Hacking Nintendo Switch Banning Hub & Warning

Draxzelex · May 21, 2019

Moehammered said:
So if I'm gathering this right, the logs are irrelevant and it's mainly not leaving traces of cfw usage before continuing online usage. Trying to clear the logs is only going to show signs of it being tampered with as it can't wipe all traces.

Then, being on ofw 8.x playing online. Restoring nand to clean 3.x and updating backup to 8.x ofw and playing online is assumed as safe due to no cfw trace.

I'm very curious to read the finer details if I could be redirected towards a technical write up. Mainly I'm curious (and might attempt with my own switch) what happens if I factory reset a "dirty nand" backup and use it as a base. I have a 3.x nand backup that I made after I had tinkered with pegaswitch to run homebrew launcher. It crashed a few times too setting up pegaswitch usually.

I have yet to be banned, waiting on emunand.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

This tweet from SciresM shows how clearing error logs via nx-dreport can be considered unsafe which is why the author eventually depreciated the tool.

5.0.0 really upped the info in Crash Reports: https://t.co/lp9eRpva59.

Be careful with tools like dreport, too, it looks like erpt maintains statistics about reports saved/uploaded/failed to upload, deleting may cause detectably inconsistent statistics.
— Michael (@SciresM) June 25, 2018

Also factory resets don't remove all traces of CFW/homebrew in your system. If you mount your NAND via hacdiskmount after performing a factory reset, you can see how many files stay after the reset.

Moehammered · May 21, 2019

Thank you for that, the switch brew link was what I was after.

Also I like the idea of comparing nands in hacdiskmount. I'll look into it myself on the weekend.

1 last thing I'm not yet grasping. This hypothetical situation is what I can't grasp well.
Lets say:
Nand backup 3.x clean, last online 2018 November.
Current switch 8.x ofw (clean, no cfw usage), last online 2019 May.

Wouldn't restoring the nand backup and going online be dangerous as the last reported data from the switch when it was online doesn't match? As mentioned it's like a time machine, but isn't that a red flag to Nintendo too?

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

Draxzelex · May 21, 2019

Moehammered said:
Thank you for that, the switch brew link was what I was after.

Also I like the idea of comparing nands in hacdiskmount. I'll look into it myself on the weekend.

1 last thing I'm not yet grasping. This hypothetical situation is what I can't grasp well.
Lets say:
Nand backup 3.x clean, last online 2018 November.
Current switch 8.x ofw (clean, no cfw usage), last online 2019 May.

Wouldn't restoring the nand backup and going online be dangerous as the last reported data from the switch when it was online doesn't match? As mentioned it's like a time machine, but isn't that a red flag to Nintendo too?

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

Yes which is typically why if you're trying to restore a clean NAND, its better you never go online from that point onwards otherwise the next time you go online, Nintendo has a set expectation of what your NAND should look like so if you revert to a state that doesn't match what is on their records, you may be setting yourself up for a ban.

Moehammered · May 21, 2019

Alrighty all understood. Thanks for clarifying it all. My main assumptions about clean nand and online continuity were correct then.
In a nutshell then, one who'd want to ping pong back and forth between cfw and clean ofw needs to make sure to take updated nand backups of their clean nand every time before using cfw to maintain as low a risk as possible of flagging themselves.

wormyrocks · May 22, 2019

Hi,

To date, has anyone been banned for using non-Horizon CFW (ie, Lakka or other L4T derivatives?)

ZachyCatGames · May 22, 2019

wormyrocks said:
Hi,

To date, has anyone been banned for using non-Horizon CFW (ie, Lakka or other L4T derivatives?)

Nope, Linux stuff isn’t detectable

epicmartin7 · May 23, 2019

Draxzelex said:
They aren't connected by the firmware. SysNAND and EmuNAND can be on completely different firmware versions. That is one of the points of EmuNAND; being a completely separate entity from SysNAND.

I know I'm two pages late, but I wanted to clear something up. EmuNAND is arguably a more convenient solution than just using your regular sysNAND all the time. However, that doesn't make you 100% safe.

You go online on emuNAND, you have the same amount of risks involved as going online in sysNAND. Now, it might be weird saying that, but there is a reason.

The NAND partition that gets cloned doesn't change anything. Your serial ID, and your NAND information all stay the same. So if you go online on emuNAND and you do something that Nintendo catches, they will ban that ID. But not only will it ban your emuNAND, but it'll also ban your sysNAND as a result.

The only way to get a NAND partition with a different ID is to just simply buy another Switch sadly.

So is emuNAND arguably "safer"? I... wouldn't say so. However, it is more convenient since you can easily keep that portion offline with ease.

