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San Francisco brands NRA a domestic terrorist organization

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chrisrlink

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More speculation. Can you prove they are not responsible? I would speculate that no republican has ever said they are responsible for 100% of the crime.
Nobody is holding them as scapegoats for the larger problem, but crime statistics show that black men are responsible for over 50% of the murders in the US. Those are not my personal "hateful sentiments", but facts shown through data collection. Not all of them are gun related violence either, but mass shootings in the black communities are usually listed as "gang violence".
This way, Democrats can go against gun violence/mass shootings without seeming like they're outright racists attacking the black communities. Dems need their votes to stay in power.

And? You not reading or misunderstanding what I wrote is enough to brainwash you to thinking I implied all sources are "cable news". Wake up.

Wrong, more speculation. Come on, "man?", at least try to use a little logic in your replies. how would that take an illegal seller off the streets?
Why don't we regulate knives like vehicles as well. My fists have been known as "lethal weapons", too. Should I register them also?

You don't know what anybody is capable of. I already used the "dark, noisy night club" scenario as a possible example of a large group of people being killed by knives.

i could easily prove look at thos mass shooters the majority were white men and except for a few had racist manafesto's at least 1 was making explosives so my precieved notion is alot of trouble will happen in the future unless a crackdown on the alt right occurs it has no place in our society justl ike islamic extremeism
 

Xzi

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More speculation. Can you prove they are not responsible?
Ummm, yeah I can. Based on pictures of every recent mass shooter in Ohio and Texas. This issue affects every racial group and every state in the US.

Wrong, more speculation. Come on, "man?", at least try to use a little logic in your replies. how would that take an illegal seller off the streets?
Why don't we regulate knives like vehicles as well. My fists have been known as "lethal weapons", too. Should I register them also?

You don't know what anybody is capable of. I already used the "dark, noisy night club" scenario as a possible example of a large group of people being killed by knives.
There's really no point in continuing this conversation, we aren't going to change each other's minds. You think the status quo of a mass shooting every couple days is perfectly fine. I'm content knowing that the majority of the nation has more common sense than that. Trump and McConnell won't be around to prevent the common sense gun legislation that people are demanding for much longer.
 
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morvoran

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i could easily prove look at thos mass shooters the majority were white men and except for a few had racist manafesto's at least 1 was making explosives so my precieved notion is alot of trouble will happen in the future unless a crackdown on the alt right occurs it has no place in our society justl ike islamic extremeism
I'm not sure what you're spewing on about as it is hard to make out. Try reading it back to yourself and see.

The mass shooters in Ohio and Texas mean we need a crackdown on the alt-right, hmm? You mean all 3? Wow, watch out folks! You step out of your house just to check your mail, and you're guaranteed to be a victim of a mass shooting by a whitey!!!! Geez, fearmonger much?

Maybe look at this photo that shows every mass shooter so far this year (when the photo was created). Count how many whites vs POC's. Yep, sure be a lot of white folk there. Oh, "wait" you say? Most of those non-white mass shooters were actually "gang related violence" shooters and don't count? Bull:shit: Give me a break!!!! The NRA and the alt-right are not domestic terrorist organizations.

PHOTOS-Every-US-Mass-Shooter-in-2019-Who-Shot-Four.jpg


Ummm, yeah I can. Based on pictures of every recent mass shooter in Ohio and Texas. This issue affects every racial group and every state in the US.
How do you know they weren't black based on the pictures? They could just have very light skin. Hmm, seems kinda racist and intolerant to me.

There's really no point in continuing this conversation, we aren't going to change each other's minds.
I don't know what I've seen more this year; "Trumps a racist" or you saying "we aren't going to change each other's minds."
I don't want to change your mind. I want you to suffer so next year after Trump wins, I can collect those leftist tears.

You think the status quo of a mass shooting every couple days is perfectly fine. I'm content knowing that the majority of the nation has more common sense than that. Trump and McConnell won't be around to prevent the common sense gun legislation that people are demanding for much longer.
I don't think one mass shooting is fine, but I also don't think lying to the American people that stricter gun laws are going to stop all mass shootings or gun violence, either. It would be better to focus our tax dollars and efforts on policies that will actually make a difference.
 

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.... Also in countries with tight gun control. Such as here. They just don't have so many opportunities to spray paint the local store with a semi-auto. Or the local food fest. So they don't. Isn't that a nice thing? Some crazy dude faked a kick at me while drove through town on a bicycle. No gun access means that's what he can spend his days doing. No guns no cry. I don't get why people don't get that. Is it because they don't want to?


