Three Wuhan lab researchers were hospitalized in November 2019

[SG854]

What do people do if they think they live in the proximity of a deadly new virus? They move out, spreading it. The Chinese government wanted to contain the spread while working on the problem.

That plan failed

 

[Lacius]

You are right about the cover up

It was weird that for 1 yr the WHO wasn't allowed in the Wuhan labs to investigate anything.

It's also weird that they were ruling out a lab leak as a possibility before they even did an investigation in the lab.


And do you think the CCP will tell the WHO the truth? There has been times when they tried to do an investigation and the ccp would always try to divert attention to something else. Like sending them to museums instead of the lab. Museums that talks about the ccp's success stories.


Also the Who said, after an investigation by Chinese authorities there is no clear evidence of Human to Human transmission of the novel corona virus, back in January of 2020.

https://mobile.twitter.com/who/status/1217043229427761152


In January 1st the Chinese government arrested 8 people for talking about the virus. The government said it was to Crack down on rumors. But the rumors they were being punished for were that the virus existed and that it can infect people.


In January 14 Media that reported the cases in Wuhan were arrested and had their cameras searched for any information about the disease.


Chinese Gov. were clearly trying to cover it up.

I am not convinced there was a coverup, but it is definitely a possibility. Regardless, the virus was likely a natural occurrence.

 

[SG854]

What do people do if they think they live in the proximity of a deadly new virus? They move out, spreading it. The Chinese government wanted to contain the spread while working on the problem. There is elitism and China and Western countries (like Fauci telling the US population that masks do not work so that people do not horde them).

Stopping the spread? While having a Banquet of over 100,000 people, where they all ate from the same dishes, 3 miles from where the virus was confirmed to come from, in January 18 2020. This banquet was held 2 days after 49 cases have been made public. Also days after, since Jan 1st, Chinse Gov. had been shutting people down from spreading *rumors* about a new pneumonia virus.

Good job China

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-...s-over-response-to-viral-outbreak-11579825832

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

Stopping the spread? While having a Banquet of over 100,000 people, where they all ate from the same dishes, 3 miles from where the virus was confirmed to come from, in January 18 2020. This banquet was held 2 days after 49 cases have been made public. Also days after, since Jan 1st, Chinse Gov. had been shutting people down from spreading *rumors* about a new pneumonia virus.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-...s-over-response-to-viral-outbreak-11579825832

I cannot verify the claim about the banquet (100k people eating from the same dishes seems like a new level of cooking mastery), however, in January they did not know for sure how the virus spreads (human to human, airborne) and how deadly it is (turns out not as deadly).
Cancelling the banquet would have made sense if they had found a good excuse (otherwise: panic).

In the end China has done much more to stop the spread within their country (harsh lockdowns) and abroad (vaccines) than any other country in the world.

 

[SG854]

I cannot verify the claim about the banquet (100k people eating from the same dishes seems like a new level of cooking mastery), however, in January they did not know for sure how the virus spreads (human to human, airborne) and how deadly it is (turns out not as deadly).
Cancelling the banquet would have made sense if they had found a good excuse (otherwise: panic).

In the end China has done much more to stop the spread within their country (harsh lockdowns) and abroad (vaccines) than any other country in the world.

It's right there in the WSJ article. More then 10k families. About 100k people. Sharing dishes.

Then they had a New Year celebration on January 21st where many people fell ill.

Nice job again for stopping the spread.


They didn't quarantine the city till January 23 where no one was allowed to leave, but 5 million people had already left. Wuhan airport closed on the same day. Before that if they showed no symptoms they were allowed to leave. Even after scientist have been saying they can still spread it asymptomatic. Only just the Wuhan airport was shut down. But all other airports and flights were still active.

Nice job again at containing the virus


And they continued to arrest people on Jan 29 for speaking out about the corona virus.



