SCEE Sues Graf_Chokolo For...

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

@MEGAMANTROTSKY
I wouldn’t go that far. “Such logic is only worth ignoring or cruelly repudiating.” That statement implies that we are always right. You have good intentions though.

I must not have been clear enough. The "logic" I'm referring to here are the "egocentric" smear tactics that are still actively being used against Hotz and now Chokolo. I'm not implying that we are "always right," but that those who rely on smears to formulate their argument will always be wrong.

 

[Kioku]

If you bought a car with air conditioning and the manufacturer went to your house and removed it, that would be illegal. But in this case it's fine? Do you maybe see the imbalance in that?

I have no way of knowing what your education is and, therefore, can only refer to my own studies in communication law. And according to U.S. law, if you signed an agreement that stipulated that the "air conditioning" you mentioned could, at any time by will of the manufacturer, in fact be removed by the manufacturer, no it wouldn't be illegal. The PS3 hardware does fall into the realm of goods and services, but the firmware does not. You can argue 'til the cows come home, but it's not going to change legality of the matter.

You don't 'sign' a contract upon purchasing your PS3 system, once it's in your hands... It's your to do with as you please... Sony isn't in the wrong with some of their actions, but they aren't exactly clear to go about doing what they do... They took away a feature without giving a legitimate reason, other than 'because we can'...

You gotta wonder what's going on in Sony's corporate world... They are acting very strange, and very hostile... It's almost like they're being run by my little brother.

 

[Raiser]

I admire the guy's guts, but anyone else hear him screaming attention whore?

OK GUYS! You heard it: Being sued by Sony automatically makes you an attention whore.

And people seriously QQ over me telling people like this to shove it.

Only because you're just obviously one of those "Sony-haters".
I couldn't care less which side when the case, nor do I care if homebrew is ever available on the PS3 or not.

Who the hell tries to provoke Sony over the internet like that? The only reason for that is to just try and be a hero.
If all the smirk remarks in this article were taken out, I'd totally think "guy's devoted to his work, I wish him luck", but now his ego is just getting the best of him.

 

[Kioku]

Much like EgoHat, eh?

 

[Sterling]

Only because you're just obviously one of those "Sony-haters".
I couldn't care less which side when the case, nor do I care if homebrew is ever available on the PS3 or not.

Who the hell tries to provoke Sony over the internet like that? The only reason for that is to just try and be a hero.
If all the smirk remarks in this article were taken out, I'd totally think "guy's devoted to his work, I wish him luck", but now his ego is just getting the best of him.

How can you people still think this case is still "just the PS3"? The way this case is set up, it will include precedent for present and future consoles by anyone. You have a hacked Wii, well if Sony wins in, all probability, it will be illegal to even own that Wii. Seriously 'tempers, get your head outta the clouds and smell the daisies.

 

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

I admire the guy's guts, but anyone else hear him screaming attention whore?

OK GUYS! You heard it: Being sued by Sony automatically makes you an attention whore.

And people seriously QQ over me telling people like this to shove it.

Only because you're just obviously one of those "Sony-haters".
I couldn't care less which side when the case, nor do I care if homebrew is ever available on the PS3 or not.

Who the hell tries to provoke Sony over the internet like that? The only reason for that is to just try and be a hero.
If all the smirk remarks in this article were taken out, I'd totally think "guy's devoted to his work, I wish him luck", but now his ego is just getting the best of him.

Chokolo's ego is not central to the incident.

 

[Maedhros]

It's illegal to use pirated games, but this doesn't make people here asking on every new scene-release topic asking where they can find the ROM. =/

 

[Raiser]

Only because you're just obviously one of those "Sony-haters".
I couldn't care less which side when the case, nor do I care if homebrew is ever available on the PS3 or not.

Who the hell tries to provoke Sony over the internet like that? The only reason for that is to just try and be a hero.
If all the smirk remarks in this article were taken out, I'd totally think "guy's devoted to his work, I wish him luck", but now his ego is just getting the best of him.
How can you people still think this case is still "just the PS3"? The way this case is set up, it will include precedent for present and future consoles by anyone. You have a hacked Wii, well if Sony wins in, all probability, it will be illegal to even own that Wii. Seriously 'tempers, get your head outta the clouds and smell the daisies.

I never mentioned this is "just about the PS3".

Here's my take on it-
Companies, to an obvious extent, have every right to protect their products from potential piracy. As we all know, Sony has taken this to a whole new unnecessary level, but the core of their intent is to protect their product(s).
I personally do not care consoles are able to be hacked; if it is, sure I'll go for it! But companies have the right to do something about it.

