Devin Nunes, R-Calif., asked at one point in Tuesday's hearing.

    Former National Security Council (NSC) aide Tim Morrison: "No."

    U.S. Special Representative for Ukraine Kurt Volker: “No."

    Later, Rep. Elise Stefanik, R-N.Y., hit the same notes in asking the witnesses about Trump's fateful July 25 call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky: "Mr. Morrison, you were on that call, and there was no quid pro quo, correct? No bribery? No extortion?"

    "Correct," Morrison replied in response to each question.

    "And, Ambassador Volker, I presume you got a readout of the call. ... Was there any reference to withholding aid? Any reference to bribery? Any reference to quid pro quo? Any reference to extortion?"

    "No, there was not," Volker replied, again and again.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Well, this sums up today's testimony. Trump is being accused of quid pro quo / bribery and today's witnesses, just like last weeks, have no evidence any happened. I would agree in impeaching Trump if any of the witnesses actually could testify that they witnessed any actual crimes taking place and those crimes were impeachable offenses. *yawn* ... Another waste of a day of testimony. I wonder if any of the witnesses will have any actual evidence of the crimes the Democrats are accusing Trump of? If not maybe they'll have a witness tomorrow that can testify on the amount of time it takes to cook a 1/2 lb hamburger in an air fryer. I plan on buying some ground beef to cook after I watch the hearing.

     
    Last edited by cots, Nov 20, 2019
  19. RationalityIsLost101

    RationalityIsLost101 GBAtemp Regular

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    I haven't watched all of Morrison's testimony but it seems he had an axe to grind w/ Vindman. He explicitly claimed his predecessor, Dr. Hill, told him Vindman had "poor judgement" yet all of Dr. Hill's written evals were glowing in praise and even claimed he had "excellent judgement". I also took note on how many times specific contradictions in his testimony vs others such as Taylor were stated he would claim he simply couldn't remember but had a vivid memory in matters with Vindman, for example where he tried to argue against Vindman's decision of going to a lawyer instead of him as his superior, yet he himself went straight to the same lawyer.

    Morrison obviously felt there was some impropriety to request to the lawyer, John Eisenburg, that the call be restricted to a small number of people to prevent leaking in fear that it would stoke political fires. Yet Morrison disagreed that anything in the call was inappropriate. However, when people replaced biden's name w/ republican names (Kasich) he said that would be out of bounds and inappropriate. Nevertheless, it was interesting to see him pretzel around the July 25th call.

    I suspect Morrison, who resigned just prior to presenting his deposition, is expecting to leverage his government experience for a more profitable position, unlike Volker who refused to even take a paycheck. Volker seemed to have either one of the most naive minds in government or more likely he was apathetic to the unfolding situation but careful enough to use coded language to keep himself from self-incrimination.

    Finally, it is apparent that when Vindman passed information to a 'member of the intelligence community' this is potentially the individual who became the whistleblower. This individual had the appropriate clearance to know what was on the July 25th call. By the way, State is George Kent.

    "THEY DID NOT CIRCLE BACK AROUND AND WHAT ENDED UP HAPPENING IS THAT IN THE COORDINATION ROLE I SPOKE TO STATE, AND A MEMBER OF THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY, AND THE GENERAL COUNSEL FROM ONE OF THE INTELLIGENCE BODIES NOTIFIED MR. EISENBERG THAT THERE WAS, YOU KNOW, THAT THERE WAS INFORMATION ON THE CALL, THE JULY 25th CALL,AND AT THAT POINT, MR. EISENBERG TOLD ME I SHOULD NOT TALK TO ANYBODY ELSE ABOUT IT."
     
  20. Staff Posts Notice
    WeedZ

    WeedZ Possibly an Enlightened Being

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    The State of Denial
    This thread has nothing to do with the kkk, slave owners, Christians, gender, sexuality, or school shootings. If you guys cant stay focused on the topic at hand, and stop derailing with obvious flamebait, I'm just going to start reply banning.
     
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  21. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    It could also be politics stresses them out. So maybe they care but avoid it because of the craziness so it's why they are not in the know. Usually the advice given to foreigners traveling to America is do not talk politics with Americans because they are very vocal and things get heated.
     
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