?
  1. Yes

    181 vote(s)
    64.0%
  2. No

    102 vote(s)
    36.0%
  3. 283 voter(s)
  1. Cryoraptor

    Cryoraptor GBAtemp Regular
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    This isn't how your immune system works. Your immune system builds resistance to every pathogen that invades your body, if you survive the infection. This immunity is pathogen-specific; memory cells that have learned to effectively kill pathogenic E. coli, a bacterium you probably frequently encouter if you 'dive in sewage water', will do absolutely fuck all against SARS-CoV-2. Memory cells that are specific to normal human coronaviruses may offer some sort of limited resistance, but no immunity, and memory cells that aren't specific to any coronaviruses will not help whatsoever, and you might as well not have any memory cells at all. The only memory cells that can effectively make you highly resistant or immune to COVID-19 are those that have become specific to SARS-CoV-2. The memory cells you've developed to pathogens in sewage are specific to several species of bacteria, which offers no help to any viral infection.

    In children, I agree that they have to get dirty sometimes and there is such a thing as being too clean, as in those early years the immune system needs stimulation and exercise to mature and promote a healthy relationship between the immune system, the bacteria inside of you and the bacteria in the environment. But in adults with a mature immune system, higher-than-average exposure to pathogens has little effect. Of course, adults do need to come into contact with normal circulating pathogens to maintain resistance to them, but the benefit exposure brings peaks around this normal level. At higher levels than this you are just putting your immune system under extra stress, which will decrease its ability to fight in the long run.

    The best ways for an adult to maintain a healthy immune system, both innate and adaptive, is through exercise, adequate nutrition and avoiding as much psychological stress as possible. With COVID, your best defence is your innate immune system, which covers physical barriers such as mucous and epithelial cells that line your respiratory system, and also the innate cellular response such as inflammation and immune cells like macrophages that attack anything that appears to be foreign, dying or neoplastic, so exercising and generally keeping healthy is important during this pandemic.

    But back to the point, refusing a free or very cheap vaccine because 'I haz a stwong immune sistem' is a ridiculous and infantile argument. You have a strong immune system? Great. The vaccine will be more effective for you because your adaptive response will be stronger and the memory cells you build from the vaccine will last longer. That also means you can't pass the disease onto those with weaker immune systems than you for longer as well. The point of giving young people the vaccine isn't to stop young people from dying, because obviously they don't die from COVID, but to halt the spread of the disease so vulnerable people who might actually become seriously ill from it don't come into contact with it from younger people who have no symptoms and have no idea they are passing the virus on.

    In the same way swimming in sewage water doesn't protect you from measles, swimming in dirty water doesn't protect you from COVID-19 either.
     
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  2. SG854

    SG854 I Will Show You Paradise
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    I been grabbing my Dogs shit and smearing it all over my face. You telling me that doesn't work?
     
  3. Cryoraptor

    Cryoraptor GBAtemp Regular
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    Oh ok, I only just caught on. Sarcasm detection skills failed me on that one.
     
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  4. gene0915
    This message by gene0915 has been removed from public view by Joe88, Jan 22, 2021.
    Jan 19, 2021
  5. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    Stop sharing FUD videos, with stock photos of physicians on the thumbnail. The zerohedge stuff we can at least discuss.. But the video just riles up.
    edit: Not so much to discuss -
    Specific lot means potential contamination, or production error - not 'vaccine suddently behaving in unexpected ways' (at least more likely than that). The Moderna Stuff was also the first vaccine that has reached my country, and we have had no problems administering it to people so far (finges crossed).

    So the world encompasing conspiracy theory - might be a little too large for this one.

    edit: Lot is quite sizeable though. 330000 doses.
    https://www.latimes.com/california/...na-vaccine-allergic-reaction-california-batch

    Effect:
    Slightly higher than expected rates of allergic reactions.

