Hacking Discs that could be used without a modchip

teq

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I've been trying to find a reason why only specific LG drives are able to read Wii DVDs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the only excuse for this is that other drives haven't been added to Raw Dump.

When I insert a Wii disc, I get a lot of stuttering and excessive processor usage, because the file system is trying to find a valid structure. I don't see how this can be any different on an LG drive, as the hardware itself isn't physically different from any other drive.

I mean, it's not a case that as soon as you put the disc in, you can browse the contents directly, right?



In any case, my main question is: Why couldn't FriiDump be reversed into writing standard Wii games, opposed to reading them?
 

Sinkhead

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Because DVD burners that people have in their computers have different hardware to commercial DVD burners. It's something about certain sections of the disc that can't be written by home DVD burners, I think...
 

teq

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Sinkhead said:
Because DVD burners that people have in their computers have different hardware to commercial DVD burners. It's something about certain sections of the disc that can't be written by home DVD burners, I think...

I'm quite aware of that.

Commerical discs are stamped with the data on them, so they can technically contain anything that doesn't adhere to a file system standard.

Retail DVDROM drives contain support for specific file systems and will refuse anything else. I believe ISO9660 and UDF support are standard, with software extensions that support El Torito, Joliet, Mount Rainier, and EFS structures.... to name a few. However, these file systems and structures are all software based.

It's not as if the lens knows what to look for. The firmware is what sets limitations on where the lens can travel and where it can't.


So, say someone came along and wrote a low level application that would tell the drive what to do, despite what the firmware had on it. Then, we could write a disc that is identical to a retail version of a game... no more modchips that have to adhere to ISO9660-2 data structures.


One example of this is the ability to draw pictures using the laser: http://www.instructables.com/id/Burning-vi...with-data-beta/
 

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Wii discs are an unlicensed clone of DVD, which isn't officially referred to using the name "DVD". There's minor differences that make them not readable by most DVD drives.

In fact... The general public can't write to them at all. Since no blank Wii format discs are available. Because of this, backups are run by modifying the Wii hardware to read DVD discs.
 

teq

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theclaw said:
Wii discs are an unlicensed clone of DVD, which isn't officially referred to using the name "DVD". There's minor differences that make them not readable by most DVD drives.

In fact... The general public can't write to them at all. Since no blank Wii format discs are available. Because of this, backups are run by modifying the Wii hardware to read DVD discs.

Claw, we already discussed this in another thread.

Wii games are DVDs. The data on them is not what makes them a DVD, it's the disc itself that makes it a DVD.

Like I already outlined, the reason most DVDROM drives can't read Wii games is because the file structure(the data on the disc, not the disc itself) is non-standard and isn't supported through software or firmware.


Maybe after looking at these pages, you'll realize your confusion:

http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Wiidisc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9660
 

teq

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theclaw said:
Either way, that is not their actual name. Nintendo doesn't use the word DVD when referring to Wii discs.

End of discussion.

Wow, you're so stubborn, you can't even admit you're wrong.

More citation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_optical_discs

QUOTEFor the Wii, Nintendo extended the technology to use a full size 12-cm, 4.7/8.5 GB DVD-based disc (RVL-006), enabling it to have the benefits of the Nintendo GameCube Game Disc, while having the standard capacity of a double-layer DVD-ROM.
 

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This is not what I signed up for. We're turning a legitimate question into an argument. My own opinions relating to you, are irrelevant to the topic, so I'll respectfully not go into them.

Move along. I never claimed to right about everything here. I'm standing by my position on one point unless Nintendo themselves tells me otherwise: DVD is not the name given by Nintendo to the Wii disc format.
 

Lukeage

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teq said:
I've been trying to find a reason why only specific LG drives are able to read Wii DVDs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the only excuse for this is that other drives haven't been added to Raw Dump.

When I insert a Wii disc, I get a lot of stuttering and excessive processor usage, because the file system is trying to find a valid structure. I don't see how this can be any different on an LG drive, as the hardware itself isn't physically different from any other drive.

I mean, it's not a case that as soon as you put the disc in, you can browse the contents directly, right?