Hold on. What you're saying is that public access to firearms makes for an epidemic of gun crime. I disagree, strongly. There was a time when there was no background check at all when buying a gun. Any store could sell guns the same as they sold lawn mowers or brooms. There were no age limits on who could buy a gun. You could even mail order guns, even Thompson sub-machineguns, from Sears and Roebuck and they shipped to your home. And yet there wasn't a gun crime problem in the USA at all, nothing to compare to the present day, at least not until the US Government passed prohibition of alcohol and gave organized crime a reason to exist on a large scale. And even then (much as now) the violence was contained to those in the contraband trade, i.e. gangs.

Moving ahead of those days, in the 1980's when I went to high school it was normal for boys to go hunting before school, then come to school with their rifles and shotguns still in the gun rack of their pickup truck's back window. Dozens of vehicles in the parking lot, with rifles in plain view. And yet no school shootings occurred. No WalMarts were shot up. And no one was driving around with an illegally made and sold AR-15 killing people.

The availability of guns in the United States has been a constant throughout its history. 100 years ago, there were semi-auto and even full-auto rifles available to the public that could hold high-capacity drum magazines, and there was effectively no regulation or legal limits with respect to who could buy them who could sell them. But we didn't have crazed mass shooters. After organized crime got into the criminal liquor business, though, we started passing gun control laws in 1934 and we keep making those laws more restrictive with each incremental passage of a new "package", and wtf good has it done?? Would universal background checks have stopped any of the recent mass shootings that got media attention?? NOPE.

Anyway, at least where the 'mass shooting' phenomenon is concerned, it's not because people have access to guns. We've always had that here.
 
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Hold on. What you're saying is that public access to firearms makes for an epidemic of gun crime. I disagree, strongly.

Anyway, at least where the 'mass shooting' phenomenon is concerned, it's not because people have access to guns. We've always had that here.
Do you honestly see no correlation at all between number of guns and shootings? Whatever is someone's stance on this, probability increases with every gun. Just like your chances to win the local tombola lottery for every ticket you buy.

Whether or not the general population has changed to such a degree I can't tell. But from what I read about US, society has changed for the harder. Larger income gaps, inequality, trust etc. Could that be reasons? But which should one tackle first?
 
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Rolf12

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Wrong. They were invented to improve on the sharpened stick, spear, bow and arrow, etc to make hunting easier just as with most technology is created to make life easier.
Edit: unless you're a vegan, then I could see where you're coming from. They were meant for potential violence against food (or animals as you might call them).

So we at least agree on that. Some common ground is needed for our mutual understanding. Which I actually would like. I'm too old for trying to "win" arguments.
But whatever they were invented for has no bearing on today's use. Morphine was meant to, among others, relieve pain. As well as the oxycontine patch. Which I hear are not exactly being used as the should either. Should we not limit the prescription of such a thing?

For us to continue this discussion I would in all well-meaning recommend everybody too cool their jets and attack less. Its spinning out of hand like many other discussions here.
 
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Hanafuda

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Do you honestly see no correlation at all between number of guns and shootings? Whatever is someone's stance on this, probability increases with every gun. Just like your chances to win the local tombola lottery for every ticket you buy.

Whether or not the general population has changed to such a degree I can't tell. But from what I read about US, society has changed for the harder. Larger income gaps, inequality, trust etc. Could that be reasons? But which should one tackle first?


I'm saying the "mass shooting" phenomenon is not driven by the number of guns owned by civilians. There are obviously other factors motivating certain people to snap and go into a public place and just start killing at random. It doesn't matter how many guns other people own. They only need one gun to do that.

As for gun violence generally though, the number of guns owned by the civilian populace in the US has steadily increased over the last 50 years, but the number of gun homicides has fallen rather dramatically since the 90's (crack epidemic, early to mid 90's, was the peak).


So yeah, I don't see a direct correlation there. Guns don't do anything by themselves. It's cliche to say that, but it's rather vapid and obtuse to dismiss it.

YacW8wi.jpg



SDT-2013-05-gun-crime-1-2.png
 
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Rolf12

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I'm saying the "mass shooting" phenomenon is not driven by the number of guns owned by civilians. There are obviously other factors motivating certain people to snap and go into a public place and just start killing at random. It doesn't matter how many guns other people own. They only need one gun to do that.

As for gun violence generally though, the number of guns owned by the civilian populace in the US has steadily increased over the last 50 years, but the number of gun homicides has fallen rather dramatically since the 90's (crack epidemic, early to mid 90's, was the peak).