Also the numbers China was reporting about the number of infected people, how it was lower then expected, the Wuhan hospitals were well equipped to handle those numbers. So why rush to build new hospitals if the numbers were really what they were citing? China got praise for reacting to the virus so quickly. Why rush to build these hospitals if it wasn't really that bad in China?

 

[SG854]

I cannot verify the claim about the banquet (100k people eating from the same dishes seems like a new level of cooking mastery), however, in January they did not know for sure how the virus spreads (human to human, airborne) and how deadly it is (turns out not as deadly).
Cancelling the banquet would have made sense if they had found a good excuse (otherwise: panic).

In the end China has done much more to stop the spread within their country (harsh lockdowns) and abroad (vaccines) than any other country in the world.

You were saying they were hiding the virus because they didn't want people to panic leave and spread it, but people had already left and people freely had celebrations without any knowledge about the existence of the virus. The plan to hide the virus to not cause panic backfired.

 

[notimp]

None of this is remotely true. There's no evidence the virus was human-created, and there is genetic evidence the virus began in bats.

What we dont have is the entire chain of development. So we dont have the specific mutation where it jumped to humans, so you have the part "originated in an animal probably bats" (because you see the "mutation history" specific to their (or a very similar hosts) bodies in the "code"), and then you have a fully formed version with mutations that was able to jump over to humans. You also have a few maybe intermediates, but it isnt a complete chain of evidence. So what we are missing is either the variant that developed in an intermediary host, or early versions that developed in humans (not in Wuhan, we didnt find them there), for full chain of evidence.

Also, some people are speculating, that part of the mutations found in the Wuhan version, were similar to mutations seen in other viruses in ways that would point to engineering, but there is no clear evidence for that. Just a possibility.

But the possibility is there. What the US now is doing is promoting "we need full openness and access for a commission to look into that" - on part of the health ministry, and the chinese are basically saying "f*ck off" you are trying to spin this into "china poisoned the world, stay put". (Essentially arguing "In the (likely) case we dont find full proof, you are trying to make the world think, its our doing - and make that story stick.")

Usually, even if we take the theory, that it was lab created in China, chinese government would have destroyed any chain of evidence, if there ever was any regardless of intentional spread (probably not - no one is really suggesting intentional spread, even in the lab theories - despite our good friends the conspiracy prone ), they would have destroyed it by now - because, well its a public relations nightmare, and security services would have to, really...

Which makes the public insisting of the US health department and US friendly commentators in my country so "odd". Because no one has actual interest in "full transparancy" here - in case there was a lab component. (You dont need that information to prevent future cases, f.e. - its just a 'nice to have', and if there was an accident, the chinese government probably already has that information). Everyone - even the US would have to acknowledge that, so why now there is this naive "we need full clarification, and access for scientific research and..." argument as part of the public relations game thrown out by US officials, is at least curious.

Also we know all of that - for months. I made a posting in here - about there being gaps in the genome development chain more than half a year ago, I think, when DW (the german foreign news outlet, partly state financed) interviewed a research scientist looking into this matter, who said about as much.

And now the "anecdotal story" of "some scientists became sick around that date", is produced as a gapfiller for the theory. But thats not evidence, thats "human interest". Thats story creation, more so than "we've found something". Might be a true story - or not. Chances are, that we'll never find out.

But for some reason, the US government is now publically arguing, that we ought to.

Thats more or less the story, as I understand it.

(There also are stories about the original reporting maybe not having been "up to snuff" - so when press first reported about the definite bat origin of the virus, they maybe having relied too much on a public version the chinese government was producing. But then its _very_ hard to find anything else, especially in China (or the WHO.. (There are now more critical voices in the WHO as well, but only after the US stepped forward, it seems... ).. ) And no, WHO isnt bad people, they have to act submissively by design (to get access to countries, to be able to operate there), and yes, they are very much still needed (as a standing communication and action network), so whatever problems you have with them, you better tackle them through internal reform.)

 

[BitMasterPlus]

Don't let the Chinese Communist Party see this thread, lest you want some Chinese assassins to visit you at night.

