Donald Trump impeachment investigation over Ukranian phone call...

[Taleweaver]

Okay...I would think there'd be a thread about this already, but since there isn't...

At first it looked like your average day in today's USA. Current scandal is a whistleblower claiming that Donald Trump tried to get the Ukranian president to start an investigation into Hunter Biden (son of Joe, aka...the democratic frontrunner).

Ukraine isn't exactly willing to co-operate (even though Trump allegedly mentioned this eight times), and they're currently denying that this phone call happened. Trump denied this as well, but as usual, his diplomatic skills are so low that he might as well not bother lying. Because, okay, he denies that claim, but at the same time admits that he has personally ordered his staff to freeze millions in aid to the country. And Rudy Giuliani (Trump's lawyer)...I don't know what that guy's strategy is, but I would suspect it to be something in the line of "I somehow have to act even more suspicious than my boss". I've seen a interview of him denying digging up dirt on H. Biden and then proudly claiming to have done it SECONDS LATER.

So...I was just about to close my daily dose of Trump antics with a mere "yup...glad I don't live in THAT country " when something piqued my interest. This time democrats aren't going to let it slide. They've started an impeachment procedure in this matter.

My first impression was a solid "huh???". I mean...sucks to be Mueller right now: there you are, having spent over 2 years of investigating, finding intentions, motives, accomplishes, witnesses and basically writing "IMPEACH THIS GUY" in neon letters over his 500-page rapport, but democrats (okay: Nancy Pelossi...plenty of democrats disagreeing with her) simply said "nope...we're not going to do that".
And now some anonymous source comes along with a run-of-the-mill scandal and democrats are impeaching? Heh...

But on second thought, it makes sense. I mean...in the other case, you could say Trump was too dumb to see what his aides did for him. You could also say that he was unaware of the legal consequences. And heck...it wasn't like he intended to be president, so why stop dealing with Russia?
At least things are different: this time he's president, he can't claim ignorance or blame his aides for whom he's responsible. So...the case is stronger than Russia gate.

...if it's true, of course. It's way too early to say much more. Investigation is still ongoing. What's pretty much a scoop: Trump offering to release the transcript of the phone call. So at least he's not obstructing justice this time. That's nice to hear.


Oh, and as it was last time: don't get your hopes up of Trump actually leaving the white house. No matter how the investigation turns out, it's all up to senate. And it'll take a two thirds majority for the impeachment to send him packing. The former two presidents quit before it came to a vote, but as it turned out Trump has a tight grip over republicans. So it's probably just as unlikely that republicans vote for anything but in their party's interest.

Some random sources:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/23/us/politics/trump-un-biden-ukraine.html
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-lawy...ssed-ukraine-transcript-prior-release-1461316
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/25/politics/donald-trump-nancy-pelosi-impeachment/index.html

EDIT: a few relevant (and hopefully somewhat objective) important sources:

The full transcript of the phone call between Zelenskyy and Trump
The original whistleblower complaint

EDIT 2: Mulvany flat out confessed witholding Ukraine aid in order to get an investigation going...

Chief of Staff admits Ukraine aid witheld, undercutting denial of Quid Pro Quo

EDIT 3: next testimony by William Taylor also points at this

Ambassador William Taylor ties Ukraine aid holdup directly to Trump

 

[chrisrlink]

sadly i'm for impeachment but let's be real republicans are majority in the senate and we know the majority of them (in the political world) are as corrupt as him i doubt if he commits genocide they'll impeach him

 

[osaka35]

and now some anonymous source comes along with a run-of-the-mill scandal and democrats are impeaching? Heh....

This is probably just a case of being a far more simplified case of treason. Easier to show and inform the public, which is usually the biggest problem. People who have personally invested in this person will hide in complexity to ignore the things he's done. But this sort of thing is so clear-cut and provable, and obviously treason, it's that push they needed I guess.

 

[chrisrlink]

only hope is to stall nancy didn't make a wise move and did this before election we would have a better chance after (if dems get both house/senate) i wonder if the can stall until election for a better shot

 

[ghjfdtg]

This is some real news compared with the cherrypicked nonsense the other dude posted recently. Thank you.