So yeah, I don't see a direct correlation there. Guns don't do anything by themselves. It's cliche to say that, but it's rather vapid and obtuse to dismiss it.

YacW8wi.jpg



SDT-2013-05-gun-crime-1-2.png

Well then I agree with that the correlation is not direct. But then again, there are such masses of weapons already in society. Is it possible to control? Will it affect mass shootings? No guarantees there. But it would be irresponsible not to try.

Homicide statistic is of course interesting and positive. But I suspect mass shootings numbers aren't as positive. I just checked and it seems they go up in terms of frequency and mortality.
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2019-09-01/mass-shooting-data-odessa-midland-increase

Disregarding stance on gun control. How would you try to counter the mass shooting trend? More guns? More police?
 
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Hanafuda

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Disregarding stance on gun control. How would you try to counter the mass shooting trend? More guns? More police?


Less sensational coverage would be a better start than anything else. Don't name them, don't show their photo, don't publish their "manifesto." Don't put them on the cover of Rolling Stone magazine (ok, that was a person who killed & maimed people with a bomb at the Boston marathon, but same problem).

I also think we need some legislation done to exempt the reporting of mental illness from being a HPAA concern for medical professionals. US law already prohibits mentally ill persons from possessing firearms, but this rarely gets reported to the database for background checks.

But no, more guns, more police isn't going to do anything to prevent a psycho from killing people. Mass shootings are their own peculiar phenomenon separate from overall gun violence/homicides, and just based on what I explained above and my experience of having lived in the world before Columbine and this becoming "a thing", the availability of firearms didn't cause it.

Here's some more on the same point I discussed above, i.e. the number of guns is up, the number of homicides is down. I don't see a correlation there, either, by the way. In other words, I don't think there are fewer homicides because there are more guns.
https://mises.org/wire/fbi-us-homicide-rate-51-year-low
 
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Rolf12

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Less sensational coverage would be a better start than anything else. Don't name them, don't show their photo, don't publish their "manifesto." Don't put them on the cover of Rolling Stone magazine (ok, that was a person who killed & maimed people with a bomb at the Boston marathon, but same problem).

I also think we need some legislation done to exempt the reporting of mental illness from being a HPAA concern for medical professionals. US law already prohibits mentally ill persons from possessing firearms, but this rarely gets reported to the database for background checks.

But no, more guns, more police isn't going to do anything to prevent a psycho from killing people. Mass shootings are their own peculiar phenomenon separate from overall gun violence/homicides, and just based on what I explained above and my experience of having lived in the world before Columbine and this becoming "a thing", the availability of firearms didn't cause it.

Here's some more on the same point I discussed above, i.e. the number of guns is up, the number of homicides is down. I don't see a correlation there, either, by the way. In other words, I don't think there are fewer homicides because there are more guns.
https://mises.org/wire/fbi-us-homicide-rate-51-year-low
Okay. Thanks for input.
But regarding mental illnesses. Doesn't that presuppose that most people have health care? Or further, actually visit a healthcare centre? How counter the reason for mental illnesses? Because that would be a productive thing to work for.
 
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You see it a lot more from liberal media. Fox News, for example, only fearmongers about the destruction caused by the left which can be proven with evidence.

I want you to suffer so next year after Trump wins, I can collect those leftist tears.

I'm just going to point this out here, why do you have such radical views against the left. Are they all personal POV or influenced by 3rd party? What motivates you so much that you need to beat "the left". You only see fear mongering more from "liberal media" because there happens to be more "liberal media" by number, which doesn't excuse anyone of fearmongering, which was the point I was addressing. Both sides are just adding to the problem and the idea that "they did it more or worse" is a pretty petty statement. The standard should be they shouldn't be doing it at all. Setting up people to hate other people is just one of the major steps.

You do say you want to fix societal problems right, as you do say its one of the major reasons for the shootings? If you have this kind of mindset, it will never be eliminated.
 
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morvoran

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Are they all personal POV or influenced by 3rd party? What motivates you so much that you need to beat "the left".
I was a leftist until a couple of years ago. I was all for killing unborn children, taking away guns (I still do not own one myself), and using violence to silence others. I have seen the hate, lies, corruption, and destruction to this country caused by the Democrats and their polices.
I finally grew up and realized how these childish ideas influence the likes of antifa and leftist protesters who use violence and hate to push the agenda of the Democrats.
I decided, for myself, maybe we need a more logical solution to our problems as the democrats make promises but do not keep them which only makes things worse.
My city had a republican mayor, and I was all against him and his values. Now with a democratic in charge, our streets have potholes, homeless is becoming more noticable, crime has gone up, etc., and my city is slowing dying.