    Omg - world conspiracy! ;)

    edit: In numbers:
    They were vaccinating 5000 people (see latimes news) a day and less than 10 needed additional medical attention. (Probably meaning that they showed severe allergic reactions.)
    https://www.marinij.com/2021/01/18/...-allergic-reactions-to-moderna-vaccine-batch/ (source for the 10 figure)

    Still the safety procedure was triggered and they threw out all of the vaccine doses, that came from that batch. (Unsure if it would solve the 'issue', but doing it just in case - to minimize patient risk.)


    edit: On the Pfizer Biontech vaccine we have the expected rate of allergic reactions:
    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...a-show-allergic-reactions-covid-vaccines-cvd/

    Which is A LOT lower.

    edit: Moderna vaccine risk (expected rate of a severe allergic reaction) should also be around at 1:100000
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/alison...ot-with-higher-than-usual-allergic-reactions/
    so something went wrong here..

    Now I did a calculation on that 3% of the lifetime risk of dying form choking on food example.

    Not sure if I did it correctly, but if we go with 7 people of 5000 showed allergic reactions, this would be 4 times your lifetime risk of dying from choking on food.. ;)

    Still thats a lot higher allergic rate than expected. Keep an eye out if they notice the same with other batches as well. :)


    edit: Bad news: Age might be a factor here:

    Outch:
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ut-vaccine-related-deaths-allergies-quicktake
     
    Last edited by notimp, Jan 19, 2021
  6. gene0915
    This message by gene0915 has been removed from public view by Joe88, Jan 22, 2021.
    Jan 19, 2021
  7. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    Risk played up - for the staff its really close to nothing (if you dont find a second batch), for elederly folks taking the vaccine might be higher risk, maybe even up to 4x the risk of dying from choking on food in your lifetime, instead of only 3% of the risk of dying from choking on food in your lifetime.

    Show them a bunch of the videos you post, and they really might become afraid.

    At least I can tell you that the moderna vaccine also had to go through the european evaluation procedure - and we are also using it right now.

    But if you arent spreading fear - keep an eye out on how the 'pause' will be argued away in California, because imho there is something there. The 'something is wrong here' story is not entirely bogus. Just risk is still not as high as you perceive it. ;)

    Also those (less than ten, lets say seven) 7 out of 5000 people that had a severe allergic shock after getting the moderna vaccine, still have not died - so its probably max 2x the risk of dying from choking on food in your lifetime, not 4x. Or something like that.. ;)


    edit: This also potentially could be good news:
    from the source you linked.
     
    Last edited by notimp, Jan 19, 2021
  8. alexander1970

    alexander1970 Jodelhoiti....
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    How comes,that we do not read about the first deaths after Corona Vaccinations in this Thread......

    Ah....maybe because they were ONLY VERY OLD PEOPLE....I think.....
     
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  9. susi91

    susi91 GBAtemp Regular
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    Because that is always completely unrelated to the vaccine itself :D

    It's just about counting all deaths (somehow) related to covid 19 virus... ;)
     
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  10. alexander1970

    alexander1970 Jodelhoiti....
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    .....it should be mentioned,both Sides......not only the "Vaccination is super" (good).:)
     
    Last edited by alexander1970, Jan 20, 2021
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  11. susi91

    susi91 GBAtemp Regular
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    Yes :) and the manufacturer should take care of the product liability ;)
     
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  12. gene0915

    gene0915 GBAtemp Fan
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  13. gene0915

    gene0915 GBAtemp Fan
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    Guess the leadership in California is just begging for the return of super predato..... spreader events if they allow this:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/...outdoor-dining-ban-contributed-covid-19-surge

    Don't the talking heads realize how ZOMG deadly COVID-19 is? We're just scratching the surface of herd immunity with getting the DNA alter life saving vaccine out to everyone and they want to start allowing indoor dining??????????

    It's like COVID-19 had a shelf-life that expired on Jan 21. I wonder what event happened on Jan 20th to all of a sudden make COVID not so important and all the "experts" releasing talking points about getting people back to work and opening schools?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by gene0915, Jan 21, 2021
  14. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend
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    We are still very much in a deadly pandemic. Nothing changed January 20, other than having competent leadership in government now.

