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This might get me to buy an EV

KingVamp

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Putting aside what is or isn't actually a problem with EVs, if EVs fix these problems, why would someone who can charge at home, especially with solar panels, prefer hydrogen cars?

Of course, I'm fine with anyone of them.
 

EthanB

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Putting aside what is or isn't actually a problem with EVs, if EVs fix these problems, why would someone who can charge at home, especially with solar panels, prefer hydrogen cars?

Of course, I'm fine with anyone of them.
Hydrogen is more environmentally friendly than typical batteries plus batteries have a shelf life which can never be changed as it's part of the natural degradation process.
 

mrdude

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Putting aside what is or isn't actually a problem with EVs, if EVs fix these problems, why would someone who can charge at home, especially with solar panels, prefer hydrogen cars?

Of course, I'm fine with anyone of them.
Firstly there's the range. A typical EV battery degrades over time and so the range the car can drive drops after as little as a year or two. Now say you have a range of 130 miles, than means you can travel 65 miles one way, but will struggle to drive the 65 miles home again without suffering from range anxiety. Then there's the winter, it's 5 pm and you're stuck in an hours traffic jam on a bridge, it's snowing so you have the heater on, you're also carrying two passengers so the added weight to carry means your battery range has dropped even more due to basic physics. There's the price of insurance, some EV's are costing over £5K and some insurers have now stopped insuring them. There's repair bills as well, you can't just take yr EV to a local garage and they can fix it - nope, you need to go to the dealers and get the car transported so even more expense. There's the time to charge, say you travel 100 miles and you want to drive home the same day - now you need to add an extra 2/3 hours onto your day to use a fast charger (which further degrades the battery). These are just a few reasons, but you get the picture. There's lots of bad points about EV's. Also if you did have solar at home, you'd be better using the energy you created to sell back to the grid or use for running your home.
 

Ryccardo

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We got a free* medium-speed charger in each garage of our 6-apartment building so... I'll pass, ~11 kg of CNG on the Up go farther (~330 km, or 280 if my mom is driving) than the electric model (260 km and that's the official theoretical figure), costs significantly less (and this is far from a cheap car for its class), and fills in less than 5 minutes without wear

* won't explain this for fun and boredom, think like an American right-winger for the direct meaning and like an American bank for the tiny print

So, with regards to the original topic... obviously no price has been mentioned :D :D
 

mrdude

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NOT SO GREEN IF PROCESS TO OBTAIN HYDROGEN is through electricity generated from coal, oil or nuclear plant.
Where do you think the energy comes from to make and power battery vehicles? How much energy do you think would be required to charge the 300 million vehicles in the USA (never mind some states such as california already suffer from power outages without all the EV's being added into the mix)

I tried rubbing two bits of grass together but was unable to generate enough heat to melt iron ore or obtain hydrogen - oh well.

As for nuclear power plants - these are the cleanest of all things that create clean energy as are hydro power stations.

Solar panels + wind turbines etc - do you really think they are clean to mine and transport the raw ingredients to make them and are made without using any energy? Also they don't have a long lifespan, they take up huge amounts of land resources and they can't be recycled.

Lest face it, hydrogen is abundent, clean to burn, easy to make and we have the technology to make cars run from it already. It doesn't need the entire national grid to be updated to use. Anyone that has an ounce of sense and no agenda can see the benefits of hydrogen vehicles over battery vehicles.
 
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leon315

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Where do you think the energy comes from to make and power battery vehicles? How much energy do you think would be required to charge the 300 million vehicles in the USA (never mind some states such as california already suffer from power outages without all the EV's being added into the mix)

I tried rubbing two bits of grass together but was unable to generate enough heat to melt iron ore or obtain hydrogen - oh well.

As for nuclear power plants - these are the cleanest of all things that create clean energy as are hydo power stations.

Solar panels + wind turbines etc - do you really think they are clean to mine and transport the raw ingredients to make them and are made without using any energy? Also they don't have a long lifespan, they take up huge amounts of land resources and they can't be recycled.

Lest face it, hydrogen is abundent, clean to burn, easy to make and we have the technology to make cars run from it already. It doesn't need the entire national grid to be updated to use. Anyone that has an ounce of sense and no agenda can see the benefits of hydrogen vehicles over battey vehicles.
just u have to drive to the other side of town to refuel hydrogen is already enough to scrap the idea of owning a hydrogen car, good luck to you if u are on road and intended to find a fuel station in a less populated area. Beside hydrogen a highly dangerous element, just a single car crash would lead to a chained explosion, i would never put my and family's ass in a 4 wheeled hydrogen bomb.

As for Solar panels and wind turbines, u must consider the entire lifespan of energy produced divide years of service to find out that they create far less Co2 than the other source, without using solar panels and wind turbines how many alternatives do we still have? coal, oil and nuclear, The raw materials for those plants require constant mining, drilling which lead to wider environment destruction also which produce hundreds of time of Co2 than Solar panels and wind turbines do, PER YEAR.