Now the democrats want this whole country to become Socialist, and I won't stand for that either. I'm not here to "change minds" or advocate for the right, but I take a right leaning stance in my discussions. People need to look at the other side and decide for themselves which is the "RIGHT" side (get it?).

You do say you want to fix societal problems right, as you do say its one of the major reasons for the shootings? If you have this kind of mindset, it will never be eliminated.
Do you think taking a gun away from a mentally unstable person will fix the problem? They'll just find another gun. Maybe, if this person had a stable life, stable friends, and/or stable family they wouldn't want to kill others. Do you think we can stop homelessness by making them move to a place where they can't be seen by the public, or should they be given assistance such as housing and training to help themselves out of poverty? Should we just label the NRA as a terrorist org instead of fixing societal problems?
If you think putting band-aids on problems is going to make them go away instead of stitching up the main issue, our problems will never be eliminated.
 
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Rolf12

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Why this contemptuous tone? I will dry your leftist tears etc etc. So unnecessary. Why?
I believe and hope the republicans will lose. But I would not want to smear it in someone's face. I dislike their style. Not necessary people that vore for them. You are actually contributing to this "hatespeach" that liberal media are accused of here.
 

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Do you think taking a gun away from a mentally unstable person will fix the problem? They'll just find another gun. Maybe, if this person had a stable life, stable friends, and/or stable family they wouldn't want to kill others. Do you think we can stop homelessness by making them move to a place where they can't be seen by the public, or should they be given assistance such as housing and training to help themselves out of poverty? Should we just label the NRA as a terrorist org instead of fixing societal problems?
If you think putting band-aids on problems is going to make them go away instead of stitching up the main issue, our problems will never be eliminated.

I'm not the one saying to ban guns(quite the opposite if you go back to my posts), I'm not the one saying the NRA is a terrorist org(the opposite, but I never stated it in this thread). I'm just pointing out that having hate towards the other side is contributing to the gap of the far left and the far right. Some people take the statements as jokes, till someone takes it seriously. The whole thing involving 8chan was more or less caused by an echo chamber(whether users were messing around or believe that nonsense) which only got created because 4chan started getting more moderated. All it takes is one user to take the echo chamber seriously to cause the events. Vilifying people(on either side) doesn't help for the sanity of some of these killers. They use any means necessary to justify their actions if there were other people who argued for it (be it intentionally or just for fun)
 

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I don't want to change your mind. I want you to suffer so next year after Trump wins, I can collect those leftist tears.
And this is why you and everyone else who supports that orange maggot are the best example of despicable, low-life slime. You don't give a fuck about actual policy, lawmaking or moving forward as a county or society. All you want to do is piss people off. Well, guess what? It worked! People are pissed. Oh, and it takes a fuckload of hypocrisy to say that all you care about is making people infuriated and angry, then bash them for eventually becoming violent when the system that you and others like you have actively kept oppressive to make their lives harder drives them to that point.

And the cherry on top... I'm 100% in favor of gun ownership. People should be able to own a gun, fire it, have fun target shooting, hunting, etc. But the NRA is a corrupt, bloated lobbyist mess that refuses to lift a finger to help in the current crisis, because of MONEY. Guess you indeed can put a price on human life and that price is the NRA's bottom dollar. They deserve to be branded a domestic terrorist organization at this point.
 

morvoran

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I'm not the one saying to ban guns
Never claimed you did, but that's what the democrats want. If you support their policies, that's what is going to happen. Look at Beta O'rourke wanted forced buybacks of "assault" weapons.

I'm just pointing out that having hate towards the other side is contributing to the gap of the far left and the far right.
I agree. Hate, or disagreeing without logical reasoning, is never a good thing. I do not hate the left or the dems. I used to be one and can understand where they're coming from. I feel sorry for them that they are blind to what the policies they support are doing to them (or rather, not doing for them).

I love everybody - "whites, blacks, straight, gays, transgenders, etc" All these groups are just people to me. All one group (humans) that can be united to prosper in life and become successful. I do not believe in identity politics. The left wants them to separate themselves into individual groups, be victims and complain about imaginary walls or enemies on the other side who want them to fail when it is the left that wants to keep them down.