 

[Julie_Pilgrim]

As for me being vaccinated I'm actually trans-vax. I didn't get the COVID-19 vaccination, but I identify that I did. Please respect my pronouns!

 

[1B51004]

im pretty sure not many people are surprised by this.

 

[Deleted member 559230]

but how american intelligence access chinese hospital records?
didn't Chinese media said same thing about USA claiming that during pre-pandemic era 2019-2020, there were 10s of thousands of american died at "mysterious flu" with pneumia?

The Chinese media for a certain amount of time was telling their citizens that the US Army brought COVID-19 into Wuhan and that the USA was responsible for the outbreak. I'm not sure if they've kept that same narrative up to today as I haven't read anything about it since they originally aired the nonsense in China around the start of the pandemic.

 

[WG481]

To sum up everything

COVID is a virus that exists
People need to get the vaccine against it (I don't care what your argument is. Unless it's an allergy or some other thing specified by your legal medical records, it's disproven)
Nobody knows where it came from

and I really need a burrito.

 

[Valwinz]

Is clear now that we have seen the Fauci emails that the virus really did came from a lab, that Trump was right, and that China should pay to every nation it affected

 

[Lacius]

Is clear now that we have seen the Fauci emails that the virus really did came from a lab, that Trump was right, and that China should pay to every nation it affected

1. The emails don't do anything to suggest that COVID-19 was lab-created.
2. The pandemic may have started with the lab after it isolated a naturally occurring virus. In other words, starting with a lab leak doesn't necessarily mean it was created in a lab. It's also possible COVID-19 didn't start in a lab. You don't know where it started, neither do I, and neither does Fauci. The genetic evidence suggests it was a naturally occurring virus that indirectly made its way from bats to humans.
3. The origins of the virus are irrelevant to Trump's utter mishandling of the pandemic, and he deserves no praise regardless of what we discover about the virus' origins.

 

[WG481]

Is clear now that we have seen the Fauci emails that the virus really did came from a lab, that Trump was right, and that China should pay to every nation it affected

I have yet to see a day where Trump is right.
From a completely objective view, Biden has done infinitely more than Trump has to prevent COVID from spreading. Trump deserves no praise, as he didn't help in that area.

 

[notimp]

What we dont have is the entire chain of development. So we dont have the specific mutation where it jumped to humans, so you have the part "originated in an animal probably bats" (because you see the "mutation history" specific to their (or a very similar hosts) bodies in the "code"), and then you have a fully formed version with mutations that was able to jump over to humans. You also have a few maybe intermediates, but it isnt a complete chain of evidence. So what we are missing is either the variant that developed in an intermediary host, or early versions that developed in humans (not in Wuhan, we didnt find them there), for full chain of evidence.

Also, some people are speculating, that part of the mutations found in the Wuhan version, were similar to mutations seen in other viruses in ways that would point to engineering, but there is no clear evidence for that. Just a possibility.

But the possibility is there. What the US now is doing is promoting "we need full openness and access for a commission to look into that" - on part of the health ministry, and the chinese are basically saying "f*ck off" you are trying to spin this into "china poisoned the world, stay put". (Essentially arguing "In the (likely) case we dont find full proof, you are trying to make the world think, its our doing - and make that story stick.")

Usually, even if we take the theory, that it was lab created in China, chinese government would have destroyed any chain of evidence, if there ever was any regardless of intentional spread (probably not - no one is really suggesting intentional spread, even in the lab theories - despite our good friends the conspiracy prone ), they would have destroyed it by now - because, well its a public relations nightmare, and security services would have to, really...

Which makes the public insisting of the US health department and US friendly commentators in my country so "odd". Because no one has actual interest in "full transparancy" here - in case there was a lab component. (You dont need that information to prevent future cases, f.e. - its just a 'nice to have', and if there was an accident, the chinese government probably already has that information). Everyone - even the US would have to acknowledge that, so why now there is this naive "we need full clarification, and access for scientific research and..." argument as part of the public relations game thrown out by US officials, is at least curious.

