ROM Hack [REQUEST] Someone interested in making a Translation of "Daigyakuten Saiban"?

[Pottty]

As for you being the project lead: as the only person communicating publicly, you are the face of the team. If you are not in fact the leader, then I apologize and can only ask who is.

No lead, there is only two of us, @nikkuchan as translator and I, so we can decide together.

I keep seeing this idea that a "literal translation" is desirable; I reject that.

The thing is, the literal/direct/faithful translation (for me at least) means that it not contains unnecessary changes. So than, what is an unnecessary change? I'm sure all of us would answer differently to that, but for me changes that are not needed to fully understand the story, for example: Japan->Los Angeles. I know why they changed this, the localized English names would be weird in a Japanese setting. Than again, what's the matter with the names? And this is the part where our opinions will differ. I think names are unnecessary to change, first of all these puns are not adding to the game that much (when I played the games first, I didn't understood most of these puns, but I loved the game the same way), and mainly names are kinda sacred for me. For a long time a really hate when translators change the names of the characters, they don't have any right to do that, and think about it this way: would you, Dowolf, like it if I would call you Sun, just because of your avatar. If we can't change people's names in real life willy nilly, why we can change characters names just like that? Yeah, characters wont argue, but what about the author?

"there's no downside to a literal translation"--it seemed to me a cause of concern.

I never said or meant there are no downsides to a translation. I said, because of the huge timeskip, there is no need to elaborate where Phoenix lives and why he lives there.

 

[Gazelle_Bro]

No lead, there is only two of us, @nikkuchan as translator and I, so we can decide together.

What happened to Juan?

 

[Pottty]

What happened to Juan?

Unfortunately he had to quit because of his collage.

 

[Gazelle_Bro]

Unfortunately he had to quit because of his collage.

That's unfortunate to hear. I wish the best of luck to you and Nikku with the project.

 

[Dowolf]

The thing is, the literal/direct/faithful translation (for me at least) means that it not contains unnecessary changes. So than, what is an unnecessary change? I'm sure all of us would answer differently to that, but for me changes that are not needed to fully understand the story, for example: Japan->Los Angeles. I know why they changed this, the localized English names would be weird in a Japanese setting. Than again, what's the matter with the names? And this is the part where our opinions will differ. I think names are unnecessary to change, first of all these puns are not adding to the game that much (when I played the games first, I didn't understood most of these puns, but I loved the game the same way), and mainly names are kinda sacred for me. For a long time a really hate when translators change the names of the characters, they don't have any right to do that, and think about it this way: would you, Dowolf, like it if I would call you Sun, just because of your avatar. If we can't change people's names in real life willy nilly, why we can change characters names just like that? Yeah, characters wont argue, but what about the author?

I never said or meant there are no downsides to a translation. I said, because of the huge timeskip, there is no need to elaborate where Phoenix lives and why he lives there.

This is where we will have to agree to disagree. The meaning behind the names is far more important than the literal sounds being spoken. While you can certainly go through a game without understanding every single pun, I would argue every instance of doing so means you missed something, whether it be some subtle foreshadowing, a joke, or simply the feeling of the lightbulb snapping on. Case in point: the さる男 line in AAI2. This line is utterly brilliant and one of my favorites in the entirely of the game; however, no literal translation could hope to handle it. Alternatively, consider Angel in Angel Beats. I consider it self-evident that calling her "Tenshi" notably detracts from the story and serves no purpose.

The real-world parallels are irrelevant. This is fiction, not the real world. Considering that the authors have consented to having names changed in the other games, and that the authors apparently considered the punny names important enough to keep doing them in game after game, charges that this is disrespecting the will of the author seem off-base. Furthermore, people in the real world do not particularly tend to reflect the meaning of their names: most people named James, for instance, are likely to go their entire lives without supplanting anyone. Yet in the Ace Attorney 'Verse, meaningful names are par for the course.

A more interesting debate could be had to whether or not the extra work this entails is worthwhile--for instance, the さる男 line only works in all its glory on a second playthrough, which the majority of players probably will not do.

But! This is again your project; I will leave you be.

 

[shahanshah]

Please, pop culture references in games is the worst thing in existence, stop that

 

[linkenski]

The japanese version has pop-culture references too. The localization didn't "add" that, they just changed them so it didn't alienate people in the west. E.g. people are talking english... it has to feel english, or it becomes awkward or confusing to read unless you know japanese, which by far the most on the receiving end of this project won't.

The issue of japanese food = western food or japan = america is just something the franchise was born with in the west because Ben Judd, the original localization lead decided to do that, so for consistency, the other localization teams have since done the same.

I don't mind if the locations aren't changed in a DGS translation. I just don't like the thought of people speaking english and calling each other "Ryu-san!" and "Horumes-sama!" and for that matter I really don't like the "As expected of Sherlockuh Horumes-sama" (example) phrases that plague every kind of direct japanese-english translation (especially if you're watching anime on streaming sites).

I don't know to what extent this is getting translated, but I just hope even if the names and locations stay intact, that it doesn't feel like the characters become weeaboos.

