Joe Biden is now officially the 46th President of the United States of America

Plasmaster09 · Mar 11, 2021

tabzer said:
I would think that if voter ID is supposed to help prevent fraud, then more efforts should, instead, be made to expose the said fraud.

Efforts have been made to expose fraud that does not exist.
As everyone with more than three brain cells expected, none of them found any conclusive evidence of widespread voter fraud.
And thing is, your argument would be sound... if that was what they actually wanted voter ID laws for. But they don't.
They (or at least most of them by now) know the whole voter fraud thing is a crock of shit, and they just need to suppress enough minorities that they can get away with suppressing in order to fake a red wave in a couple years.

tabzer · Mar 11, 2021

Plasmaster09 said:
Efforts have been made to expose fraud that does not exist.
As everyone with more than three brain cells expected, none of them found any conclusive evidence of widespread voter fraud.
And thing is, your argument would be sound... if that was what they actually wanted voter ID laws for. But they don't.
They (or at least most of them by now) know the whole voter fraud thing is a crock of shit, and they just need to suppress enough minorities that they can get away with suppressing in order to fake a red wave in a couple years.

Or the uniparty just wants to keep their admin access over "democracy" and are just setting the stage for a narrative to continue the power creep.

Foxi4 · Mar 11, 2021

It really takes an American to logic their way into thinking that the government shouldn't require an ID if you want to participate in the democratic process. The average Liberal voter actually thinks that their peers are too poor, too stupid or too lazy to go to the DMV and acquire a piece of plastic that's required to purchase alcohol, cigarettes or drive a motor vehicle, which is a sad state of affairs. It's bigotry of low expectations - I fully believe that the elderly and minorities are capable of completing the arduous task of "filling out a form". You don't even need to "show up in person" to verify your ID either, we have this thing called cameras that are perfectly capable of taking a picture of your ID that you can then upload and send wherever it is required. The idea that I need ID to verify my identity on Boomerbook, but in theory I could show up at a voting booth and cast a vote without one is so colossally stupid that I can't adequately comment on it. Every single state in the union should issue *free* ID's to their constituents which would in turn make them eligible vote and use the state's various public resources and services. I cannot imagine a single genuine reason why one would oppose Voter ID besides purposefully enabling voting for those who aren't and shouldn't be eligible to do so.

smf · Mar 11, 2021

Foxi4 said:
It really takes an American to logic their way into thinking that the government shouldn't require an ID if you want to participate in the democratic process.

It depends on what you mean by "ID".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_identification_laws

If you mean you need to have paid for some expensive piece of ID, then that is going to exclude some people. If that ID is also produced by the government and they can delay issuing the ID to people based on their race or background ahead of an election then it's clearly going to lead to interfering with the election.

You're assuming that the voters are the ones most likely to commit fraud, but there is more evidence that Trump tried to interfere with voting. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-states-election-funding-mail-in-ballot-plans

So sure, come up with a way that doesn't disadvantage anyone and you can remove the statistically insignificant amount of voting fraud. But what the republicans are doing is like blasting yourself in the face with a shotgun to get rid of acne. Sure the acne is gone, but it's on the wall with the rest of your face.

The next thing they'll say is that to make sure there is no election fraud they won't bother holding an election.

Foxi4 · Mar 11, 2021

smf said:
It depends on what you mean by "ID".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_identification_laws

If you mean you need to have paid for some expensive piece of ID, then that is going to exclude some people. If that ID is also produced by the government and they can delay issuing the ID to people based on their race or background ahead of an election then it's clearly going to lead to interfering with the election.

You're assuming that the voters are the ones most likely to commit fraud, but there is more evidence that Trump tried to interfere with voting. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-states-election-funding-mail-in-ballot-plans

So sure, come up with a way that doesn't disadvantage anyone and you can remove the statistically insignificant amount of voting fraud. But what the republicans are doing is like blasting yourself in the face with a shotgun to get rid of acne.

By ID I mean a piece of plastic issued by the government that contains adequate security features and enables a government official to identify you, ideally issued for free upon reaching whatever age the state considers to be "mature enough" to participate, which is the standard in the rest of the civilised world. I'm not interested in any conspiracy theories regarding how it would "exclude some voters", and I'm going to call them that because that's what they are.

tabzer · Mar 11, 2021

Government is a "necessary" conspiracy. Don't forget your roots.