 

[Relys]

Another one of the reasons that is suspected why Democrats didn't call for impeachment sooner is because it would be much harder to do while the economy is up. Unfortunately, as @chrisrlink mentioned I highly doubt this will go through as republicans control the majority and it has becoming increasingly obvious that they have no backbone what-so-ever (party over country). If he is impeached we would get Pence until next election, which honestly wouldn't be a bad thing as I think he wouldn't have a chance of winning at all (as he doesn't have the personality cult that Trump has).

Here's to hoping we get someone like Bernie or Yang for our next POTUS and not some middle of the road, corporate democrat centrist like Biden.

 

[ut2k4master]

the transcript already got released

 

[Viri]

Nothing will happen.

 

[Subtle Demise]

Can we impeach him for violating the second amendment instead?

 

[osaka35]

My guess is Trump will try and get immunity for the things him and his family could be criminally tried for, cash out, and throw everyone else under the bus who won't impact his money. He'll step down, say it was his idea and create some silly reason why. Pence may not run for election and it will leave the field wide open, meaning there's a chance for another republican president.

Hopefully by a Bernie/Warren ticket will still win though.

 

[CallmeBerto]

Read Trump's phone conversation with Volodymyr Zelensky

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/25/politics/donald-trump-ukraine-transcript-call/index.html

 

[BeniBel]

People should really do some investigating, before blindly believing everything that is reported. It's shocking how many quotes from Trump has been pulled out of context by the news.

Point is that Trump was elected for 2 main reasons. First is that Hillary wasn't the best candidate, and second is that Trump is a man a lot of people can relate to. They don't see him as a politician. Democrats really should let this "Trump won thanks to Russia" thing go, there isn't a decend piece of evidence for that. All the Muller reports did show, was that Trump possible didn't cooperate with the investigation. On the other side, would you if people have been spreading lies for years about you?

It's the same now with this phonecall. I read the transcript just now. Yes he asked to investigate a possible cover up, how is that wrong? Nowhere does it show him pressuring anyone, or doing anything illegal. There currently is more evidence Bidden his son did anything wrong, than Trump doing something wrong.

The Democrats should really let their grudge go, and focus on fixing some of the real issues in the US.

Yes, Trump has an onorthodox style, but in the end, he gets things done. Plenty of new jobs, a great economy, progress with North Korea, gives his wage away to charity... So instead of just calling him names such as racist or insane, do some research and form a neutral opinion. Just remember that Trump said he wants to make America great again, he never said he wanted to help Europe or the rest of the world better.

 

[Xzi]

I'm just glad something finally lit a fire under Pelosi's ass, there are few presidents in the history of the country who have been more worthy of impeachment. While I do think the House Dems dropped the ball in seizing the moment on the Mueller report, this Ukrainian extortion scandal is far more straightforward and much easier for the general public to digest. Not to mention Trump admitted to it, and Barr wasn't able to get out in front of it with a paraphrased "summary."

Do I think a majority of the Senate will vote to convict? No, but that's largely irrelevant. At least one of the two parties in this country needs to be willing to pursue justice. And who knows, maybe they splinter off a few votes in the Senate because more damning stuff is uncovered during the impeachment inquiry. It's gonna be juicy as hell if they release Trump's tax returns as part of the process.

Edit: AHAHAHAHA, apparently the White House accidentally e-mailed their talking points on this issue to House Democrats, including Nancy Pelosi. Their incompetence truly knows no bounds.

Read Trump's phone conversation with Volodymyr Zelensky

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/25/politics/donald-trump-ukraine-transcript-call/index.html

Do note that this transcript was released by the White House and was subject to at-will designations of "classified" information. So even though it already looks bad for Trump, the full thing and the details of the whistleblower complaint could potentially be even worse yet.

 

[IncredulousP]

............

when something peaked piqued my interest

I'm sorry, I tried resisting but it was really bugging me.

 

[billapong]

The entire "Trump used aid as a bargaining chip" is speculation, but whatever. At the least the Democrats have finally started the process they've been saying they're going to start for some years now.

