San Francisco brands NRA a domestic terrorist organization

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Arecaidian Fox

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Again, accusations without facts to back them up. People like you are the reason Trump is going to win in 2020. I hope you have fun come election night. I'll have my cup ready for them tears (if there is enough room left).
Yes, more facts!
He lies incessantly: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claims-database/
He was never cleared of obstruction: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/spe...ueller-testify-capitol-hill/story?id=64508660
He paid off a porn star with campaign finances (illegally, which someone else went to prison over already): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormy_Daniels–Donald_Trump_scandal
He continues to obstruct lawful investigations into his tenure as Usurper--I mean "President": https://www.cbsnews.com/news/obstru...p-may-have-obstructed-justice-mueller-report/
Lets not forget how deeply in bed with Russia some of his picks for advisors were/are: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Manafort , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Flynn
His company pockets money from taxpayers and other governments while he has refused to divest: https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career/all-the-ways-trump-cashes-in-on-the-u-s-presidency.html/
He forcefully takes funds from military projects without due process (for a "wall" that'll do jack squat, most illegals and materials pass through official ports of entry): https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/04/pen...ry-schools-to-pay-for-trumps-border-wall.html

LOOK AT ALL THE TEARS, THEY'RE POURING OUT! GET THAT CHALICE OF YOURS AND DRINK! DRINK THE FUCKING TEARS!
 

morvoran

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Yes, more facts!

See there? You can have a discussion that contains more than childish insults. I knew you could do it. I'm so proud of you. Pat yourself on the back. But just to point out, this was the first time you used facts as the other times were your opinions.

I can't comment on the lies. Maybe they were more misleading than lies, I can't say without further research.

He can't be guilty of obstruction if there was no crime to obstruct.

He didn't pay off the porn star, his unethical lawyer that went to prison did.

His advisors were guilty, not Trump. If you hired someone, should you be guilty of their crimes they commit behind your back that you weren't aware of?

Trump is using military funds to protect the border as a Commander in Chief is supposed to protect us from being invaded.

Trump signed over his businesses to trusts before taking office. He is not in control of what they do or who they do business with.

Let the CBP workers who actually work at the border tell you just how effective the wall is, not your corrupt Democrat leaders. The same leaders who happened to want an "unnecessary" wall in the past themselves.
 
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Arecaidian Fox

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I can't comment on the lies. Maybe they were more misleading than lies, I can't say without further research.
Lookin' a lot like lies for the most part to me.
He can't be guilty of obstruction if there was no crime to obstruct.
Oh, bullshit. The ONLY reason he's not in jail right now is the (for him) fortunate federal position of not charging a sitting President with a federal crime. He was NOT exonerated from wrongdoing and obstruction.
He didn't pay off the porn star, his unethical lawyer that went to prison did.
With his campaign finances and shreds of evidence to suggest Trump may have directed that.
His advisors were guilty, not Trump.
He picked them, he wanted members who had ties to Russia and who would let him do what he wanted. And when they got in Trump's way, he fired them. Obstruction of a federal investigation, anyone?
Trump is using military funds to protect the border as a Commander in Chief is supposed to protect us from being invaded.
WITHOUT THE DUE PROCESS OF OBTAINING THE FUNDS. And "invaded," really? What kind of tinfoil hat shit are you getting fed? There's less illegal immigration at the border than ever. Most illegals these days come from people overstaying their Visas. Further to that point, claiming a false national emergency to get his way is petulant.
Trump signed over his businesses to trusts before taking office. He is not in control of what they do or who they do business with.
A trust? Funny name to call that, handing it off to his children, who have high-ranking positions not only within the company, but the government now. Trump has effectively done just about nothing to dissuade accusations of a conflict of interest.
Let the CBP workers who actually work at the border tell you just how effective the wall is, not your corrupt Democrat leaders. The same leaders who happened to want an "unnecessary" wall in the past themselves.
Oh my fucking lord, how many times do I have to read that non-starter...? You mean the The Secure Fence Act of 2006? Which was passed in a bi-partisan fashion under a Republican President, under a GOP-controlled House and Senate? At a time when a border fence was actually a better idea over a decade ago? Just shows me you and your Republican friends are over a decade behind everyone else.
 
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VartioArtel

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No, but the laws against murder don't stop people from murdering, do they? Even with the punishment of death, people still kill others. It's a problem of society, not guns.