Valwinz · Mar 11, 2021

AHAHAHAH
Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/QuarantinedCoof/status/1370027968668467208

djpannda · Mar 11, 2021

Valwinz said:
AHAHAHAH
https://twitter.com/QuarantinedCoof/status/1370027968668467208

...I can see you don't live in the Hood. Cops stopped visit bad neighborhoods since the 80s.... Thats why some people don't call cops it takes 3 hours for them to drive 5 blocks.

Valwinz · Mar 11, 2021

djpannda said:
...I can see you don't live in the Hood. Cops stopped visit bad neighborhoods since the 80s.... Thats why some people don't call cops it takes 3 hours for them to drive 5 blocks.

Defending Bidens America

Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/QuarantinedCoof/status/1370030714176102401

djpannda · Mar 11, 2021

Foxi4 said:
By ID I mean a piece of plastic issued by the government that contains adequate security features and enables a government official to identify you, ideally issued for free upon reaching whatever age the state considers to be "mature enough" to participate, which is the standard in the rest of the civilised world. I'm not interested in any conspiracy theories regarding how it would "exclude some voters", and I'm going to call them that because that's what they are.

oh you mean like....a Driver/State ID.. we already have that...when Republicans say "voter ID" they refer to additional ID, that purposely imposes hurdles that low Income/Minorities people don't have time for and give up ( additional long form Birth Cert, proof of utilities under your name (when some apartments include utilities). Bank statements when some low income people work for cash. Multiple visits for the 1. to apply 2. fingerprint. 3. photo. 4 pick/ wait 3 weeks for it to be mailed.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Valwinz said:
Defending Bidens America

https://twitter.com/QuarantinedCoof/status/1370030714176102401

lol love the fact you retweeting Radom people

Foxi4 · Mar 11, 2021

djpannda said:
oh you mean like....a Driver/State ID.. we already have that...when Republicans say "voter ID" they refer to additional ID, that purposely imposes hurdles that low Income/Minorities people don't have time for and give up ( additional long form Birth Cert, proof of utilities under your name (when some apartments include utilities). Bank statements when some low income people work for cash. Multiple visits for the 1. to apply 2. fingerprint. 3. photo. 4 pick/ wait 3 weeks for it to be mailed.

lol love the fact you retweeting Radom people

In many states you are not required to be a citizen in order to obtain a driver's license.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver's_licenses_for_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States

Moreover, driver's licenses are available to people who are not eligible to vote, including felons. Using a driver's license alone would be ineffective in its current per-state implementation, it would have to be a federal document. It also excludes those who do not drive from participating in the election. With that being said, a driver's license would be a good start - it's something as opposed to nothing.

I don't buy the excuses - if you're unwilling to sort out something as simple as an ID, you shouldn't be voting. I still remember when I got my EAA ID - I had my 18th birthday, I had my picture taken, took the photo to the city hall, plopped down $15 or so and in a few weeks I had my ID, valid for years to come. I only had to replace it recently, last year, I think.

They should ID voters before ballots are cast - driver's license, ID card, passport, it doesn't matter as long as it's secure. There's zero reason not to besides mental gymnastics in opposition to make-believe obstacles.

djpannda · Mar 11, 2021

Foxi4 said:
In many states you are not required to be a citizen in order to obtain a driver's license.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver's_licenses_for_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States

Moreover, driver's licenses are available to people who are not eligible to vote, including felons. Using a driver's license alone would be ineffective in its current per-state implementation, it would have to be a federal document. It also excludes those who do not drive from participating in the election. With that being said, a driver's license would be a good start - it's something as opposed to nothing.

I don't buy the excuses - if you're unwilling to sort out something as simple as an ID, you shouldn't be voting. I still remember when I got my EAA ID - I had my 18th birthday, I had my picture taken, took the photo to the city hall, plopped down $15 or so and in a few weeks I had my ID, valid for years to come. I only had to replace it recently, last year, I think.

They should ID voters before ballots are cast - driver's license, ID card, passport, it doesn't matter as long as it's secure. There's zero reason not to besides mental gymnastics in opposition to make-believe obstacles.