What Geohot was doing, enabling homebrew on the PS3, that's cool with me!
But it seems that Sony saw it as a door to piracy.

QUOTE(MEGAMANTROTSKY @ Feb 25 2011, 11:37 AM)

Chokolo's ego is not central to the incident.

My referring to his "ego" is only focused towards this article and the guy's personality, not this incident as a whole.

 

[Sterling]

]
I never mentioned this is "just about the PS3".

Here's my take on it-
Companies, to an obvious extent, have every right to protect their products from potential piracy. As we all know, Sony has taken this to a whole new unnecessary level, but the core of their intent is to protect their product(s).
I personally do not care consoles are able to be hacked; if it is, sure I'll go for it! But companies have the right to do something about it.

That's the vibe I get from everyone who doesn't know any better. If you're different, then my apologies.

Companies do have the right to protect their assets. However, the PSN is the only thing that they have a right to prevent you from using. The hardware and everything you do offline is your own business, not Sony's. I don't condone piracy, but I hate cheaters. The online services are no place for hackers.

Why don't you care? Is it because you're trying to be aloof. Trying to be different? It is my right to do what ever I want to my hardware, and that is what this precedent will be about. I enjoy that extra bit of functionality that I get out of an otherwise closed system. I may not have done the actual hacking, but I respect those that did.

 

[Raiser]

That's the vibe I get from everyone who doesn't know any better. If you're different, then my apologies.

Companies do have the right to protect their assets. However, the PSN is the only thing that they have a right to prevent you from using. The hardware and everything you do offline is your own business, not Sony's. I don't condone piracy, but I hate cheaters. The online services are no place for hackers.

Why don't you care? Is it because you're trying to be aloof. Trying to be different? It is my right to do what ever I want to my hardware, and that is what this precedent will be about. I enjoy that extra bit of functionality that I get out of an otherwise closed system. I may not have done the actual hacking, but I respect those that did.

I assure you, I'm well aware that these cases will affect console hacking from here on out.
I'm also in agreement with you that any form of online multi-play should be kept cheat-free.

Buying my games is no big deal. But free games aren't so bad as well. Either way, I'll make one choice or the other, and if the latter isn't available, I'll gladly go ahead and buy them.

 

[twiztidsinz]

I admire the guy's guts, but anyone else hear him screaming attention whore?OK GUYS! You heard it: Being sued by Sony automatically makes you an attention whore.

And people seriously QQ over me telling people like this to shove it.

Only because you're just obviously one of those "Sony-haters".
I couldn't care less which side when the case, nor do I care if homebrew is ever available on the PS3 or not.

Yep, I hate Sony.
So much so that I bought two PS2s, have a Sony discman, Sony Minidisk player, Sony DVD drive, Sony DVD players, Sony laptop and probably something else I'm forgetting. Grrrrr that Sony!

To be honest, I don't particularly care one way or the other about Sony as a whole, however I do think they are VERY much wrong in this matter.

Grats on using "Couldn't care less" correctly (now for the record I DO hate people who say "I could care less", because that means they DO care and when you mention that they typically lash out at you or, incorrectly, say "but that's how the saying goes"), but you obviously have a positive bias towards Sony, otherwise you wouldn't be blindly labeling people 'haters' for offering an opinion you obviously disagree with.


QUOTE(Raiser @ Feb 25 2011, 03:32 PM)

Who the hell tries to provoke Sony over the internet like that? The only reason for that is to just try and be a hero.
If all the smirk remarks in this article were taken out, I'd totally think "guy's devoted to his work, I wish him luck", but now his ego is just getting the best of him.

Someone who won't abide by Sony's Gestapo tactics?
Someone who is being made a target by a media giant?
NAAAW! HE MUST BE ONE OF THEM THAR SOONY HATERS!

 

[Raiser]

Yep, I hate Sony.
So much so that I bought two PS2s, have a Sony discman, Sony Minidisk player, Sony DVD drive, Sony DVD players, Sony laptop and probably something else I'm forgetting. Grrrrr that Sony!

Don't have to like a company to like their products.

To be honest, I don't particularly care one way or the other about Sony as a whole, however I do think they are VERY much wrong in this matter.

Yes, they are taking things extremely far. I don't believe suing people trying to enable homebrew is entirely ethical either.
Which is why I wish geohot luck, that's what he was trying to do. I must say that I'm disappointed at Sony because of their actions throughout this entire affair.