In any case, my main question is: Why couldn't FriiDump be reversed into writing standard Wii games, opposed to reading them?

My understanding is that the LG drives are put into a debug mode which stops them from ignoring "unknown" discs. Normally, when a disc cannot be read, the drive is put into a state which doesn't allow the disc to be read. When in debug mode, LG drives are allowed to just dump the data as it reads it (i.e a Raw dump).

If other drives have a smiliar debug mode, then this would be possible with them.
 

suppachipmunk

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I know that there is one person, Liggy, who alters the Sony Nec firmware to do bitsetting and all.

Is there a way that someone can alter firmware to read the wii games, or write an open-source firmware that can be used on all DVD-Burners? Just a thought.
 

teq

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Lukeage said:
My understanding is that the LG drives are put into a debug mode which stops them from ignoring "unknown" discs. Normally, when a disc cannot be read, the drive is put into a state which doesn't allow the disc to be read. When in debug mode, LG drives are allowed to just dump the data as it reads it (i.e a Raw dump).

If other drives have a smiliar debug mode, then this would be possible with them.

That makes sense. The next logical step would be to start hacking LiteOn drives, as they're the most modded drives I know of.


Technically, in this mode, we should be able to write raw data to the drive, right?
 

skawo96

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Yeah, maybe it's possible to make DVDRs as originals, but well...really we have an modchips and it is good for me.
Of course making DVDRs as original wii discs would make some of things different.
 

teq

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skawo96 said:
Yeah, maybe it's possible to make DVDRs as originals, but well...really we have an modchips and it is good for me.
Of course making DVDRs as original wii discs would make some of things different.

Drivechips are fine, but this would be something anyone could do.
 

trent_fox

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Sinkhead said:
Because DVD burners that people have in their computers have different hardware to commercial DVD burners. It's something about certain sections of the disc that can't be written by home DVD burners, I think...
Sinkhead is right, you didn't quite understand him properly. The Wii verifies discs by checking areas of the disc that DVD burners are PHYSICALLY unable to write to. Write all the custom firmware you want, you'll never be able to modify the BCA or DMI of blank discs. The only way the Wii can read burned discs is by modifing the drives RAM, which is currently (and probably forever) only possible with a modchip.
 

skawo96

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Modchip in DVD burner!
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]

Joke.


People, I remember when there was no modchip and when Wiinja come out everyone was excited and now...ahhh....
 

teq

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trent_fox said:
Sinkhead said:
Because DVD burners that people have in their computers have different hardware to commercial DVD burners. It's something about certain sections of the disc that can't be written by home DVD burners, I think...
Sinkhead is right, you didn't quite understand him properly. The Wii verifies discs by checking areas of the disc that DVD burners are PHYSICALLY unable to write to. Write all the custom firmware you want, you'll never be able to modify the BCA or DMI of blank discs. The only way the Wii can read burned discs is by modifing the drives RAM, which is currently (and probably forever) only possible with a modchip.

Actually, I did understand him correctly.

The physical limitations come from the fact that standard DVDROM drives have a file system in which all data on the disc is contained. This allows the drive to adhere to a standard that is accepted by operating systems and consumer devices, like DVD players. However, if you were to tell the drive to ignore that file system, and write raw data in the sectors you tell it to write, it could essentially clone a Wii disc, BCA and all.

If you look back to the instructable I posted, someone used Matlab to write data to specific sectors on a CDROM, in an attempt to draw a picture.

With a bit of hacking, copying Wii games bit for bit wouldn't be far off.
 

trent_fox

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And the fact that the BCA are not sectors? You might as well aim a laser pointer at your wall and claim you're writing data in your wallpaper.
 

teq

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trent_fox said:
And the fact that the BCA are not sectors? You might as well aim a laser pointer at your wall and claim you're writing data in your wallpaper.

Sectors are at the file system's discretion. Without a file system, all you're pretty much doing is aiming.

I realize the BCA is marked using a different laser, but if it is read by an optical reader that is sensitive to 650nm, then it can just as easily be written with a 650nm laser.

Granted, decoding it could be a pain.... but I believe all of that information is in plain english on the clear part of the disc.
 
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