The issue is you are overestimating American Bureaucracy.When I needed a State level certification, I had 3 different visits ( to apply finger printer and then photo, as they stated photo and fingerprint were different departments and I needed separate appointments for each. Every unnecessary hurdle disenfranchises thousands of citizens to vote.
Plus yea. You don't need to be a citizen to get a driver license but this question is included in most Driver license form/renewal " are you a US citizen?". and its not an optional question. Plus as any Cop would tell you your driver license is connected to a national database showing history/citizenship/aliases /crimes. It would be easy to connected voter registration to the national data base . and the fact that multiple states (mine) already requested driver license to register to vote to verify.
Proving your citizen, 4 different times is insulting. especially when Most of those "requirements" are placed on minorities.
In 2016, out of everyone what was requested to proof citizenship while voting, 80% were Minorities
Those "Measure" were not for White America.
https://www.americanbar.org/groups/...y-minority-voters-have-a-lower-voter-turnout/

Foxi4 · Mar 11, 2021

djpannda said:
The issue is you are overestimating American Bureaucracy.When I needed a State level certification, I had 3 different visits ( to apply finger printer and then photo, as they stated photo and fingerprint were different departments and I needed separate appointments for each. Every unnecessary hurdle disenfranchises thousands of citizens to vote.
Plus yea. You don't need to be a citizen to get a driver license but this question is included in most Driver license form/renewal " are you a US citizen?". and its not an optional question. Plus as any Cop would tell you your driver license is connected to a national database showing history/citizenship/aliases /crimes. It would be easy to connected voter registration to the national data base . and the fact that multiple states (mine) already requested driver license to register to vote to verify.
Proving your citizen, 4 different times is insulting. especially when Most of those "requirements" are placed on minorities.
In 2016, out of everyone what was requested to proof citizenship while voting, 80% were Minorities
Those "Measure" were not for White America.
https://www.americanbar.org/groups/...y-minority-voters-have-a-lower-voter-turnout/

Oh, I am not overestimating anything. The government sucks and everything it touches is immediately inefficient and crap, but that issue isn't unique to the states.

Kurt91 · Mar 11, 2021

I had to go get my passport replaced back on Tuesday. Admittedly, my sister helped me with a lot of the work like filling out forms and getting a money order to pay for it (Don't know why they don't take cash for that particular fee), but other than a birth certificate and photocopy of my State ID (I don't have a driver's license), that's all they really wanted. Rode the bus to the Post Office with all my stuff in an envelope, got my picture taken for the passport, and was in and out in about 25-30 minutes. Just have to wait a week or two for the passport to be made and mailed to me along with getting my birth certificate back. (Don't know why they needed to keep the official one instead of the photocopy I had with me, but they took the original and said it'll be mailed back with my new passport.)

To be completely fair regarding the experience, I live in a fairly small college town (Look up "Eastern Washington University" to get an idea) instead of a big city. My sister helped me with the process, like I said earlier. Yes, I had to wait for my turn to enter the lobby, since they had a 3-people-at-once rule because of COVID. Other than that, like I said, it was fairly quick and painless, at around 25-30 minutes. I had more trouble with the bus ride to get to my appointment because I forgot my ID back at the dorm building the first time around, and since I'd never been to the post office before, I didn't see it and missed my stop and had to backtrack a couple blocks on-foot.

Still, I'd imagine if a Driver's License or State ID isn't good enough to act as Voter ID, getting a Voter ID would be a similar or identical process to getting a passport, right?

djpannda · Mar 11, 2021

We can Word it any way we can but
These restriction are not for the legality of the votes but as Republicans stated "quality of votes"

Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1370077390282616836
P.S. Quality usually means areas where minorities don't vote.

smf · Mar 11, 2021

Foxi4 said:
By ID I mean a piece of plastic issued by the government that contains adequate security features and enables a government official to identify you, ideally issued for free upon reaching whatever age the state considers to be "mature enough" to participate, which is the standard in the rest of the civilised world.

How do you deal with people fraudulently obtaining ID?

Foxi4 said:
I'm not interested in any conspiracy theories regarding how it would "exclude some voters", and I'm going to call them that because that's what they are.