If you truly want to test which side "the left or right" has hate, go to any event where you have both side separated. First, go to the left side with a MAGA hat on and see how you're treated. Next, go to the right side with an "impeach Trump" shirt on. Let's see which side you end up walking away from without being attacked.

Here's an example of what I'm referencing. I dare anyone to show a video where the opposite happens.




The whole thing involving 8chan was more or less caused by an echo chamber(whether users were messing around or believe that nonsense) which only got created because 4chan started getting more moderated.
This is just disassociation of the difference between fact and fiction. If people blame 8chan, 4chan, 2chan, whatever, that is equivalent to blaming video games for violence. If someone can't tell the difference between a game character and real human, the game is not the one needing to be looked at. Just like blaming the NRA and saying they are using dog whistles to make people violent and kill with guns.

They use any means necessary to justify their actions if there were other people who argued for it (be it intentionally or just for fun)
I also agree. This is why the left wing media ignores "gang violence" and go towards the white mass shooters that fit their agenda. They point people's hate in the direction they want it to go rather than where it needs to go.

And this is why you and everyone else who supports that orange maggot are the best example of despicable, low-life slime. You don't give a fuck about actual policy, lawmaking or moving forward as a county or society. All you want to do is piss people off.
Oh, yes, another insightful person who uses insults to make their point rather than using actual substantial facts that make sense. If I piss you off, then you are the one with the problem, not me. I don't have a gun to anybody's head making them read what I say. Try taking some personal responsibility for once in your life. Maybe, instead of attacking Trump supporters and focusing your attention to the right (who does care about moving the country forward in a positive way), you could use some of that effort to look behind you to the left and see the ones stabbing you in the back.

Maybe, instead of listening to your leaders on the left and spewing insults at others, do some actual investigation into Trump yourself and see just how "not racist" he truly is. Look at his accomplishments so far in his time in office then ask yourself how an orange maggot is a despicable, low-life slime that don't "give a fuck" about actual policy, lawmaking or moving forward as a county or society.
 
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Arecaidian Fox

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Oh, yes, another insightful person who uses insults to make their point rather than using actual substantial facts that make sense. If I piss you off, then you are the one with the problem, not me. I don't have a gun to anybody's head making them read what I say. Try taking some personal responsibility for once in your life. Maybe, instead of attacking Trump supporters and focusing your attention to the right (who does care about moving the country forward in a positive way), you could use some of that effort to look behind you to the left and see the ones stabbing you in the back.

Maybe, instead of listening to your leaders on the left and spewing insults at others, do some actual investigation into Trump yourself and see just how "not racist" he truly is. Look at his accomplishments so far in his time in office then ask yourself how an orange maggot is a despicable, low-life slime that don't "give a fuck" about actual policy, lawmaking or moving forward as a county or society.
Wow, I didn't expect this, you actually made me smile. That answer is so fucking transparent and stupid, I legit grinned. No, I'm pretty sure Trump and his supporters are the issue in our country right now. You already said you don't want to change minds or work together, you only want to further Trump's policies for the pure intention of making people mad. You don't get to sit there and say jack shit about "actual substantial facts" when that's your angle and the so-called leader you support pulls his own out of his ass daily. Fuck you, fuck Trump, fuck the spineless Republicans who refuse to take their party back from a racist backed by a foreign hostile power.
 
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morvoran

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No, I'm pretty sure Trump and his supporters are the issue in our country right now. You already said you don't want to change minds or work together, you only want to further Trump's policies for the pure intention of making people mad. You don't get to sit there and say jack shit about "actual substantial facts" when the so-called leader you support pulls his own out of his ass daily. Fuck you, fuck Trump, fuck the spineless Republicans who refuse to take their party back from a racist backed by a foreign hostile power.

Again, accusations without facts to back them up. People like you are the reason Trump is going to win in 2020. I hope you have fun come election night. I'll have my cup ready for them tears (if there is enough room left).
 
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    as soon as the hack was announced
  • S @ salazarcosplay:
    or did you have to find a used one with the lower firm ware that was not updated
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    I got this ps4 at launch and never updated since 9.0
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    You got a good chance of buying a used one and asking the seller how often they used or even ask for a Pic of fw and telling them not to update
  • RedColoredStars @ RedColoredStars:
    Speaking of PLaystation. I see Evilnat put out a beta for PS3 CFW 4.91.2 on the 22nd.
  • K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2:
    Don't really see the point in updating it tbh
    K3Nv2 @ K3Nv2: Don't really see the point in updating it tbh