‘Transgender’ Could Be Defined Out of Existence Under Trump Administration

[Deleted User]

The problem is that this is how it's listed on official documents. Realistically outside of medical documents (which I suppose is either already covered or just takes a second to clear up), there is zero reason to specify someone's biological gender on official documents. This is the reasoning as to why changing this on a government document (so say, your passport or drivers license) is considered to be permissible (unless the document is in use bc you got in trouble w/ the legal system, in which case, though shit, gotta wait that out).

The problem that this creates is that it gets "rid" of people being violent against people who identify as trans (quotation marks since the violence still exists, it's just no longer considered a crime specificially because they were trans, which would be a hate crime), gets rid of the rights trans people have needed to get in order to not get harassed (and even then in America that's still an issue.) and just gets rid of trans peoples existence in general. Make your "can't commit crimes against trans people if you make sure they don't legally exist" jokes, but realize that this is literally the end goal with this.

It basically prevents people from IDing as trans and having said status recognized by a legal body in cases of say:

• Getting send to jail for comitting a crime (you'd end up being send to the jail which your legal document recognizes, which would mean you get locked up as the sole female in a jail filled with males or vice versa.)
• Having a defense against people starting harassment campaigns or comitting violence against you for being trans and having this recognized as a hate crime.

But that's something that shouldn't require this kind of approach. Medical malpractice should be handled on a case-by-case basis. As well I don't see how this kind of approach would be related to malpractice.

Yeah, and on top of this it also sets a bad precedent. There's a very slippery slope we take if this gets passed, and I really don't like it.

 

[silvershadow]

To be fair, though, unless I'm misreading this, they only want sex to mean 'biological yada yada'. Which honestly I think is fair. The male and female body are wildly different. If a doctor mistakes you for a girl and gives you medicine designed for a girl, it could really mess you up.

This comes from first hand experience, btw. Not trans, just very feminine.

I agree.

But ill add: this law doesnt change the kind of person you are. If it does, then you have other issues that you need to take care of unrelated to the government. (possibly mind/mental issues). The term "mental" doesnt have to mean something negative.

"you cant be soo weakminded that what other people think, makes you change who you are. Fuck them. You are still you, only difference is a few legal government stuff".


I do not feel sympathy for transgender people that want to identify themself to the whole world as transgender. I will feel sympathy though for someone that was born with a "V" but went their whole life calling themself a male. This would be hard for them. I would say they should be allowed to call themselves male still and not have to start calling themselves female. (and ofcourse vice versa)

I understand not everyone will feel the same way though. Opinion is opinion and i hope i didnt offend anyone with the above.

 

[kuwanger]

you'd rather go on directly and force them to be uncomfortable and unhappy by denying any right they could have when it comes to these matters

Well, as we all know the 1st Commandment is to be uncomfortable and unhappy. The 2nd Commandment is to try to make everyone else equally uncomfortable and unhappy.

 

[Taffy]

To be fair, though, unless I'm misreading this, they only want sex to mean 'biological yada yada'. Which honestly I think is fair. The male and female body are wildly different. If a doctor mistakes you for a girl and gives you medicine designed for a girl, it could really mess you up.

This comes from first hand experience, btw. Not trans, just very feminine.

So if you decide to make the switch, you're not actually that gender from a biological/medical stance? Like if you need some kind of medical attention, if you're a girl who became a guy then you can't take guy medicine or bad stuff happens?

Or are you just saying if you're a girl who looks like a boy and a doctor mistakes you for a boy and you get boy medicine things happen?


this concept confuses me ._.

 

[Deleted User]

So if you decide to make the switch, you're not actually that gender from a biological/medical stance? Like if you need some kind of medical attention, if you're a girl who became a guy then you can't take guy medicine or bad stuff happens?


this concept confuses me ._.

Well... Yeah... I mean, if I woke up tomorrow and said f*** it, ima be woman, I would identify as a woman, and that's fine. But that doesn't change the fact that I have a d***.[1] I would still have wildly different hormones and chemicals and etc, then a woman with a 'V'.

Those hormones make all the difference in Medicine, as it's been proven repeatedly that many cures and drugs that have one effect on a guy have different effects on women and vice versa.

I got mistaken for a gal one time and got some over the counter drugs. I was vomiting all night. I later found on the side "Unsutiable for men, may have adverse side effects."

[1]If you have it cut off its a different story, but I won't get into that.