How surprising, of course you'll entertain the conspiracy theories that it's actually worth the effort to make these changes, but you won't entertain the facts of the negative effects. Because things you don't like are conspiracy theories.

djpannda said:
We can Word it any way we can but
These restriction are not for the legality of the votes but as Republicans stated "quality of votes"

Weird, if they improve the quality of votes then the republicans will NEVER get voted in again.

Xzi · Mar 11, 2021

Foxi4 said:
It really takes an American to logic their way into thinking that the government shouldn't require an ID if you want to participate in the democratic process.

Don't the vast majority of European countries (and other first-world countries) have universal mail-in voting? That's by far the most common sense method of dealing with millions of ballots. Besides, all your information is verified when you register to vote in the US, there's no reason to require ID every time you show up to vote as well, that's just another layer of pointless bureaucracy/red tape.

smf · Mar 11, 2021

djpannda said:
oh you mean like....a Driver/State ID.. we already have that...when Republicans say "voter ID" they refer to additional ID,

Or facial recognition....

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/09/technology/facial-recognition-race-artificial-intelligence.html

Facial Recognition Is Accurate, if You’re a White Guy

Foxi4 · Mar 11, 2021

smf said:
How do you deal with people fraudulently obtaining ID?

You put them in prison for fraud. Forging ID's is a felony, and making a fake one that would pass the rather stringent modern security checks is no small feat - pretty much impossible to nail for a counterfeiter.

How surprising, of course you'll entertain the conspiracy theories that it's actually worth the effort to make these changes, but you won't entertain the facts of the negative effects. Because things you don't like are conspiracy theories.

Failing to implement basic security measures present around the world that improve the integrity of the democratic process on the basis of completely imaginary outcomes because of a deeply-held belief that a cabal of politicians wants brown people to stop voting is the definition of a conspiracy theory. I'm not sure who's more racist here - the people who expect voters to have some pretty basic competence in regards to filling out a form or the camp that maintains they're presumably too stupid to do so. Asking for ID is not a high bar.

Xzi said:
Don't the vast majority of European countries (and other first-world countries) have universal mail-in voting? That's by far the most common sense method of dealing with millions of ballots. Besides, all your information is verified when you register to vote in the US, there's no reason to require ID every time you show up to vote as well, that's just another layer of pointless bureaucracy/red tape.

Only upon request in the countries I've lived in, I would have to check how it looks like across the continent. Unsolicited ballots are most definitely unprecedented - in the UK I have to register to vote each year, but nobody's forcing me *or* facilitating anything - I have to choose to vote and enact the effort (which I don't since pretty much all the parties suck in one way or another and I can't support any of them). In regards to identity checks during registration, that's insufficient in my estimation - identification should be checked when the ballot is cast to prevent any third-parties from casting a ballot on your behalf without authorisation. Not only that, people don't always update their registration - according to Pew Research, there are 1.8 million dead voters registered nationally, and another 3 million voters registered in multiple states. Again, asking for photo ID is not a high bar, it's actually pretty darn basic. You need one to drive, you need one to buy a drink in a bar, you need one to buy a pack of cigarettes, but you know when you don't need one? When you're voting for the most powerful person on the planet who will be in charge of a nuclear superpower for the next 4 years. For an outsider like myself your entire process is completely asinine.

Xzi · Mar 11, 2021

Foxi4 said:
Again, asking for photo ID is not a high bar, it's actually pretty darn basic. You need one to drive, you need one to buy a drink in a bar, you need one to buy a pack of cigarettes, but you know when you don't need one? When you're voting for the most powerful person on the planet who will be in charge of a nuclear superpower for the next 4 years. For an outsider like myself your entire process is completely asinine.

It would be a bigger priority if we actually had a problem with wide-scale voter fraud. Even as far back as two or three decades ago the numbers have remained fairly consistent, we get roughly 10-20 cases of verified voter fraud each election cycle. When you're trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist there's usually an ulterior motive involved, and Republicans have definitely done their research on who voter ID laws are most likely to impact, and where they live.

I'd be a little less cynical if Republicans were also making a big push to guard against election fraud, but I haven't heard a peep from them in that regard. This isn't about ensuring elections remain free and fair, it's about ensuring the minority party still has a path to victory no matter how unpopular their platform and ideas become.

Joe Biden is now officially the 46th President of the United States of America

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