I'm going to stop here, as I recently had a chat with a friend about just this.

The problem is that we live in an extremely capitalist society. I don't know about other countries, but it's pervasive enough in America that anything and everything's basically capitalism. Presidential candidates are almost down to a capitalistic level, and the more money thrown the higher the odds, it seems.

Why do I mention this?

You mention its a problem of society, and when you break it down, its a problem of mental health. And mental health falls under general health plans. If health costs - including mental - went down, it means that there'd be a higher chance of preventing shootings. But at the same time, in order to do that, you'd have to threaten companies capital - in short, you'd be fighting against capitalism.

It's a vicious cycle, as the NRA lines politicians pockets, the politicians protect the NRA. The insurance companies line the politicians pockets, and the politicians protect them. Because medical costs are so high, people are more likely not to get the mental aide they need to prevent them devolving into killers. Then the killers go and purchase guns. These people with the guns commit murders, which drive more into mentally unhealthy territory, and to feel more comfortable, they buy guns. This means that the three form a triangular relationship, and the key theme of it all is capitalism.

Capitalism is a corruptive force in our country, and by defending companies instead of the individuals, it's created a vicious cycle. Honestly, I agree with SF in this case. Their approach is a wee bit on the extreme, but they are right that the NRA does indirectly promote violence by attempting to intercede in politics by lining pockets.

We can argue for days about Prohibiting guns or not, but I would hope we can all agree the true root of the cause is capitalism. This country was not founded a capitalist one, in fact throughout the original colonies, there weren't all that many big corporations, there wasn't that much sway to be held.

Capitalism itself isn't bad, unless it isn't checked, which is the problem - it isn't - more often than not it buys out any form of competition/threats...
 

morvoran

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He was NOT exonerated from wrongdoing and obstruction.
Mueller and his team could not exonerate Trump because they were collecting evidence to show he was guilty, not that he was innocent. As the report has shown Trump to not be guilty of collusion, you shouldn't keep listening to Nonsense Nancy and NADler. Their Trump derangement syndrome is off the charts.

With his campaign finances and shreds of evidence to suggest Trump may have directed that.
Doesn't matter if Trump wasn't compliant to it. Shreds of evidence, huh? The only evidence is the unethical lawyer that is in prison right now.

He picked them, he wanted members who had ties to Russia and who would let him do what he wanted. And when they got in Trump's way, he fired them. Obstruction of a federal investigation, anyone?
So if you hire somebody to work at McDonald's with you and they rob a bank, you are guilty of robbery as well? SMH. Get real.

WITHOUT THE DUE PROCESS OF OBTAINING THE FUNDS
Hmm, I don't think the Supreme Court agrees with you on this verdict.

And "invaded," really? What kind of tinfoil hat shit are you getting fed? There's less illegal immigration at the border than ever. Most illegals these days come from people overstaying their Visas. Further to that point, claiming a false national emergency to get his way is petulant.
Invaded by illegal aliens who refuse to assimilate into our society and wave their country's flags instead of "Ole Glory". There's less illegal aliens now because of the wall that has been built and because Mexico is finally doing something to stop them. The overstaying Visa crap accounts for half of the illegals and not most. There isn't a full count on the illegals here that crossed the border as the number of illegals here is estimated to be between 20 and 40 million.

A trust? Funny name to call that, handing it off to his children, who have high-ranking positions not only within the company, but the government now. Trump has effectively done just about nothing to dissuade accusations of a conflict of interest.
Doesn't matter who runs the businesses as long as it's not Trump. You can't say he's making profits from his presidency if he's not in charge.

Oh my fucking lord, how many times do I have to read that non-starter...? You mean the The Secure Fence Act of 2006? Which was passed in a bi-partisan fashion under a Republican President, under a GOP-controlled House and Senate? At a time when a border fence was actually a better idea over a decade ago? Just shows me you and your Republican friends are over a decade behind everyone else.
Democrats wanted a wall. Trump comes into office, Democrats don't want a wall. Hmmm, funny how that works.
 