Do you know how long solar panel or wind turbine last? Availage LIFESPAN of a Solar panel's 25-30 years and wind turbine lasts 20 years. It's no-brainer on which one US should invest on, here in Italy we already have 25-30% of electricity comes from GREEN sources, US is certainly left behind with such outdated power grid. Wonder when do amaricans and SLEEPY JOE wake up?
 
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KingVamp

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Lest face it, hydrogen is abundent, clean to burn, easy to make and we have the technology to make cars run from it already. It doesn't need the entire national grid to be updated to use. Anyone that has an ounce of sense and no agenda can see the benefits of hydrogen vehicles over battery vehicles.
The grid needs to be updated anyway. Also, what agenda would clean energy people have to have, to be specifically anti-hydrogen? Lol

Hydrogen is more environmentally friendly than typical batteries plus batteries have a shelf life which can never be changed as it's part of the natural degradation process.
That's a good point, but they could find battery technology that doesn't significantly degrade in a person life time. It also depends on what future materials they use and how recyclable they are, with how much environmental impact they will have.

Beside hydrogen a highly dangerous element, just a single car crash would lead to a chained explosion, i would never put my and family's ass in a 4 wheeled hydrogen bomb.
I never actually thought of this. Batteries might actually be safer in the long run, with the right materials.
 

Smoker1

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Here's a thought: What happens to the Batteries when they are Dead and need to be Replaced??????? Also, when these EVs catch Fire for no reason, all that Smoke and Chemicals getting released into the Air.
 

Ondrashek06

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In 10 - 12 years or so.

https://www.business-standard.com/i...tate-battery-breakthrough-123102300252_1.html

~ 1200km range
~ 10 min charge time
Not a fire risk in a crash

Sounds good. Toyota says mass production starts 2027-28. Im not the early adopter type so maybe after 5 years of cars with these batteries being on the road, we'll be able to say if these claims have been met. So yeah, 10 - 12 years or so from now, I'll consider an EV.

We need a bunch of new nuke plants, pronto. Once those cons of EV's are eliminated I think demand will take off, and getting all the electricity that's gonna require from coal, natural gas, diesel etc would be super stupid.
No mention about the price. It doesn't matter if it charges instantly or if it completely eliminates the need for a driver, as long as you have to put yourself into debt slavery for decades to actually buy such a car, I'm out.
 
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Hanafuda

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No mention about the price. It doesn't matter if it charges instantly or if it completely eliminates the need for a driver, as long as you have to put yourself into debt slavery for decades to actually buy such a car, I'm out.


Good point. I won't finance a car longer than 48 months (wish I didnt have to at all) and I tend to keep them for a while after theyre paid off. My wife is still driving a 2007 we bought in 2009, and until 1 year ago I was driving a 2009 that was bought new. Bought a 2022 to replace it, and plan on keeping it for 10-12 years as well. Anything I can't to buy and keep like that is off my list.
 

mrdude

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Good point. I won't finance a car longer than 48 months (wish I didnt have to at all) and I tend to keep them for a while after theyre paid off. My wife is still driving a 2007 we bought in 2009, and until 1 year ago I was driving a 2009 that was bought new. Bought a 2022 to replace it, and plan on keeping it for 10-12 years as well. Anything I can't to buy and keep like that is off my list.
It's good to see someone with common sense. Also I'd bet that keeping that car for longer is doing more good for the planet than getting a new EV every 2 years or so. If everyone got a car and kept it for 20 years that would probably be a lot better, use less resources and energy to make and you wouldn't have small kids working long hours in mines so that eco zealots can sniff their own farts.

Here's what happens to those old wind turrbines/solar panels that are no longer used (never mind getting the resources to build them).

40 seconds in: A local council meeting in UK about the green loonies an the agenda the government have and are trying to force on people.

 
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Foxi4

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I still wait for a proper andra cheap method for hydrogen. Thats really freaking clean gas to burn
I saw a pretty ingenious hydrogen refuelling station that simply had a roof covered in solar panels. During the day the tanks refilled with hydrogen through electrolysis of water, with the waste product being oxygen. No built-in battery required - all the energy from the panel just gets dumped into water straight away. The problem is that such stations could only operate in areas where cloud coverage isn’t an issue - they’d never be efficient enough for where I live. That being said, for all intents and purposes you could install one on your own property, with as many panels as you like. Right now, for someone like me, a hybrid is much more convenient and reliable. My missus and I don’t have to worry about running out of juice in the middle of a drive, the petrol engine simply kicks in and the battery gets topped up via regenerative braking and whenever we’re just cruising. Most of the area is 20 MPH speed limited anyway, so the electric motor gets as much use if not more than the petrol engine.
 

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