    The vaccine does not alter one's DNA.
     
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  15. gene0915

    gene0915 GBAtemp Fan
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    Then why are these Trump supporting maniacs like Lori Lightfoot talking about opening up restaurants??????????

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/coro...0210114-mh6chxizsfgnbkwkypf6iyk6mi-story.html

    .....doesn't she understand we are still very much in a deadly pandemic??????????????????

    And more insanity in other parts of the world: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-21/coronavirus-restrictions-ease-greater-brisbane-masks/13069830

    doesn't ANYONE understand we are still very much in a deadly pandemic???????????????????????????????????? Masks and vaccines for all until we don't record a single hospitalization/death from the super killer COVID-19 virus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111

    And I agree, having a completely competent politician like Joe Biden at the wheel will steer this country into the greatest era EVER! With control of the presidency and congress, democrats are destined to create a utopia for us all!!!!!!!!!!1111111111 Nothing but good times ahead!
     
  16. Valwinz

    Valwinz GBAtemp Regular
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    Nope till i see how it goes
     
  17. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend
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    Yesterday was the deadliest day yet with regard to COVID-19 in the United States. 4,409 Americans died of the disease yesterday. Approximately 400,000 Americans have died so far.

    Anecdotally, I've lost a great-aunt and a great-grandmother to the disease. A friend of mine lost an uncle the other day. Another friend of mine lost both parents. My coworker lost her mother. Don't be an asshole.
     
    Last edited by Lacius, Jan 21, 2021 - Reason: Typo
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  18. Valwinz

    Valwinz GBAtemp Regular
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    are we? cuz Cnn just remove the death counter as soon as Biden won
     
  19. Amez

    Amez Member
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    I'm undecided because I don't trust the rollout here in the UK.

    Personally I feel the priority for the vaccine should be hospital staff, police etc and key workers.

    Hospital staff = get close to Covid-19 every day.
    Police = go to break up parties which are attended by Covid is a hoaxers.

    If the hospital staff get ill, they can't work, they could possibly die, you can't just buy a new doctor or nurse and replace them within an hour,

    The police workers keep people safe and key workers, i/e care workers and supermarket workers are keeping the country going.

    Over 80's were vaccinated first, they've been told they still need to wear a mask, socially distance etc as even though the chances of them getting ill is reduced, they could still spread the virus to others, also there is a chunk of over 80's who don't go out a lot anyway and who have said the staying at home hasn't really affected them,

    So yeah to me the most logical thing to do would have been vaccinate the hospital workers first because we need them to be well and as safe as possible if we are to ever get out of this pandemic.

    I have nothing against the over 80's, my nan has had 2 doses of the Pfizer vaccine and I'm glad that there is less chance of her getting ill.

    But...they say it usually takes 10 years to develop a vaccine... so as this one has taken less than a year... I can't help but feel the over 80's are being used to test it.
     
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  20. Seliph
    This message by Seliph has been removed from public view by x65943, Jan 21, 2021, Reason: Off topic.
    Jan 21, 2021
  21. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend
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    I don't know what you're referring to, but:
    1. We are still in the midst of a deadly pandemic, absolutely regardless of what CNN does or doesn't do.
    2. CNN still has a COVID-19 death counter.
     
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  22. gene0915

    gene0915 GBAtemp Fan
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    I know you won't directly answer my questions because..... well, you know :) :) :) but I'll ask it anyway.

    Q. What's your thoughts on Trump supporting, ignorant fascists like Lori Lightfoot calling for opening up restaurants and bars while we're in the middle of the deadliest pandemic known to mankind?


    [​IMG]
     
  23. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend
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    We are in the middle of the deadliest part of this pandemic. We probably shouldn't be opening restaurants and bars. The death numbers in Chicago and Illinois broadly are falling, but that doesn't mean it's time to reopen restaurants and bars.
     
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