ROM Hack Jump Ulimate Stars Translation Project

[Clove]

Hey, take your time. I'd rather have the translation patch Miyamoto-style than half-assed. :-)

Good point. Making those descriptions for the manga shouldn't take too long.
So yeah, I change my mind, quality over speed

The descriptions would probably take a very long time, actually.

The game is a lot of text, especially in the database and Q&A sections. Personally, I'd go with the alpha release and then a final. It looks like the biggest problem is getting translators to do the larger files, and by the time it's completely finished, there's a chance no one will be interested anymore.

If the alpha were to get released and get some publicity, it might also be easier to get more translators.

 

[unr]

I say release it already.

This is not different from releasing beta software.
People will try it out, report the bugs (typos, mistranslations), give some tips and generate pre-release publicity, so you can push out a professional quality product to a bigger audience when it`s ready.

Pros of delaying the release?
None really, people will only get more frustrated waiting for it.

The goal of this translation is to make JUS playable for non-japanese speaking audience.
Yes, fans would be pleased to see manga descriptions, etc, but that`s not as important IMO.

 

[DaRk_ViVi]

I think a final release is better, or better something like v0.99 that should be complete but it's up to the people to play and report typo errors/bugs.

However i just want some screenshots or videos for now.

 

[Mewgia]

Dump the database for fast and release a patch now, there's no point in waiting for it to be 100% complete. It would be a beta patch sort of thing, and 46% done is fine for a beta patch.

Dark_Vivi, screenshots and videos would be pointless >_>. A patch would have to be made to make those screenshots and videos, and if a patch is made anyway it should be released to the public. Then we wouldn't need screenies and vids because we could see it first-hand.

 

[beautifulbeast]

Well, it seems like this is a hot topic and there a diversity of opinions wich I didn't expect since everyone was begging for a path even if it was incomplete.

Comments that I've found enlightening so far would be those of flavor who says that releasing a beta won't keep the project from stalling if it has to and specially thaigrocer saying that he would rather like a Miyamoto kind of patch. I found the latter particularly isnpiring because Miyamoto is known for delaying all of the games he directs (wich so far have been a lot) in order to make them into masterpieces. I could mention Super Mario, Donkey Kong, Zelda, Kirby... you guys should read his entry at the Wikipedia but I'll brief it with one of his phrases: "A delayed game is eventually good; a bad game is bad forever".

On the other hand, unr60 claims that a release at this point would be good to raise some awareness about the project wich would be translated in more translation power while others point that it could be used to test the translations for bugs and mistranslations although I'm not really sure about this anyway. I mean, the webapp has been up for about two months and this thread was started even further back yet it doesn't seem people (us, the readers of this thread, you) are doing nothing to promote the project commenting at other forums, looking for help in friends or at school and or doing anything other than begging for a release "ASAP" (damm beggers...

).

Anyway, we still have to listen p1noypr1de and FAST6191's minds.

 

[VGK]

I say release. It's completely playable in it's form.

 

[Mewgia]

Well, it seems like this is a hot topic and there a diversity of opinions wich I didn't expect since everyone was begging for a path even if it was incomplete.

Comments that I've found enlightening so far would be those of flavor who says that releasing a beta won't keep the project from stalling if it has to and specially thaigrocer saying that he would rather like a Miyamoto kind of patch. I found the latter particularly isnpiring because Miyamoto is known for delaying all of the games he directs (wich so far have been a lot) in order to make them into masterpieces. I could mention Super Mario, Donkey Kong, Zelda, Kirby... you guys should read his entry at the Wikipedia but I'll brief it with one of his phrases: "A delayed game is eventually good; a bad game is bad forever".

On the other hand, unr60 claims that a release at this point would be good to raise some awareness about the project wich would be translated in more translation power while others point that it could be used to test the translations for bugs and mistranslations although I'm not really sure about this anyway. I mean, the webapp has been up for about two months and this thread was started even further back yet it doesn't seem people (us, the readers of this thread, you) are doing nothing to promote the project commenting at other forums, looking for help in friends or at school and or doing anything other than begging for a release "ASAP" (damm beggers...

).

Anyway, we still have to listen p1noypr1de and FAST6191's minds.

And yet, you still have no good reason for not releasing a patch now. All you provided as argument was that we have done nothing to help this project, which isn't exactly true. Some people have asked around (such as I) and just have had no positive results. Therefor, they don't report that this has happened to the thread, since a failure is not something people put at the top of their list for posting. If they don't report, you don't know. Then, you point fingers.
And not releasing a patch just because others have not produced tangible results is purely selfish. In other threads you stated that you are doing this not for yourself, but for the benefit of others, so how about you start letting this benefit others, aye?