Also we know all of that - for months. I made a posting in here - about there being gaps in the genome development chain more than half a year ago, I think, when DW (the german foreign news outlet, partly state financed) interviewed a research scientist looking into this matter, who said about as much.

And now the "anecdotal story" of "some scientists became sick around that date", is produced as a gapfiller for the theory. But thats not evidence, thats "human interest". Thats story creation, more so than "we've found something". Might be a true story - or not. Chances are, that we'll never find out.

But for some reason, the US government is now publically arguing, that we ought to.

Thats more or less the story, as I understand it.

(There also are stories about the original reporting maybe not having been "up to snuff" - so when press first reported about the definite bat origin of the virus, they maybe having relied too much on a public version the chinese government was producing. But then its _very_ hard to find anything else, especially in China (or the WHO.. (There are now more critical voices in the WHO as well, but only after the US stepped forward, it seems... ).. ) And no, WHO isnt bad people, they have to act submissively by design (to get access to countries, to be able to operate there), and yes, they are very much still needed (as a standing communication and action network), so whatever problems you have with them, you better tackle them through internal reform.)

Here are some statements in their original quote form:


Havent seen the "conclusion" of the video yet (probably pro US.. ), but just so you get some of the material that this discussion is based on.

edit: (On the "You cant control a coronavirus" aspect - ehm, this guy needs to read more conspiracy theories.. China just raised their max child quota to three... ) Not saying anything here - just pointing out a pretty obvious logic flaw. And no - I'm not explaining that one. )

edit2: Uhhh, they end on Facebook changing their policy on banning people for Covid related opinions and on actual news censorship that resulted because of it. How subversive...

 

[Deleted member 559230]

I have yet to see a day where Trump is right.
From a completely objective view, Biden has done infinitely more than Trump has to prevent COVID from spreading. Trump deserves no praise, as he didn't help in that area.

Wrong. Trump was in office when the virus hit and the first thing he did was close the borders, form a CDC task force, issued social distancing and mask policies and removed restrictions to speed up development of a vaccine.

While Trump was doing this the Liberal left was calling him a racist for acting the way he did and telling us we wouldn't see a vaccine for 2 or more years.

Trump's actions saved millions of lives, but yeah, he's racist for closing the borders.

The entire reason Biden has a vaccine to distribute is because of Trump's actions.

Last thing, right before Trump lost the 2020 election his administration was acting on a plan to vaccinate the population with the vaccines he helped fast track and that "plan" is what Biden used when he took office.

Oh, but, like, Orange Man Bad, bahhhhhhh, bahhhhhhh, bahhhhhh (sheep)

 

[Lacius]

Wrong. Trump was in office when the virus hit and the first thing he did was close the borders, form a CDC task force, issued social distancing and mask policies and removed restrictions to speed up development of a vaccine.

While Trump was doing this the Liberal left was calling him a racist for acting the way he did and telling us we wouldn't see a vaccine for 2 or more years.

Trump's actions saved millions of lives, but yeah, he's racist for closing the borders.

The entire reason Biden has a vaccine to distribute is because of Trump's actions.

Last thing, right before Trump lost the 2020 election his administration was acting on a plan to vaccinate the population with the vaccines he helped fast track and that "plan" is what Biden used when he took office.

Oh, but, like, Orange Man Bad, bahhhhhhh, bahhhhhhh, bahhhhhh (sheep)

The former president effectively dismantled the pandemic response team before COVID-19 hit, he downplayed the pandemic, he chastised mask wearing, he lied about the virus, he held super spreader events, he had no vaccine distribution plan, and he downplayed the need for people to be vaccinated. Hundreds of thousands of people are dead because of the disastrous pandemic response from the former administration.

If you look in the 2020 election thread, you can find more specific bullet pointed lists from me regarding the former administration's COVID-19 failings. It is no surprise he lost that election.