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tinkle

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I can't wait for all you alt-right boys to get locked up for treason once we have a sane leader again <3
 

Arecaidian Fox

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Mueller and his team could not exonerate Trump because they were collecting evidence to show he was guilty, not that he was innocent. As the report has shown Trump to not be guilty of collusion, you shouldn't keep listening to Nonsense Nancy and NADler. Their Trump derangement syndrome is off the charts.
Heh, I can just see you there, plugging your ears saying. "La-la-la, no collusion, not guilty, la-la-la!" Please. Even Mueller himself has point-blank said Trump is not clean in this. It's fucking cut and dry, he's guilty of obstruction at the LEAST.
Doesn't matter if Trump wasn't compliant to it. Shreds of evidence, huh? The only evidence is the unethical lawyer that is in prison right now.
Funny how lots of people around the Usurper, while doing things that directly benefit the Usurper, are guilty of federal crimes and lots and lots of hearsay leads back to that fat orange fuck.
So if you hire somebody to work at McDonald's with you and they rob a bank, you are guilty of robbery as well? SMH. Get real.
Yeah, that's not even close to what I said. Though I guess it's appropriate that you'd compare the government of the United States to a McD's, it's about the amount of respect most modern right-wingers give it now. Gods, I miss the days when Republicans had actual values and morals to stand behind.
Hmm, I don't think the Supreme Court agrees with you on this verdict.
Constitutional separation of powers states that he should not have that ability. Guess Trump really enjoys screwing over both the military and our core values of government. But yeah, just keep saying he's not a corrupt asshat.
Invaded by illegal aliens who refuse to assimilate into our society and wave their country's flags instead of "Ole Glory". There's less illegal aliens now because of the wall that has been built and because Mexico is finally doing something to stop them. The overstaying Visa crap accounts for half of the illegals and not most. There isn't a full count on the illegals here that crossed the border as the number of illegals here is estimated to be between 20 and 40 million.
Immigration has been slowing for a long time, some wall going up did little to impact it overall. It was more a double fence anyway, less a wall. Further, your argument is partially based on flags and national origin? Fuck off. We're a nation of immigrants, my family immigrated here before WWII. Also, the only flags that should be illegal are those of defeated and/or enemy nation states, like the Confederacy or Nazi Germany. You should get locked and tossed for displaying the "stars and bars" and other similar flags outside of an educational setting.
Doesn't matter who runs the businesses as long as it's not Trump. You can't say he's making profits from his presidency if he's not in charge.
The hell I can't. And ANYONE with even a partially objective mindset can see he's profiting off his stint in office. My only conclusion is that you specifically must be an idiot.
Democrats wanted a wall. Trump comes into office, Democrats don't want a wall. Hmmm, funny how that works.
Right, because reality exists in a static bubble and things never change. It was a set of fencing that went into law over a decade ago. Secure border walls and fencing is a fine and great idea, but don't make it a racist agenda out of it and certainly don't STEAL MILITARY FUNDING
 
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Do you guys want to know the truth? The true destruction of this democracy?
Party loyalty and not questioning what you find, or not having your own thoughts.
And Morvoran is a great example of this. He just finds everything he can to support his side, but turns a blind side to everything wrong that side does, and is fully incapable of questioning true motives or reasons to why things happen. And lacks critical thinking skills to reflect on the people he blindly follows. Perfect to be used as a political right wing pawn in a world were people value loyalty over honesty and truth.
 
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Lucifer666

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@morvoran why do you keep making these threads?

@ Mods why is this rubbish content not being filtered out for derailing the main topic of this website?

They're all the same. It's always [insert news about some reform] and then a blatant display of your lack of reading comprehension when you report on it with "look at leftists protecting terrorists and blaming [insert institution that poses an actual threat to our society here] instead, sipping on leftist tears lol". Frankly, each time you do this you show an even deeper lack of analytical thinking by just adapting your formulaic response. Aside from the plethora of giveaways that you are brainwashed into thinking the constitution is the word of God or something, this website really shouldn't endorse threads where the only purpose is to start shit.
 

SG854

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I'm going to stop here, as I recently had a chat with a friend about just this.

The problem is that we live in an extremely capitalist society. I don't know about other countries, but it's pervasive enough in America that anything and everything's basically capitalism. Presidential candidates are almost down to a capitalistic level, and the more money thrown the higher the odds, it seems.

Why do I mention this?

You mention its a problem of society, and when you break it down, its a problem of mental health. And mental health falls under general health plans. If health costs - including mental - went down, it means that there'd be a higher chance of preventing shootings. But at the same time, in order to do that, you'd have to threaten companies capital - in short, you'd be fighting against capitalism.