 

[The Catboy]

So if you decide to make the switch, you're not actually that gender from a biological/medical stance? Like if you need some kind of medical attention, if you're a girl who became a guy then you can't take guy medicine or bad stuff happens?

Or are you just saying if you're a girl who looks like a boy and a doctor mistakes you for a boy and you get boy medicine things happen?


this concept confuses me ._.

I'll shoot you a PM because I know this conversation will derail the thread something horrible.

 

[Deleted User]

I'll shoot you a PM because I know this conversation will derail the thread something horrible.

Too late. Already accidentally did it, lol.

 

[Brayton]

AAAAAAAAAAAA! PEOPLE ALREADY THINK I'M A BOY! BIOLOGICALLY YES, BUT STILL!

 

[kevin corms]

But it's still an extreme overreach. This isn't something the government should be involved with, both the medical field side and the definition of the word side. Sex, gender, sexuality, and such shouldn't be defined by the government. This also goes for medical malpractice, that's something that already has it's own thing.

Who should define it then? People can do what they want to themselves, but they cant actually change what they are... Whats next people will identify as cats? Or maybe im tired of being a white male, maybe I can just become a black man now? I think its time we used some common sense.

 

[Exannor]

From what I've read only from the highlights(I haven't read the entire nytimes news article yet), is that this is entirely biologically based and not based on what you think you are.

In my opinion, this topic is being blown out of proportion and this can be an actually good thing for getting the right care. A couple of comments on this post already state that especially with our current status on the laws of healthcare. While I do think there should be an added bit that states whether or not the person has transitioned or not (which would also give away to the doctor or even police officer what sort of hormonal drugs the patient has been taking) on official documents, this is still just a memo so they are only talking about it right now and it might still be in the works or may need to be ironed out a bit more, they might not actually put it into law or not even put it on official documents.

 

[AmandaRose]

People can do what they want to themselves, but they cant actually change what they are.

Hmm so my birth certificate says I am female. My government class me as female. I have all the same rights as any other female. I look like a female. I think like a female I talk life a female dress like a female smell like a female. But no @kevin corms has spoken and according to him I am still male lol.

Oh and for the record Kevin I didn't change who I was I BECAME WHO I ALWAYS WAS.

#WontBeErased

 

[kuwanger]

Who should define it then?

Uh, no one? Again, there's no point in the government needing this information or otherwise defining it. If you go to a hospital and give functionally incorrect information* and it results in you being hurt, then you suffer the consequences.

Whats next people will identify as cats? Or maybe im tired of being a white male, maybe I can just become a black man now? I think its time we used some common sense.

Common sense is you don't ask questions that are irrelevant or try to push round pegs into square holes just to fulfill some bureaucratic obsession. If I want to identify as a cat, well, why the fuck does the government form even have a box for that?

* If a drug reacts to the balance of hormones in the body, then that's what's relevant. If you think your ancestry is from North Africa but it's more from India and that causes adverse side effects in medication, again you suffer the consequences.

Edit: Okay, here's the real problem. It's not that government wants to have forms that have you "say M or F". It's that the whole purpose of "defining" gender is to use as a tool of oppression. "Oh, you wrote 'M' on one form and 'F' on another That's fraud!" There's no functional reason for including it except to oppress those who may answer differently at some time in their life. Can you imagine even the potential of going to jail because you answered some form with inconsistent or inaccurate information about your ethnicity? That's "natural" too yet we've steered very clear of trying to codify that into law (at least in modern times) for good reason--we have a long history of oppression in codified racism. It's the same bullshit that was pulled with the "Defense of Marriage Act". I see no purpose in government attempting to dictate to people what they are or not or how they should live their own lives.

 

[Vorpal Blade]

[Realistically] outside of medical documents [there] is zero reason to specify someone's biological gender on official documents.

[snip]

It basically prevents people from IDing as trans and having said status recognized by a legal body in cases of say:

• Getting send to jail for comitting a crime (you'd end up being send to the jail which your legal document recognizes, which would mean you get locked up as the sole female in a jail filled with males or vice versa.)
• Having a defense against people starting harassment campaigns or comitting violence against you for being trans and having this recognized as a hate crime.

So where exactly is the line drawn here for you? From my understanding, you think it is okay to have biological sex in the privacy of medical documents; but in all public sectors you can inherit any sex-related privilege you want?

Biological sex swapping would open up a realm of abuse in the public sphere. It just seems too convenient to have the law manipulated to your desires — as seen by your examples: Y could be sent to an X prison; and broadening criminality with the institution of “hate” crimes. Two other controversial scenarios are: locker/bath rooms and sports. Both scenarios benefit the most with its respective sex.