And using Miyamoto as an example of why you should wait until translation is 100% done? That doesn't work. Why? Well, when Miyamoto heads a game, can he release it publicly unfinished and then easily update it later when he's done? No. Can the JUSTP team? Easily. See what I'm saying?

Testing for bugs would be a good idea, because, as one person pointed out the spanish translation team had problems getting their translation to work in some parts of the game.

And that, my friend, is why you should release a patch now.

 

[consigliori]

beautifulbeast has a point when he says it is better to release a finished patch than an unfinished one. But, at this point, we have to ask ourselves, what is the meaning of "finished" here??

Do we really need the storyboards and all the non-essential stuff translated?? The main goal of a translation patch is to make the game playable, since Jump! Ultimate Stars story is not of its high points... ¬¬

People who knows the animes envolved want to play their favorite characters, not necessarily know what happens at that shattered galaxy.

Of course, a bugged and unplayable patch is unecessary haste. But, on the other hand, if many here said that the game files required for a good gameplay are complete, then the main goal of the project is achieved!

I agree with Mewgia when he says that, for the sake of the project, a beta must be released so bugs and problems can be pointed.

If you wait till a final version, there will be a false sense of "finished task", and maybe the final version is not good, and we won´t have a revision after all.

Myamoto´s perfection don´t fits here, since masterpieces in our case can only be achieved with loads of tests and reports.

If you guys want the comunity to help, then release a Beta Patch, so we can at least help as "testers"!

 

[Flavor]

All you provided as argument was that we have done nothing to help this project, which isn't exactly true. Some people have asked around (such as I) and just have had no positive results.
It's pretty hard to prove that such an effort has actually helped the project.

And not releasing a patch just because others have not produced tangible results is purely selfish. In other threads you stated that you are doing this not for yourself, but for the benefit of others, so how about you start letting this benefit others, aye?
Well, I'd say that you either don't know the meaning of "selfish" or you are misusing it to try to guilt him into something. Since you're from Florida, it could go either way.

But seriously, how is this at all selfish? What's beautifulbeast to gain from doing any of this? Even if you believe that he'll gain tons of respect when this gets released, then it's only more incentive for him to release it.

For it to be selfish, it has to benefit him and NOT others. The most likely outcome is that someday this will benefit others and NOT himself. I don't see any outcome where he benefits more than anyone else.

QUOTE(Mewgia @ May 31 2007, 09:02 PM)

can he release it publicly unfinished and then easily update it later when he's done? No. Can the JUSTP team?

Well, that seems to be part of the original question, doesn't it? If the answer is that a release now means no further interest in completing the project, then your answer is NO.

 

[Flavor]

I agree with Mewgia when he says that, for the sake of the project, a beta must be released so bugs and problems can be pointed.

If you wait till a final version, there will be a false sense of "finished task", and maybe the final version is not good, and we won´t have a revision after all.

In my opinion, these are the best arguments FOR releasing something now. If there is no active work going into translation at this point, then why not work the re-insertion of text back into the binary? At least you're not getting in the way of translation work, and when the translation work is done, you will know that your re-insertion tools/sceme is all ready and tested.

I'm all for the release, and I probablly won't even play it. What I'm mainly against is poor reasoning and making descisions without all the information.

 

[KINGOFNOOBS]

beautifulbeast. Just release what you got. I'll do it myself. (Insert the stuff into the game) with what little skill I have.

 

[TheDrizzle]

My suggestion, which has already been made, is to release it in phases as WIP's. Do like menus then release that version, add talking text then release, manga, story, etc.. Thats my 2cents.

 

[flanker22]

you beggers all sound pathetic how bout stfu and let them release it when they feel like it.

 

[NemesisHunter]

As TheDrizzle pointed out, release alpha patches, with each consecutive release covering the pre-released patch, and its newly added additions.

For example, the first version would be a patch to translate the menu screens and the general game interface. The secondary patch would translate the story missions mode, the third patch would take all that and add the koma character names (without descriptions), the final beta with descriptions, and the Final Test Release would hold all the previously aforementioned data from the previous patches. The optimized final patch would add the last bit of info that is less used within the game (manga translations and quiz questions).

Any release would not be released until the first phased release has been cleared out of bugs and errors. As such, progress WILL be made, and quality is assured.

For example, until we make sure the first release translates the Menu Interface and buttons accurately, we would hold off from releasing the next one which will translate the Campaign Missions mode until feedback from the beta-testers has been proven positive.

 

[Clove]

On the other hand, unr60 claims that a release at this point would be good to raise some awareness about the project wich would be translated in more translation power

B-but, that was my point first. :'(

Anyway, I posted in #null forums some time ago and it got little to no reaction. I don't think enough people are going to care about it because of the flash cart entry price. Things like roms (for working emulators), manga and anime are much easier to get support for because the audience is much larger. It could also be that they're not taking it seriously enough to devote that much time and effort into it. This is why a proof of concept would be the best.

