ROM Hack Open Experiment: Replace Xenoblade Chronicles 3DS textures with Wii Higher resolution textures

jackkill

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Xenoblade Chronicle is a very welcome rpg to the New 3ds. However its textures are extremely diluted. Upon comparing the handled specs with the Wii, Ive found that RAM wise it should be able to run the game with the Wii's higher resolution textures (yes the wii don't have HD textures but higher resolution and sharper than the 3ds version). The only reason these washed out textures were used is I guess to reduce the cost of the slot1 card manufacturing by using a 32Gb chip instead of more.

Project status:
-I ve looked into this but got stuck on the XORPAD extraction of the rom decryption as my New3ds Xl is higher than the actually required v4.5 firmware to extract them.

What can be done by others who have access to XORPADS or more:
-decrypt the the rom file system (using 3DS Lazy or any other program)
-extract the 3DS textures (with 3ds explorer I guess)
-extract the Wii textures (TBD but I know its just a googling away))
-test as first solution a simple swap (with 3ds explorer?)
-reinject the textures into the rom and reencrypt n build it. (with 3ds explorer?)

Further to do:
-make an undub version of the game as the english voices are....well they break the illusion for me anyway.

The Wii textures format and 3ds should be the same as other games proved it. Of course it might not work but...Heck its an exciting Mod ;D
 
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gamesquest1

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i doubt the texture formats will be the same......idk if it will really work out, but tbh im thinking the textures being so....crappy might indeed be down to cart size limits, as they are pretty bad and the games does touch close to the maximum size on a 4GB card........but i doubt its going to be as simple as extract wii textures, dump into 3DS game, pretty sure some level of conversion would be required, but i wouldn't be surprised if it does play ok with better textures

also as of right now there is no way to decrypt XB as it uses the n3DS encryption, although making a tool to decrypt them should be fairly trivial (karl3ds devs already implemented it)
 
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jackkill

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i doubt the texture formats will be the same......idk if it will really work out, but tbh im thinking the textures being so....crappy might indeed be down to cart size limits, as they are pretty bad and the games does touch close to the maximum size on a 4GB card........but i doubt its going to be as simple as extract wii textures, dump into 3DS game, pretty sure some level of conversion would be required, but i wouldn't be surprised if it does play ok with better textures

also as of right now there is no way to decrypt XB as it uses the n3DS encryption, although making a tool to decrypt them should be fairly trivial (karl3ds devs already implemented it)

To be honest I relied on that the 3DS SZS files are the same format as SZS files found in Wii games. As in this thread: https://gbatemp.net/threads/extracting-models-and-textures-from-3ds-games.370788/
I am also not so sure it uses N3Ds encryption for two reasons:
1/ it runs on original 3Ds enough to display a message that demand to use the new model so there is a code execution from the same executable file used on both models (unless it then loads a N3ds one after check :/ ). for sure a first check of system is run and the code goes to the message instead of loading the main menu.
2/ that message would mean the original 3ds do run it for a second and for that you need to have it use an encryption supported on original 3ds.

Also I guess the game requires the new 3ds for the increased memory and processing power only.

To be honest I relied on that the 3DS SZS files are the same format as SZS files found in Wii games. As in this thread: https://gbatemp.net/threads/extracting-models-and-textures-from-3ds-games.370788/
i would hope textures would not be down to cart cost... :)
Id bet on it! a few cents less per card is millions of increased profit after sales :-)
 

liomajor

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The first step is the problem itself, the game is usualy for 9.4.0, since 9.3.0 the encryption key got changed for some parts.

We can decrypt most of it except ROMFS and Partition7 from Cartridge with current Tools.
 

jackkill

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The first step is the problem itself, the game is usualy for 9.4.0, since 9.3.0 the encryption key got changed for some parts.

We can decrypt most of it except ROMFS and Partition7 from Cartridge with current Tools.