It's a vicious cycle, as the NRA lines politicians pockets, the politicians protect the NRA. The insurance companies line the politicians pockets, and the politicians protect them. Because medical costs are so high, people are more likely not to get the mental aide they need to prevent them devolving into killers. Then the killers go and purchase guns. These people with the guns commit murders, which drive more into mentally unhealthy territory, and to feel more comfortable, they buy guns. This means that the three form a triangular relationship, and the key theme of it all is capitalism.

Capitalism is a corruptive force in our country, and by defending companies instead of the individuals, it's created a vicious cycle. Honestly, I agree with SF in this case. Their approach is a wee bit on the extreme, but they are right that the NRA does indirectly promote violence by attempting to intercede in politics by lining pockets.

We can argue for days about Prohibiting guns or not, but I would hope we can all agree the true root of the cause is capitalism. This country was not founded a capitalist one, in fact throughout the original colonies, there weren't all that many big corporations, there wasn't that much sway to be held.

Capitalism itself isn't bad, unless it isn't checked, which is the problem - it isn't - more often than not it buys out any form of competition/threats...
Crony Capitalism is what you're talking about.

Capitalism is
An economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.



So lets say you own a farm and grow crops like wheat and corn. Do you believe that you can choose to do whatever with what you grow? Should be able to eat the food you grow? If yes then you are a Capitalist. Do you believe that the extra food left over that you don't eat, that you should be able to have the freedom to sell it and make a profit for yourself. If yes then you are a capitalist.

Or do you believe government should come in and tell you that you can't eat your own food you grow without permission from us, and you can't sell it for your own profit. We are in charge and we own the means of production. We choose what to do with the food you slaved away to grow and not you.


Do you believe that the car you buy with your hard earned money is your property, that others can't claim ownership. Or should others claim ownership to do whatever they want with it, to tell you what you can or can't do with the stuff you bought with your own money.

Lets say you make a video game should you claim ownership, and your creation is your property. Basically Intellectual Property, that you can sell to make a profit. Or should government claim ownership of the games you create? Wouldn't that piss you off someone else claiming ownership of what you create.
 
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morvoran

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Even Mueller himself has point-blank said Trump is not clean in this. It's fucking cut and dry, he's guilty of obstruction at the LEAST.
Did you see Mueller at that Congressional hearing? He had no idea where he was, let alone what was going on with "his" report.

Gods, I miss the days when Republicans had actual values and morals to stand behind.
Yeah,back in the Reagan era before all the RINOs took over.

Constitutional separation of powers states that he should not have that ability.
Ever heard the term "Commander-in-Chief"?

Immigration has been slowing for a long time,
Legal immigration has because they've been sneaking across the border.

@morvoran why do you keep making these threads?
Because this is the "
World News, Current Events & Politics" subsection. What other type of threads should I be posting here?
Oh, and good job of staying on topic by asking why everyone is going off topic and then going on an off topic rant.


The main point a lot of people are missing here is that instead of fixing underlying issues, the SF Board is pointing fingers at the NRA.

When will we, as a nation, start looking within to fix the problems rather than playing the blame game. We need to stop labeling groups as terrorists if they're not going out and beating or killing people themselves, trying old tired solutions that don't work, and get back to doing what works by rebuilding the family, encouraging parents to stay together to teach their kids values, and stop with all the fighting.

The NRA is not the enemy, guns are not the enemy, Trump is not the enemy. we all are our own enemies as we're the ones fighting ourselves. We need lawmakers who use logic instead of emotions when we make policies just as the founding fathers of the US did. Otherwise, we will never Make America Great Again.
 
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Arecaidian Fox

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Did you see Mueller at that Congressional hearing? He had no idea where he was, let alone what was going on with "his" report.
I watched the whole thing. He didn't want to be there, regardless of who was in charge of the hearing. He already made his report. I can appreciate the fact he didn't feel like getting drawn further into this goddamn circus of a Presidency.
Yeah,back in the Reagan era before all the RINOs took over.
Yeah, back when Republicans (especially Regan) would have been would have been considered too liberal for the modern party. Funny how people keep putting that era up on a pedestal.
Ever heard the term "Commander-in-Chief"?
Ever heard of the Constitution of the United States? It's kinda this thing we have that helps determine what laws we have and what a sitting state leader can (and in Trump's case, mostly can't) do. Might want to learn about that one sometime.
Legal immigration has because they've been sneaking across the border.
Immigration across the board has fallen, both legal and illegal.
 

weatMod

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The problem with universal background checks is that they only work if ALL people are ONLY able to buy guns through legal means such as at a gun shop where a background check will be performed. If I go to a back alley and buy a black market gun, the seller won't give a damn if I'm a felon, clinically insane, or what I'm going to use it for. If a criminal wants to get a gun, they're going to get a gun.

