Homebrew N64 emulation with iPlayer/Supercard DS Two ?

granville

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Rydian said:
granville said:
Although, DS games tend to have less of a "shake" to them when it comes to 3D. You know, 3D games on PS1 had a sort of distortion effect to them when it comes to texturing. They'd bend a bit when the camera moves around. I think it's related to a zbuffer effect or something...
AFAIK the PS1 models would "shake" because the PS1 used an inaccurate renderer that rounded/guessed values (thus points of a polygon would be in slightly different locations from one frame to the next, and that was fine because on a TV the "interpolation" disguised/hid most of it), that's part of the reason it's light on the specs... and it's part of the reason they still shake on an emulator, because it's how the hardware did it.

For anybody that wants to know how weak the DS's 3D support it, notice that in a 3D game it doesn't even apply texture filtering.
I did notice it on the original system though, so it isn't just emulators or new tv's that make it happen. I'm not sure why it happens or whatever, but it was always a problem where they shake. Especially in primitive 3D games such as the battles in FF7. As i said before, i've been told that PS1 lacked hardware z-buffer, which is apparently what caused polygons or textures to be warped or distorted. More about that here with the people who know things- http://www.ngemu.com/forums/psx-plugin-que...n-whats-up.html

Lack of texture filtering though does not have anything to do with polygons or 3D hardware. It's just a special filter for textures themselves to make them look less blocky, doesn't really affect 3D geometry processing. The DS' 3D is weak due to the fact that it has limits to the amount of polygons it can render per second. It is inferior in this aspect to the N64 or PS1, although it can achieve higher framerates easier than either system, there's no polygon/texture shaking, and textures can look superior to the N64 due to larger cartridge sizes. Most DS games can in fact look superior to anything on PS1 or N64. I'll cite a game like Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days or Mario Kart DS. There are a lot of games like that, and they tend to destroy anything seen on PS1 or N64. Not because DS is more powerful, but just that developers push DS farther than they did with those other systems. I will say that this is one of the reasons N64 or PS1 emulation would be impossible without some sort of augment, both systems are technically MORE powerful than DS. PS1 has a much slower CPU, but the 3D support can handle higher polygon counts than DS. And i'm doubtful that just added CPU speed would help any in this regard. You'd have to do it all in software to overcome the 3D limits, which is extremely slow.

@GUiii11-

Only if you have the original source code can you attempt to convert a game to another system. One of the few exceptions i've witnessed is Stealth's port of Sonic 1 to GBA. He didn't have the source code, but he was able to reverse engineer the code to create his own original Sonic engine, similar but not identical to the original game. N64 games would be nigh impossible to do the same to though. N64 itself was a hard and complicated system to program for. FYI, there have been a lot of Mario and Sonic 16bit fangames which fairly replicate the experience. But there have been almost no 3D games which replicate the 3D gameplay properly. Just not easy at all. We would have seen a bunch of Mario 64 ports by now if it were as easy as that.
 

Rydian

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granville said:
I did notice it on the original system though, so it isn't just emulators or new tv's that make it happen. I'm not sure why it happens or whatever, but it was always a problem where they shake. Especially in primitive 3D games such as the battles in FF7. As i said before, i've been told that PS1 lacked hardware z-buffer, which is apparently what caused polygons or textures to be warped or distorted. More about that here with the people who know things- http://www.ngemu.com/forums/psx-plugin-que...n-whats-up.htmlI said it happened on the original hardware, and from that link...
QUOTE said:
Perspective correct textuing would not really help "wobbling" polys: that needs sub-pixel accuracy in the vertex data (PSX has no sub-pixel accuracy, so everything is rounded to integer values).Which backs up what I was saying (thanks for the source, didn't have one myself on that).

I was only talking about the polygons themselves moving, the only texture mention I did was that the DS doesn't filter it's textures.
QUOTE(granville @ Mar 19 2010, 05:14 AM)
Lack of texture filtering though does not have anything to do with polygons or 3D hardware. It's just a special filter for textures themselves to make them look less blocky, doesn't really affect 3D geometry processing.
I know, but it takes more power to filter textures than not, I just wanted to make sure people knew that.
 