The thing is, if anyone realizes how impeachment works, that it's probably going to end up nowhere. Only two presidents in our history have been impeached and Clinton didn't even lose his office. Even if Trump loses his office, which is highly doubtful, Pence will take over. So in the end the current Republican administration will still be in power.

I'm not too worried about impeachment based on the sole speculation of a single snitch. The White House stated they'd release the conversation that took place. What is more than likely to happen is that, like the conspiracy theory about collusion, is that this likely failed impeachment attempt will strengthen Trump's position and make 2020 even more of a landslide.

 

[Xzi]

The White House stated they'd release the conversation that took place.

They already did, see CallmeBerto's post above. Even based on the White House's own interpretation/edits, Trump is clearly guilty of the "quid," already a crime in itself. No need to prove the "pro quo."

 

[billapong]

They already did, see CallmeBerto's post above. Even based on the White House's own interpretation/edits, Trump is clearly guilty of the "quid," already a crime in itself. No need to prove the "pro quo."

Yes, I just read it. I don't see any sort of link between him trying to use aid as a way to blackmail or otherwise force Ukrainian Mr. Zelensky to investigate Biden. I see how some people could infer that's the case, but that's a stretch and those are the same type of people that require a TL;DR because of a poor attention span or the type of people that need a /s because they're lacking basic comprehension skills.

If Trump would have clearly said that he was going to blackmail or trade aid for Zelensky to look into what is probably illegal and unethical activity by Biden that would be one thing, but that's not what happened. Some people claim that's what it sounds like or that's what it looks like, but not to me. I did pretty well in my college reading courses, scored the best score you could on comprehension on more than one exam and don't need to pull at thin air because I have some blind hatred for someone.

Trump's not my role model, but he's far from incompetent. This transcript has shown me more to him than just what he posts on Twitter. If I were the Biden's I'd be worried, but even if the House does actually impeach Trump then the Senate would have to act. With all this #metoo garbage you'd think that someone who abused a women in the most important building and office in the world would have been held more accountable for his actions, but Clinton was the President so he got away with it.

In the end I think this will work out in the Republican's favor, but at least the Democrats are actually doing something for a change. However, like most Liberal policies or general attempts to address and/or fix a problem it's probably not going to work. That would require some basic building blocks and this impeachment reason is like building your house on sand close to the beach in a place that gets frequent floods and hurricanes.

 

[Hanafuda]

Actually I think this is really about the DNC and Congressional Democrats using the impeachment process as a way of exposing Biden and 'kneecapping' him out of the race. Any effects of firing up the socialist fringe is just icing on the cake. But regardless, I thought this was funny:

 

[billapong]

Actually I think this is really about the DNC and Congressional Democrats using the impeachment process as a way of exposing Biden and 'kneecapping' him out of the race. Any effects of firing up the socialist fringe is just icing on the cake. But regardless, I thought this was funny:

Hatred really does blind people. So much for peace love and tolerance.

 

[Xzi]

Yes, I just read it. I don't see any sort of link between him trying to use aid as a way to blackmail or otherwise force Ukrainian Mr. Zelensky to investigate Biden. I see how some people could infer that's the case, but that's a stretch

Like I said, simply asking a foreign power to investigate a political opponent is illegal, regardless of whether he ALSO tried to withhold aid as an extortion tactic (which would be an additional crime). Not that I give a fuck about what happens to Biden either, but there's no evidence that he or his son are guilty of anything illegal, otherwise Trump wouldn't have to ask a foreign power to dig up dirt on them in the first place.

Actually I think this is really about the DNC and Congressional Democrats using the impeachment process as a way of exposing Biden and 'kneecapping' him out of the race.

That doesn't make any sense, Biden is the preferred candidate of the neoliberal power structure. If anything they might try to use this opportunity to promote him as the "high ground" candidate who was unfairly targeted by Trump's illegal attempts to gather kompromat from a foreign power. He was already falling behind both Warren and Sanders in the polls before this entire scandal, so I don't think it'll work, but still.