Not really, I launched the game on my New 3dsxl under the firmware version 9.0...
 

liomajor

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N3DS can work with it, you not, unless you have the missing key to xor a working romfs with working xorpad. Go ahead and try it, you'll see.

EDIT:

Code:
deb2d9cb45b67cabc0578b6ae8c8b67c  000400000F700200.Main.exefs_7x.xorpad         >>> Works
ca6d741d5282fc5ecdaffc1b897e6313  000400000F700200.Main.exefs_norm.xorpad       >>> Works
f2671844c246c821a9068ea72f148e5d  000400000F700200.Main.exheader.xorpad         >>> Works
2a2f252c6dd10cd05755d87be5094fd3  000400000F700200.Main.romfs.xorpad            >>> Not working
4668c370e67e374ba18bde5156576c62  000400000F700200.Manual.romfs.xorpad          >>> Works
b552fb27b2327272dd6ccef92e488a30  000400000F700200.Partition7.romfs.xorpad      >>> Not working
d43d2f62ab0e384a1e67b7bb6113f60c  000400000F700200.UpdateData.romfs.xorpad      >>> Works

Not working = Garbage, no useable / extractable romfs.
 

Zidapi

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Okay, I'll be the one to point out the glaringly obvious problem here.

You want to rip the textures from a game that runs at 480P on the Wii and insert them into a 3DS game which runs natively at 400 x 240? Without resizing them?

Perhaps you do you plan on resizing them. Do you think your method of resizing Wii textures to a 400 x 240 screen is a more effective method than Nintendo's?
It's likely Nintendo are re-working the original hi-res textures that were converted to 480P for the Wii.

So you're intending to further compress textures that have already been compressed for use on the Wii? And you think the result will be better than Nintendo's effort?
 

KingOfHell

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Okay, I'll be the one to point out the glaringly obvious problem here.

You want to rip the textures from a game that runs at 480P on the Wii and insert them into a 3DS game which runs natively at 400 x 240? Without resizing them?

Perhaps you do you plan on resizing them. Do you think your method of resizing Wii textures to a 400 x 240 screen is a more effective method than Nintendo's?
It's likely Nintendo are re-working the original hi-res textures that were converted to 480P for the Wii.

So you're intending to further compress textures that have already been compressed for use on the Wii? And you think the result will be better than Nintendo's effort?

Unless the GPU doesn't require power of 2 textures, I don't think the screen resolution of the system has much to do with the texture sizes, though obviously you're not going to use 2048x2048 textures on a screen that small.

Also, it also kind of depends on the tools that were used to convert/compress the images. Everyone kind of assumes that a company will use the best tools, but sometimes that doesn't appear to be the case. I knew a guy who, to prove this exact point, re-created a couple of textures from a game and converted them (256 color, 256x256 textures), and got slightly(but still noticably) better quality textures out of it.

We always assume the people working on these games know what they're doing, but for all we know they had some idiot intern in charge of texture conversion, or just ran them all through a script.
 
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jackkill

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N3DS can work with it, you not, unless you have the missing key to xor a working romfs with working xorpad. Go ahead and try it, you'll see.

EDIT:

Code:
deb2d9cb45b67cabc0578b6ae8c8b67c  000400000F700200.Main.exefs_7x.xorpad        >>> Works
ca6d741d5282fc5ecdaffc1b897e6313  000400000F700200.Main.exefs_norm.xorpad      >>> Works
f2671844c246c821a9068ea72f148e5d  000400000F700200.Main.exheader.xorpad        >>> Works
2a2f252c6dd10cd05755d87be5094fd3  000400000F700200.Main.romfs.xorpad            >>> Not working
4668c370e67e374ba18bde5156576c62  000400000F700200.Manual.romfs.xorpad          >>> Works
b552fb27b2327272dd6ccef92e488a30  000400000F700200.Partition7.romfs.xorpad      >>> Not working
d43d2f62ab0e384a1e67b7bb6113f60c  000400000F700200.UpdateData.romfs.xorpad      >>> Works

Not working = Garbage, no useable / extractable romfs.