The NRA is an "all or nothing" group when it comes to the second amendment as they believe EVERYONE has a right to protect themselves from other people intending to do them harm or a tyrannical government.

It is not the NRA going around shooting people or influencing mass shooters. That is the fault of society. Maybe instead of pointing fingers at the NRA, San Francisco should point at themselves.
unfortunately the NRA is controlled opposition , they really have nothing
 

morvoran

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He already made his report. I can appreciate the fact he didn't feel like getting drawn further into this goddamn circus of a Presidency.
Yeah, ok, he had no idea what was in the report. He had no clue what the findings actually were or any idea what the report was about. Hell, he didn't have any clue who Fusion GPS was, and they started that whole mess. I agree with you that he shouldn't have been drawn further in something he had no involvement in.

Yeah, back when Republicans (especially Regan) would have been would have been considered too liberal for the modern party. Funny how people keep putting that era up on a pedestal.
Umm, this can be debated as either true or false. Reagan stated he didn't leave the democrat party, they left him. Same could be said for a lot of republicans today. They didn't change their views. The democrats just moved the goal post further left. That era was a great time for growth and prosperity in the US. It had its flaws, sure, but it was still a great time. This is part of Trump's Make America Great Again slogan. Also, Trump was a liberal also. He donated a lot of money to the Clintons.

Ever heard of the Constitution of the United States? It's kinda this thing we have that helps determine what laws we have and what a sitting state leader can (and in Trump's case, mostly can't) do. Might want to learn about that one sometime.
I guess the Supreme Court hasn't heard of this "constitution" you speak of either since they gave the OK to use the funds.

Not to mention the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Hey now, @tinkle did nothing to you to deserve that, but I do agree with you. Good point.



Immigration across the board has fallen, both legal and illegal.
Oh, so you do agree the wall has been working along with Trump's policies. That's great. Maybe there's hope for you yet.


Regardless, I don't mind you trying to prove my points further, but let's attempt to get back on topic. I let @Xzi take me way off topic in this thread, and I would like to get back to it.
 
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IncredulousP

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Capitalism is
An economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.
Capitalism is an unsustainable economic system based on extracting as much additional value (see "capital") from a trade beyond what something is actually worth. It is usually done by leveraging unfair rules of trade or finite amount of resources, or utilizing other exploitations available to artificially inflate the value received from the buyer. Instead of paying what the product is worth, the buyer pays this and more, which causes a one-way flow of money to the seller. Money represents ownership of finite resources, and there are only so many resources; if money flows to one side, the other will run out, hence unsustainable. This is without even mentioning that the more money a particular side or group has, the more ability they are given to leverage further sales. Money should flow, like the circle of life, not just pump into one side.
 
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Arecaidian Fox

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Yeah, ok, he had no idea what was in the report. He had no clue what the findings actually were or any idea what the report was about. Hell, he didn't have any clue who Fusion GPS was, and they started that whole mess. I agree with you that he shouldn't have been drawn further in something he had no involvement in.
Go figure, you're misquoting me.
Umm, this can be debated as either true or false. Reagan stated he didn't leave the democrat party, they left him. Same could be said for a lot of republicans today. They didn't change their views. The democrats just moved the goal post further left. That era was a great time for growth and prosperity in the US. It had its flaws, sure, but it was still a great time. This is part of Trump's Make America Great Again slogan.
Riiiight, Trump riding on Regan's coattails is a surefire guarantee he's competent, despite every indication :D ! Amazing how much a shiny slogan tricks so many people.
I guess the Supreme Court hasn't heard of this "constitution" you speak of either since they gave the OK to use the funds.
Afterwards. Doesn't change the fact he violated the Constitution to start.
Oh, so you do agree the wall has been working along with Trump's policies. That's great. Maybe there's hope for you yet.
Again, misquote.
Regardless, I don't mind you trying to prove my points further, but let's attempt to get back on topic. I let @Xzi take me way off topic in this thread, and I would like to get back to it.
And for a third time, you're using my quotes incorrectly. Have fun.
 
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