1. GoldenBullet

    GoldenBullet That One Guy
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    nihilistic definitely shouldn't be the word being used. I get what you're saying but if you watch people's playthroughs of the game, they WANT revenge for -snip- which gives engagement for the first half of the game. The second half creates engagement through curiosity and empathy (slowly but surely). I'm not saying you have to like the game, if you didn't enjoy it then fine by me. If people were mad about the ending of the game, then they were definitely engaged in the story (if they played it)
     
    Last edited by GoldenBullet, Jun 28, 2020
  2. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It
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    The game is nihilistic in that everything seems hopeless, people are dying. There is no light at the end of the tunnel, and the games ending feels that way.

    They were engaged with anger. So they were right about that, but its not the good type of anger they felt. It's a type of anger that I don't want a sequal to this game because I didnt like it.

    I feel like they failed on the empathy part with Abby. After the situation she did it makes you not care about what happens to her no matter how they try to make you empathize with her because of story events order feels randomly put together. And the way the try to make you empathize feels contrived forced. Like the message Ellie bad ellie kills animals. Abby good abby saves animals, a contrast to try to make you not like ellie as much and to like abby more, those events feels forced. But also ellie constantly feels bad at who she kills. While Abby being cartoonishly evil doesn't feel guilt for the people she kills, makes you less likely to empathize with her.
     
  3. GoldenBullet

    GoldenBullet That One Guy
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    Everything is hopeless? The game actually gives the opposite by showing that in a world of zombies, people have found ways to settle down and not have to struggle for no reason. One character died and like Tommy and Abbie said, they could have left it and everyone would have been back to their lives, probably pretty peacefully too for a while. In the first game, you the player go to the home base of the fire flies and kill a massive majority of their people. Its a surprise that what was left of the fireflies didn't go back to find Joel and end up destroying the town. In my opinion, Abby's choice was justified. The fact that Joel killed her dad in cold blood and doomed the world to chaos gives the group enough of a reason to be wanting revenge. All of this is before playing the second half of the game. A lot of people like myself do empathize with Abby. We don't like what she did but we understand why she did it. If you don't empathize with a person that had her entire life taken away from her then I don't know what to tell you, the game wasn't meant for you and that is fine, let the people who did empathize with the character enjoy the story. The game is not universally hated like some people think. Early reviewers gave the game high regards. The people hating on the game are just the vocal majority.
     
    Last edited by GoldenBullet, Jun 28, 2020
  4. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It
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    Just like Joel says to Tess in the first game after Tess says we're shitty people Joel, Joel says we are survivors. In this world everybody does shitty things to survive there is no clear black and white good and bad people, just people having to do what they need to survive. One of the tapes in the first game also had immune people fireflies found but failed to come up with a anti fungal solution. There was no garuantee for a cure.

    Abby actions were understandable doesn't mean you have to like her. We grew attach to Ellie and Joel first, so Abby coming in had alot to prove herself. In a world where everyone does shitty things including Abby, she has to make us love her as a Character. Joel and Ellie did that in the first game with the bond they had. Abby actions were too soon, and the plot didn't build up to her to give us time with her before said actions that makes people hate her, so it makes her irredeemable. Imagine having a family, your family is shitty, and the other family trying to kill you is also shitty doing horrible things to survive. Are you really going to feel empathy for them after what they done to your family. Or are you going to feel more empathy to the persons you care about in your life, and hate the other family to the point that they are Irredeemable
     
    Last edited by SG854, Jun 28, 2020
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  5. HylianBran

    HylianBran For your Phantomile...
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    Sometimes I ask myself that same question.
     
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  6. GoldenBullet

    GoldenBullet That One Guy
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    Yes actually, you should feel empathy for people regardless of what they have done. Feeling empathy isn't saying that you forget about the actions of others. Its a show of understanding of the character. Empathy is not forgiving. There are stages of grief and its like everyone is stuck on anger. If you reached the end of the game and you still wanted to kill Abby after her family and friends being killed, losing her home, being tortured for months, and is clearly trying to save Lev;s life, then I guess you are not an empathetic person. Even Pewdiepie who wanted nothing but Abby to suffer, did not want Ellie to kill her. Abby suffered way more than Ellie did and Ellie did everything throughout the game for selfish reasons. You are supposed to feel like you turned into the bad guy at the end. Ellie does not forgive Abby. Ellie saw that she was killing a person that had gone through enough and wasn't even fighting back. I think I know about the tape you're referring to and I'm pretty sure it doesn't explicitly say that they have had other immunes.

    I think a lot of reviewers that disliked the game said after playing, they thought everything was meaningless. And yes, it was meaningless, that was the point.
     