 

[WG481]

Wrong. Trump was in office when the virus hit and the first thing he did was close the borders, form a CDC task force, issued social distancing and mask policies and removed restrictions to speed up development of a vaccine.

While Trump was doing this the Liberal left was calling him a racist for acting the way he did and telling us we wouldn't see a vaccine for 2 or more years.

Trump's actions saved millions of lives, but yeah, he's racist for closing the borders.

The entire reason Biden has a vaccine to distribute is because of Trump's actions.

Last thing, right before Trump lost the 2020 election his administration was acting on a plan to vaccinate the population with the vaccines he helped fast track and that "plan" is what Biden used when he took office.

Oh, but, like, Orange Man Bad, bahhhhhhh, bahhhhhhh, bahhhhhh (sheep)

H*ll yeah we were calling him a racist. But that's not because of the border.

If Trump really wanted to be effective, he would've pulled a New Zealand and told everyone (I'm paraphrasing of course): "Y'all get in yo houses and don't come out for two weeks. We'll pay your salary too."

Meanwhile Biden, who is barely in his first year, has signed tons of COVID bills, undoing Trump's actions and actually making it an easier place to live.

Wanna know how I know? D.C. just had its mask mandate removed because of lesser COVID Risk. Wanna know an extreme risk zone during Trumperica? D.C.

Where I live, cases have only gone down due to Governor mandates and, guess who, Joe f**king Biden.

Do you really want to live in a place where you have to wear a mask just to say "g'day neighbor"?

Biden formulated his own plan. I know that because he presented it across the country to tell people that he would decrease COVID risks, and he has.

Long story short:

- Get your vaccine. I don't care* if you "identify as having it." That's not something you can identify without legal proof. Seriously. Being gay doesn't endanger the lives of others, but not getting vaccinated does.
- COVID isn't the Kung Flu or other racist jokes. Read about why the Spanish Flu is called the Spanish Flu and you'll see something new.
- A fourteen year old just presented more valid arguments than brain cells in your head.
- Wear a mask. The anxiety you suffer is little pain for saving the lives of people.
- I will dispute any statement.

*I literally have hit negative caring. Someone said it wasn't possible to care any less, but I just did.

 

[Deleted member 559230]

H*ll yeah we were calling him a racist. But that's not because of the border.

If Trump really wanted to be effective, he would've pulled a New Zealand and told everyone (I'm paraphrasing of course): "Y'all get in yo houses and don't come out for two weeks. We'll pay your salary too."

Meanwhile Biden, who is barely in his first year, has signed tons of COVID bills, undoing Trump's actions and actually making it an easier place to live.

Wanna know how I know? D.C. just had its mask mandate removed because of lesser COVID Risk. Wanna know an extreme risk zone during Trumperica? D.C.

Where I live, cases have only gone down due to Governor mandates and, guess who, Joe f**king Biden.

Do you really want to live in a place where you have to wear a mask just to say "g'day neighbor"?

Biden formulated his own plan. I know that because he presented it across the country to tell people that he would decrease COVID risks, and he has.

Long story short:

- Get your vaccine. I don't care* if you "identify as having it." That's not something you can identify without legal proof. Seriously. Being gay doesn't endanger the lives of others, but not getting vaccinated does.
- COVID isn't the Kung Flu or other racist jokes. Read about why the Spanish Flu is called the Spanish Flu and you'll see something new.
- A fourteen year old just presented more valid arguments than brain cells in your head.
- Wear a mask. The anxiety you suffer is little pain for saving the lives of people.
- I will dispute any statement.

*I literally have hit negative caring. Someone said it wasn't possible to care any less, but I just did.

Ignoring your long story short Biden has also done a lot to help combat COVID-19. I wasn't trying to diminish Biden's role in all of this, but to accuse Trump of "doing nothing" is unrealistic and is not what happened. By the way he also was labeled "racist" by the Left for specifically closing the borders to combat the influx of people sick with COVID-19. You know who also kept the borders closed? Biden.