Last thing! I played the first case of this game. What are you guys going to do about the english madam in case 1? Are the japanese english-speaking people gonna be all like (Whoah, I can't understand what she's saying!) when she's speaking in english too? This is one thing where I feel a change would be necessary and let her english phrases become french, because you could easily look at her and mistake her for a french lady.

 

[Gazelle_Bro]

Last thing! I played the first case of this game. What are you guys going to do about the english madam in case 1? Are the japanese english-speaking people gonna be all like (Whoah, I can't understand what she's saying!) when she's speaking in english too? This is one thing where I feel a change would be necessary and let her english phrases become french, because you could easily look at her and mistake her for a french lady.

I think that's more of a common video game thing. Like everyone in England is speaking Japanese, but we know in reality they're probably speaking English. From this standpoint, we can assume Ryu and others are speaking Japanese while she speaks English, despite the fact that the text is in English.

 

[clock]

I really love this series and would love to join translate it but my English skill is kind of limited I think no one like to go after me to fix my grammar's mistakes....

Anyway I really like that you go with the original Japanese translation. When I played undub version of Dual Destiny and Layton vs Phoenix, the voices and the text sometimes not matched with each others. Things like localization can be done after you finish translate the game then why so many discussions about it?

 

[SuperiorCarnage]

Why can't you just ask the people who translated Investigations to help or just rip the story text and upload and ask people to translate?

 

[c80n]

Things like localization can be done after you finish translate the game then why so many discussions about it?

This is what I'd like to know as well.
This whole argument of localization vs translation is, actually, really dumb when a localization is easier done after a literal translation. So why the hell are you arguing about this? no one is stopping (from my understanding) anyone from doing a localized version of Potty's translation.

 

[linkenski]

I think that's more of a common video game thing. Like everyone in England is speaking Japanese, but we know in reality they're probably speaking English. From this standpoint, we can assume Ryu and others are speaking Japanese while she speaks English, despite the fact that the text is in English.

But when the language is suddenly used in a meta context like it is here, you can't just say "whoa her english accent is unintelligible!" when the cast is already speaking english unless you change her dialect or nationality. Perhaps you want them to say in english "Whoah, I can't understand the language she speaks. It doesn't sound japanese like OUR language!"

EDIT: okay, nuff said from me. I don't wanna disrupt the threat any further, but I was just trying my luck to see if I could challenge the decisions, no?

It's your project and you'll do it the way you want to. I respect that.

 

[zxcman]

Sadly interested=/=capable.

I should take a couple of Japanese classes.

The best I can offer to do would be proof reading and/or text insertion (provided the tools and know how of course)

 

[mujie]

Why can't you just ask the people who translated Investigations to help or just rip the story text and upload and ask people to translate?

I think that's an awesome idea. Both of them. If you have a public translation, you can just read through them to make sure it's not completely wrong or something. I know one fan translation did that (before the game got officially localised), but I can't remember how far it got.

 

[SoyAlexPop]

I can help you with editing all the image files if you need guys I have a fair knowledge on doing so

 

[BroBuzz]

Please, pop culture references in games is the worst thing in existence, stop that

Are you even a fan of Ace Attorney?

 

[linkenski]

He probably wrote it thinking the japanese version didn't have any popcult references and that was something the "awful english translations" started plaguing the series with.

 

[sarkwalvein]

I think that's more of a common video game thing. Like everyone in England is speaking Japanese, but we know in reality they're probably speaking English. From this standpoint, we can assume Ryu and others are speaking Japanese while she speaks English, despite the fact that the text is in English.

Think what the person that made the game wanted you to feel.
Think you are Japanese, you are reading your beautiful kanji and kana and then some foreigner (english) text appears.
The creator wants you to feel kind of alienated not understanding shit and also convey the stereotype of a refined foreigner lady.
The translation should always go for the same feel, no matter the languages, the idea is to keep the feel of the game the same.
You should go for text that makes the gamer "feel kind of alienated not understanding shit and also convey the stereotype of a refined foreigner lady".
I think using french text for this is a good idea.

 

[BroBuzz]

Think what the person that made the game wanted you to feel.
Think you are Japanese, you are reading your beautiful kanji and kana and then some foreigner (english) text appears.
The creator wants you to feel kind of alienated not understanding shit and also convey the stereotype of a refined foreigner lady.
The translation should always go for the same feel, no matter the languages, the idea is to keep the feel of the game the same.
You should go for text that makes the gamer "feel kind of alienated not understanding shit and also convey the stereotype of a refined foreigner lady".
I think using french text for this is a good idea.

Word. Athena in AA5 is a good example. In the Japanese version she constantly used English phrases to drive home the point that she's traveled a lot. In the English localization, they changed her English phrases to a multitude of other languages like French and German.

 

[linkenski]

But again. That's localization which the team here has decided not to do but I was just saying for the foreigner Lady a direct translation is super-hokey and confusing if they don't somehow change her english words at least. There is a juxtaposition of english and japanese in her writing in the japanese version. Something needs to be done so she doesn't just speak english, and then japanesey english because then every sense of context is lost.