    Last edited by GoldenBullet, Jun 28, 2020
  7. disown

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    Great game, much better than the first one. Sure, there are games with better story, or game play, or whatever, but as a complete package, TLOU2 is extremely competent. Plus, the game is also very accessible, and there are various play styles to tinker with.

    Form your own opinion by playing the game with an open mind. At the very least, it is one of very few games with a story that is actually memorable and worthwhile.
     
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  8. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It
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    I'm sorry about you're daughter,
    Joel, but I have lost people too.

    Everyone I have cared for has
    either died or left me, everyone fucking except you - Ellie

    Ellie has lost people too. And Abby did fight back. The friends of Ellie she killed. That thing she did to Ellie at the end of the game which made her loose the only connection she had with Joel. And considering the fact Joel saved her from death from a Zombie attack, looks like Abby didn't have empathy of her own to forgive Joel. That's why people can't empathize with her, Joel saved her.
     
    Last edited by SG854, Jun 28, 2020
  9. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It
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    @GoldenBullet

    If your only father figure that was therefore you no matter what after you lost so many people was gone how do you expect Ellie to feel. And Ellie never traveled with Abby, she doesn't know who Abby is. All she knows is that she is a person that took that father figure from her. She couldn't have done it initially for selfish reasons. Abby and Ellies stories are separate, so they both don't know what each other went through. It wasn't till later on Ellie learns why Abby came after said character.
     
  10. GoldenBullet

    GoldenBullet That One Guy
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    She did it absolutely for selfish reasons lol. She only uses Tommy as an excuse to have Maria let her go. This is clear when Jesse wants to save Tommy but Ellie wants to go after Abby. The fact that Ellie explicitly kills all of her friends showed her that she took away things from her. Abby tells Ellie herself. Ellie even knows that Abby wants to rejoin the fireflies, a group Ellie was always supportive of.

    Sorry, I actually enjoy seeing your point of view of the game but I gotta go this will be my last point for now
     
  11. Stealphie

    Stealphie GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    This thread is a trainwreck
     
  12. Dartz150

    Dartz150 Yet another Onii-chan
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    Fucking LOL

    I got this as a present and now the person who gave it to me has to repay the damage h has done with free food for the rest of the year, man the game is horrible compared to the first, they try so hard to make you empathize with Abby, which imo is a very dislikeable character in many ways from the beginning to the end.

    And that ending was fucking AWFUL.
     
    Last edited by Dartz150, Jun 28, 2020
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  13. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It
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    Well Ellie killed all of Abbys friends that wanted her father figure dead. Her friends were in it as much as Abby is that took from Ellie, so they were just as much as targets for revenge.

    Maria from the get go knows Ellie, and knows Ellie wants revenge because of how close she was to Joel. Tommy wasn't an excuse from the beginning. She would've gone anyway. Tommy was just a thing thrown in there, like while you are on your way to get revenge bring my dumb ass husband back. She knows she can't stop Ellie, she made that very clear, I would like it if you would not go, repeating herself twice, but I know you too well (paraphrasing).
     
  14. GoldenBullet

    GoldenBullet That One Guy
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    Oh I was just saying that Ellie was lying to herself that she wanted to save Tommy, throughout the game she says "where Abby is, Tommy is". And when they find Tommy, she doesn't even want to go to him
     
  15. morvoran

    morvoran Trumpican
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    I propose we have protests to ban golf clubs in the honor of Joel Miller. May he rest in peace.
     
  16. SkittleDash

    SkittleDash GBANep
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    Threads like these that have arguments with insults being thrown around give me life. It's a nice YouTube substitute.
     
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  17. leon315

    leon315 POWERLIFTER
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    Anyway guys, this game is in developing for 7 goodanm years, i doubt all those sale are able to break even.... :wink:
     
  18. Zyvyn

    Zyvyn GBAtemp Advanced Maniac
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    I am assuming this just just satire but still
     
  19. 64bitmodels

    64bitmodels GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    Come to the nintendo side
    we have games that sell well AND don't disappoint you. even if 2020 is starting off a bit rocky.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    Anyway its nice to hear the sales i guess, but i honestly hope the future PS5 exclusives sell more because judging from what everyone's said about the game in this thread (excluding that one homophobe who thinks being gay is a bad and unnatural thing, seriously why is @Chrisssj2 not banned yet??) it doesnt seem like a very good game.
     
    Last edited by 64bitmodels, Jun 29, 2020
  20. lordofcombo

    lordofcombo Member
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    i really wanna know costellos opinion on this turd.
    I will bet a coke that neil cuckman will lose his position and support for any funding regarding a possible sequel.
    naughty dog will not let him direct another tlou.Probably because the anti neil campaign will destroy any hype surrounding a possible sequel.
     
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