Another, less likely problem I could see in a community approach like this is the lack of credit when the rom is downloaded. Perhaps some incentive could be a txt file included with the patch that had a list of the usernames in the database that contributed.

The best way to find support is probably to find one or two people in the DS flash cart community who know Japanese and have a lot of free time. My stance on the untranslated material is still that it's a lot of unneeded fluff that 90% of the userbase won't think to look at. I also think "Miyamoto games" are a poor comparison to something that'll be digitally distributed. With hard copies like games, you don't have a chance to release updates, but with this you do. There's absolutely no harm in releasing it as-is, in my opinion.

 

[Mewgia]

All you provided as argument was that we have done nothing to help this project, which isn't exactly true. Some people have asked around (such as I) and just have had no positive results.
It's pretty hard to prove that such an effort has actually helped the project.

And not releasing a patch just because others have not produced tangible results is purely selfish. In other threads you stated that you are doing this not for yourself, but for the benefit of others, so how about you start letting this benefit others, aye?
Well, I'd say that you either don't know the meaning of "selfish" or you are misusing it to try to guilt him into something. Since you're from Florida, it could go either way.

But seriously, how is this at all selfish? What's beautifulbeast to gain from doing any of this? Even if you believe that he'll gain tons of respect when this gets released, then it's only more incentive for him to release it.

For it to be selfish, it has to benefit him and NOT others. The most likely outcome is that someday this will benefit others and NOT himself. I don't see any outcome where he benefits more than anyone else.

QUOTE(Mewgia @ May 31 2007, 09:02 PM)can he release it publicly unfinished and then easily update it later when he's done? No. Can the JUSTP team?

Well, that seems to be part of the original question, doesn't it? If the answer is that a release now means no further interest in completing the project, then your answer is NO.

Helping the project: Of course it';s hard to prove that it helped, for the simple fact that it didn't help at all. This was my point. Beatifulbeat said in his post that we have just sat back and done nothing to help. I was contensting that.

Selfish: Well, the beinift he gets from not dumping the database now for a beta patch is that he does not spend the effort to do it. But if he does take the two minutes to dump it, it can benefit many others as was his original mission. yes, it will benefit others in the end, but I see no reason not to take those two little minutes.

Release then complete: I think there will still be a lot of further interest in this project, as the big files that are not done yet sound like rather important parts of the game. Therefor, people will still want those translated.

 

[beautifulbeast]

First of all, lets not get too excited about this since we're all in the same boat.

@Mewgia: Dumping the text will take more than two minutes; I've you've visited the webapp you'll have notice that translators have an option to provide more than just one translation to a phrase, wich means some have to be chosen and others cleaned and that would take time. Also, thanks for looking for help and it's a shame it didn't work.

@Clove: Sorry if your ideas weren't heard at some point or recapped in my last post. You've got a point in that giving some credit would be a good idea- what I have in mind is providing a lit of all those who helped in the download page or maybe a text file in the zip with the patch.

@NemesisHunter: Those are some great ideas about how to control quality in a project (one of my areas of interest). I'm not sure if they would be useful in a project like this, but great ideas anyway.

Still no word from any of the translators or FAST6191, so I guess I'll have to take the step on my own. Give me some time to think about it and tomorrow I'll post with a plan.

 

[FAST6191]

I have been reading developments here every day but I put of replying until various opinions have been gathered, I have to say I am more in favour or releasing a nearly finished product rather than a partially done one. I would ideally like the commwin.bin file to be finished as well.

I have no great desire to manually add files into the file system just yet so any betas will be NDSTool rebuilds which is seems a lot of the more common carts complain about.

Pointer systems and the graphics have been worked out for most of the files now, forget what I said in one of the last posts with the graph I hit my head or something and did not realise it was a relative pointer system (i.e. current position+ whatever the pointer was). Although such things are fairly rare it is a situation made more embarrassing by the fact I was brushing up on my assembly skills at the time.

With regards to the database there is no great need yet beautifulbeast, I can grab a bunch of the small files just by looking (if someone has a decent unicode to shiftJIS app around I would appreciate a link).

 

[Flavor]

With regards to the database there is no great need yet beautifulbeast, I can grab a bunch of the small files just by looking (if someone has a decent unicode to shiftJIS app around I would appreciate a link).

I think in Linux you can just use iconv.
Under Windows, though, I just grabbed a tool called EmEditor. There's a free version if you go to the download page on their site. It'll let you open and save-as whatever format you'd like. I would also use it to copy from Word, paste to EmEditor and save as SJIS.

 

[FAST6191]

Thanks Flavor, just wish I could find a distro that I like. inconv has a windows implementation though so it should be good, if not I will stop being lazy and write my own tool.