I understand your point thanks. I just assumed that since the N3DS could run it under firmware 9, that it meant the decryption keys are embedded in it. I tried using Decrypt9 (https://github.com/archshift/Decrypt9) but my firmware is 9.5 and don't have the exploit old browser on my n3ds. would using it on an original 3Ds decrypt the romfs partition?

Unless the GPU doesn't require power of 2 textures, I don't think the screen resolution of the system has much to do with the texture sizes, though obviously you're not going to use 2048x2048 textures on a screen that small.

Also, it also kind of depends on the tools that were used to convert/compress the images. Everyone kind of assumes that a company will use the best tools, but sometimes that doesn't appear to be the case. I knew a guy who, to prove this exact point, re-created a couple of textures from a game and converted them (256 color, 256x256 textures), and got slightly(but still noticably) better quality textures out of it.

We always assume the people working on these games know what they're doing, but for all we know they had some idiot intern in charge of texture conversion, or just ran them all through a script.

another example is the catastrophic quality of FF13 videos on xbox360. I took the PS3 videos and compressed them using wmp9 codec and got same blueray quality as the ps3. moreover the file size was nearly a third of the crappy xbox360 bink videos!
that shows that also sometimes its just money talking (between sony and square) or just that they didn't bother to think beyond blueray/dvd or didn't know -_- .
 

Zidapi

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another example is the catastrophic quality of FF13 videos on xbox360. I took the PS3 videos and compressed them using wmp9 codec and got same blueray quality as the ps3. moreover the file size was nearly a third of the crappy xbox360 bink videos!
that shows that also sometimes its just money talking (between sony and square) or just that they didn't bother to think beyond blueray/dvd or didn't know -_- .
Fair enough. I look forward to seeing what you can do then! Assuming you manage to decrypt the romfs of course :P
 

KingOfHell

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I think it's more like take more care when compressing/scaling the images down so they don't look like shit
 

endoverend

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Every time I try to play this game, no matter what version, I never manage to be impressed by the textures. Hell, I have a mid- to high-range gaming PC and running it with the HD texture pack with 2x internal resolution still looks worse on my 1080p monitor than the regular unmodified Wii version looks on my 50" 480i SDTV. I think the regular Wii textures on the smaller screen would look beautiful, and I'm looking forward to this project. Good luck in your efforts!
 
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dubbz82

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Okay, I'll be the one to point out the glaringly obvious problem here.

You want to rip the textures from a game that runs at 480P on the Wii and insert them into a 3DS game which runs natively at 400 x 240? Without resizing them?

Perhaps you do you plan on resizing them. Do you think your method of resizing Wii textures to a 400 x 240 screen is a more effective method than Nintendo's?
It's likely Nintendo are re-working the original hi-res textures that were converted to 480P for the Wii.

So you're intending to further compress textures that have already been compressed for use on the Wii? And you think the result will be better than Nintendo's effort?



Game textures are often much larger on the media than the system actually requires. This is why, for example, smash brothers for the wii looks so good in dolphin when rendered at 720 or even 1080p. If the textures on the wii are in fact of higher resolution, this does in fact make sense. Are we even sure that they AREN'T using the wii textures already though?
 

TheShadowRunner

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good idea, although with the Jpn rom now out, i'd rather be interested in an undub.
There's a reason the textures are the way they are, as many pointed out, for better performances..
 

Apache Thunder

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Xenoblade uses a new encryption key slot on the n3DS. The currrent iteration of Decrypt9 isn't setup to account for this and won't decrypt this game properly. I think Karl3DS devs already managed to get this working. Your best bet is to wait for them to release Karl3DS. It will likely include the needed tools to decrypt n3DS exclusive games like this one.
 
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Psi-hate

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Wait...The 3DS version has more detailed and higher res textures than the Wii one...Why is this necessary? My friend have both versions (N3DS XC Rom dump and an actual XC Wii Version) and Wii one is a little uglier than the N3DS one.
 
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