There is nothing Orwellian about keeping things practical and uniform. A structured society needs definitive laws to maintain order. What would actually be Orwellian is if it was illegal to identify a different gender.

 

[ShadowOne333]

Whats next people will identify as cats? Or maybe im tired of being a white male, maybe I can just become a black man now? I think its time we used some common sense.

Too late, dude.
Fursonas are already a thing lol
inb4 people want to be identified as furries in their driver's license too.
Oh and vitiligo is a thing as well


But now for the serious stuff, it makes sense from a medical standpoint to specify either one or the other.
If you go for a checkup or require attention, medicines tend to have a lot of side-effects, and they are dependant of sex of the individual.
If you are taking hormones, or made the transition, or whatever, you still need to be treated by the sex you were born as, not the one you transitioned to.

This gets even more dangerous if you are under heavy doses of medicaments or drugs which affect hormones and additional stuff you might require if you just under-went the change.
If medicine has its side-effects by itself, now image the catastrophic results it would have if you are under heavy doses of other stuff which greatly changes how your body works.

Now from a government standpoint...
I don't really care to be honest, it's unnecessary that they make such a change when people of the LGBT community could already be identified as whatever the heck they want.

This only makes sense in a medical standpoint, not a government one.

 

[SG854]

Is this true?

After the media lied about Trump and the anti illegal immigration and child separation, I don’t trust what they say at face value anymore.

You can find video’s of Democrats on camera, like Hillary, Bill Clinton, Obama, Dianne Feinstein (You’ll recognize from the Kavanaugh case) saying that we need to tighten our borders and stop criminals from entering this country. Yet no one called them racist, and people act like Trump was the first one to say it. Then they lie about how Trump is handling this, lie about how kids are treated when separated, and show pictures of illegal immigrant kids taken during the Obama era and blame it on Trump. And the Democratic Party pretends they were always for open borders but video footage says otherwise.

I just don’t trust what the media says at all. Too many times I caught them lying. I’m going to research this transgender thing more to see if there is something missing to the story that they aren’t telling you. If it’s true then i’m against it, if not then it’s another case of media lying.

 

[ShadowOne333]

Is this true?

After the media lied about Trump and the anti illegal immigration and child separation, I don’t trust what they say at face value anymore.

You can find video’s of Democrats on camera, like Hillary, Bill Clinton, Obama, Dianne Feinstein (You’ll recognize from the Kavanaugh case) saying that we need to tighten our borders and stop criminals from entering this country. Yet no one called them racist, and people act like Trump was the first one to say it. Then they lie about how Trump is handling this, lie about how kids are treated when separated, and show pictures of illegal immigrant kids taken during the Obama era and blame it on Trump. And the Democratic Party pretends they were always for open borders but video footage says otherwise.

I just don’t trust what the media says at all. Too many times I caught them lying. I’m going to research this transgender thing more to see if there is something missing to the story that they aren’t telling you. If it’s true then i’m against it, if not then it’s another case of media lying.

How was the illegal immigration and child separation a lie?
Dude, I live at the border, and believe me, it is way too real.

 

[kuwanger]

You can find video’s of Democrats on camera, like Hillary, Bill Clinton, Obama, Dianne Feinstein (You’ll recognize from the Kavanaugh case) saying that we need to tighten our borders and stop criminals from entering this country. Yet no one called them racist, and people act like Trump was the first one to say it.

If you want to talk about this in a separate thread...

 

[Kioku]

So instead of considering that a good solution to "hey, maybe person x is uncomfortable in their own body and feels much happier by being the opposite gender" is "let them identify as to what gender they want to be" (since yknow, that makes them happy, Occams Razor means that this is the easiest solution to the problem) you'd rather go on directly and force them to be uncomfortable and unhappy by denying any right they could have when it comes to these matters or protecting them from close-minded individuals that refuse to recognize them and would commit violent acts against them for wanting to be happy.

The fact that you, yourself are being closed minded about someone else's views is exactly why politics and GBAtemp should never intertwine. These threads always spiral down so damn fast because of attitudes like yours.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Trump is one step away from growing a mustache and having his deluded followers goose steping around the country. What next does he build gas Chambers then have his followers round up every transgender in the land??

Sorry Trump we refuse to and
#WontBeErased

Not gonna lie, I can't wait until this administration is done and over with. It's become the worst meme in US history.

 

[AkikoKumagara]

Because living our lives isn't hard enough already...