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Most of your points are correct; however n64 emulation on the pc could be MUCH better than it is now. Simply claiming "if it could be better it would be", you know that's false. Snes emulation on the nds could be much better, but it currently isn't. Project 64 rarely receives updates, the project is basically dead unless someone decided to take it on and complete it. I know because I've watched its progress for years and it's practically had zero progress for a long time.
 

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fearofshorts said:
Dr.Killa said:
pandora doesn't even have a n64 emulator. hell it doesn't even have an NES or other emulators like that yet, they're obsessed with challenging themselves by trying to make psp emulators, dreamcast and all that stuff

Where have you been?
The Pandora has an N64 emulator (created by Ari64 and Adventus) which can play any non-rare (the game company behind Goldeneye) game at over fullspeed with sound and higher-than-64-resolution, and rare games at close-to-full-speed with no sound. And it's getting better.

And the Dreamcast emulator is actually coming along nicely. It can already run several games with sound (not quite fullspeed) and it is expected that it will be able to play at least 80-90% of all DC games fullspeed with sound, and most of the rest fullspeed without sound.

And yes, it does have NES, SNES, MAME, GBA, GB, GBC, all of the ataris, C64 and a whole bunch of other ones. And many devs have stated that they will work on a particular program when they get their Pandoras.

Oh, and just to brag, we have THE Exophase as a frequently-posting forum member who helps with any dev issues.

lol, i just read a thread about making a psp emulator and saw that info (the one i posted). i guess it was an old thread
 

WiiUBricker

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Funny thread. I have an iPlayer and must say that it can barely emulate GBA games (sound and graphic issues). No way it can ever emulate N64 games. I dont believe it has a 400 MHz CPU and 32 MB extra RAM.
 

gameguy95

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granville said:
Ben_j said:
What about Playstation emulation ? I remember I could run Psx games with my old Pentium 1 133mhz, without gpu. It was slow as hell and the 3d was all glitched but it worked
Now THAT might not be out of the question with the power of iPlayer/DSTWO. In fact, several months ago i spoke to Normmatt (AKAIO programmer and smart dude indeed) and he seemed to think that the DS could possibly emulate PS1 with iPlayer or DSTWO. I wouldn't count it out myself, it seems more plausible than N64, being primarily a 2D system and all. I still think it would choke at some of the 3D games though. Both N64 AND PS1 could handle more polygons per second than DS. Although, DS games tend to have less of a "shake" to them when it comes to 3D. You know, 3D games on PS1 had a sort of distortion effect to them when it comes to texturing. They'd bend a bit when the camera moves around. I think it's related to a zbuffer effect or something...

But still, this would require some intensive coding on someone's part. NOTHING is possible until it is done and has proven to be done IMO. Speculation is nothing without hard facts. For now, we should probably see how well the SNES emulator for DSTWO will run. If even it slows down after a ton of optimization, i wouldn't get your hopes up for much. Especially if it can't even play special chip games.
ps1 emulation!!! maybe i'll try out a ps game for once then instead of all my DS games
 

granville

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WiiBricker said:
Funny thread. I have an iPlayer and must say that it can barely emulate GBA games (sound and graphic issues). No way it can ever emulate N64 games. I dont believe it has a 400 MHz CPU and 32 MB extra RAM.
So you are arguing against specs based solely on a single emulator that is most likely not as optimized as it could be? We know it has 400mhz and 32MB of memory. It even has a coprocessor apparently, with some extra speed according to official spec sheets. I'll also mention that the gba emulator for iplayer is a quick and probably dirty port of the PSP one. >_>

@gameguy95

I wouldn't get your hopes up. I seriously doubt anyone will even attempt to make a PS1 emulator for iplayer/dstwo. There's probably a good reason no one has tried to make other things for iplayer yet- the development kit hasn't been released. No one knows how to take advantage of the specs. the GBA iplayer programmer somehow obtained the devkit from supercard team. Most of us actually believe he's really an employee in the guise of a normal amateur programmer. His emulator is likely to be included with DSTWO. He's also probably the same guy who is coding the SNES emulator for it.
 

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