Grats on using "Couldn't care less" correctly (now for the record I DO hate people who say "I could care less", because that means they DO care and when you mention that they typically lash out at you or, incorrectly, say "but that's how the saying goes"), but you obviously have a positive bias towards Sony, otherwise you wouldn't be blindly labeling people 'haters' for offering an opinion you obviously disagree with.

My bad on my improper use of the language.
No, I will confidently say that I do not side with Sony nor with the hackers.
If you're not one of those "go hacking! free games! down with Sony!!"-bandwagoners, I sincerely apologize. I've met so many people like those that it's starting to stick onto me.

OK GUYS! You heard it: Being sued by Sony automatically makes you an attention whore.

I just don't know where this came from.
The reason why I label Graf as an "attention whore" is just his attitude towards this situation. The entire article has "cocky" written all over it.

 

[Giga_Gaia]

If you bought a car with air conditioning and the manufacturer went to your house and removed it, that would be illegal. But in this case it's fine? Do you maybe see the imbalance in that?

I have no way of knowing what your education is and, therefore, can only refer to my own studies in communication law. And according to U.S. law, if you signed an agreement that stipulated that the "air conditioning" you mentioned could, at any time by will of the manufacturer, in fact be removed by the manufacturer, no it wouldn't be illegal. Either way, the comparison is moronic on the face of it. Goods and services are not the same thing as creative works. It's a fine line, but that's the entire crux of this issue. The PS3 hardware does fall into the realm of goods and services, but the firmware does not. You can argue 'til the cows come home, but it's not going to change legality of the matter. At this stage in the game, the courts have to decide how to hash out all this diced ham.

However, there was no agreement signed when you bought the PS3. In fact, the terms of agreements means absolutely nothing and they couldn't even use those in a court of laws, since they are nothing.

Also, if they meant anything, those terms of agreements would be illegal. They force you to click on agree if you want to use the product. In other words, it's not because you agree, it's because they force you to. It's like pulling a gun on your head.

 

[twiztidsinz]

Yep, I hate Sony.
So much so that I bought two PS2s, have a Sony discman, Sony Minidisk player, Sony DVD drive, Sony DVD players, Sony laptop and probably something else I'm forgetting. Grrrrr that Sony!

Don't have to like a company to like their products.

True.. but if I hated a company, I wouldn't be buying their products.

Anyway, this is getting rather off topic, so let's end it with us both agreeing that Sony's gone further than we'd like.

 

[retKHAAAN]

Yep, I hate Sony.
So much so that I bought two PS2s, have a Sony discman, Sony Minidisk player, Sony DVD drive, Sony DVD players, Sony laptop and probably something else I'm forgetting. Grrrrr that Sony!

Don't have to like a company to like their products.

True.. but if I hated a company, I wouldn't be buying their products.

agreed here... i haven't bought BP oil/gasoline in nearly a year... you know how much a pain in the ass that is in my town?

 

[Raiser]

Yep, I hate Sony.
So much so that I bought two PS2s, have a Sony discman, Sony Minidisk player, Sony DVD drive, Sony DVD players, Sony laptop and probably something else I'm forgetting. Grrrrr that Sony!

Don't have to like a company to like their products.

True.. but if I hated a company, I wouldn't be buying their products.

Anyway, this is getting rather off topic, so let's end it with us both agreeing that Sony's gone further than we'd like.

Sure thing.

Although I'm not particularly impressed with Graf's provocations, him winning would definitely be another step at putting Sony in its place.

 

[Rydian]

All of the sudden, this becomes an issue of drama and ego, totally submerging themselves on the individual's personality as the seed of argument.

Yeah, it's debate fallacy called "argumentum ad hominem"... and it's incredibly prevalent in these cases because most people have their information wrong, but don't want to admit it or be corrected so they try to steer discussion away from the facts.

 

[Sephxus]

All of the sudden, this becomes an issue of drama and ego, totally submerging themselves on the individual's personality as the seed of argument.

Yeah, it's debate fallacy called "argumentum ad hominem"... and it's incredibly prevalent in these cases because most people have their information wrong, but don't want to admit it or be corrected so they try to steer discussion away from the facts.

"argumentum ad hominem," well excuse me sir.

I didn't know that term existed.

 

[nl255]

Keep in mind this is Germany, where Life (15 years minimum, average of 23 years) is only a POSSIBLE sentence (i.e. you can be sentenced to less) for NUKING A CITY. Compared to that, what is hacking a console?

 

[Raiser]

Keep in mind this is Germany, where Life (15 years minimum, average of 23 years) is only a POSSIBLE sentence (i.e. you can be sentenced to less) for NUKING A CITY. Compared to that, what is hacking a console?

Oh wow, never knew that. o.0
Thanks for the info.