Draxzelex · May 23, 2019

epicmartin7 said:
I know I'm two pages late, but I wanted to clear something up. EmuNAND is arguably a more convenient solution than just using your regular sysNAND all the time. However, that doesn't make you 100% safe.

You go online on emuNAND, you have the same amount of risks involved as going online in sysNAND. Now, it might be weird saying that, but there is a reason.

The NAND partition that gets cloned doesn't change anything. Your serial ID, and your NAND information all stay the same. So if you go online on emuNAND and you do something that Nintendo catches, they will ban that ID. But not only will it ban your emuNAND, but it'll also ban your sysNAND as a result.

The only way to get a NAND partition with a different ID is to just simply buy another Switch sadly.

So is emuNAND arguably "safer"? I... wouldn't say so. However, it is more convenient since you can easily keep that portion offline with ease.

Well, the context of the post you quoted was from a discussion about a completely different, albeit stupid and uneducated, point.

Is EmuNAND "safer" than constantly flashing a clean NAND? I can argue no but not for the reasons people think. While you can go online with either SysNAND or EmuNAND, tools that completely block Nintendo's online functionality (e.g. 90DNS, Stealth Mode, Incognito) can become very useful when combined with EmuNAND versus without it. Without EmuNAND, you would have to constantly enable and disable said tool which can lead to a mistake of accidentally connecting the console online before you have a chance to restore a clean NAND. However since EmuNAND serves as a separate environment from SysNAND, one can theoretically just enable a Nintendo online blocking application once in EmuNAND and leave it enabled forever reducing the risk of EmuNAND connecting online immensely. Technically, using EmuNAND or flashing a clean NAND dump still share the same risks but this little caveat not only gives EmuNAND a slight boost but makes these blockers actually useful.

RareKirby · May 24, 2019

I thought this was worth mentioning. I'm connected to a DNS server. It was never guarantee that it can avoid bans until now. I have never gotten ban and I use atmosphere and xecuter and yes I do play online. My switch is old as they come. Sadly I found this out because everyone I played with are now banned. Reason ''playing with a hacker'' it isn't fair tbh. I should of been banned not them. But i'm safe

Pola92 · May 24, 2019

Draxzelex said:
Yes which is typically why if you're trying to restore a clean NAND, its better you never go online from that point onwards otherwise the next time you go online, Nintendo has a set expectation of what your NAND should look like so if you revert to a state that doesn't match what is on their records, you may be setting yourself up for a ban.

How certain do you think a ban would be? Because I restored my clean backup went online, and then forgot to back up my Nand again. I restored the clean back up again and everything seemed alright...

Draxzelex · May 25, 2019

Pola92 said:
How certain do you think a ban would be? Because I restored my clean backup went online, and then forgot to back up my Nand again. I restored the clean back up again and everything seemed alright...

If not much has changed between the two times you restored your clean NAND dump, then you will be fine. If not, well its in Nintendo's hands now.

Dax_Fame · May 25, 2019

Once they decide to look at the contents of SD cards or the boot1 it's curtains.
Chances are abysmal, yes, but all it takes is for them to implement a check which can be easily done, especially since the information on exactly what to look for is not hard to find.
Until there is a 100% perfect separation between the 2 it's not worth the risk to have YET ANOTHER device running retroarch and doom lol
I've had my SX OS since the beginning of time and finally decided to set it up with emunand being out for so long and it SEEMINGLY not modifying anything until I found out about the little boot1 tweak.
I have way too much invested to get banned. I can't wait for the day I can freely tinker with this thing without having to worry... perhaps after migrating to the rumored improved console?

a2a · May 25, 2019

Dax_Fame said:
I've had my SX OS since the beginning of time and finally decided to set it up with emunand being out for so long and it SEEMINGLY not modifying anything until I found out about the little boot1 tweak.

Outdated information — with Emunand on SD card as files, no more boot1 modification (anyone can correct me if wrong, but that’s what seems to be commonly understood when you read into it).

Dax_Fame · May 25, 2019

a2a said:
Outdated information — with Emunand on SD card as files, no more boot1 modification (anyone can correct me if wrong, but that’s what seems to be commonly understood when you read into it).

Huh.. I have been feverishly looking into this and can't find anything other than the boot1 modification.. I'm not saying you're incorrect, I hope to God you are right! I guess I'll look a bit more.. If I don't find anything and no one confirms I guess I can setup emunand and restore my boot1 to see what happens.

Thanks

ZachyCatGames · May 26, 2019

Dax_Fame said:
Once they decide to look at the contents of SD cards or the boot1 it's curtains.
Chances are abysmal, yes, but all it takes is for them to implement a check which can be easily done, especially since the information on exactly what to look for is not hard to find.
Until there is a 100% perfect separation between the 2 it's not worth the risk to have YET ANOTHER device running retroarch and doom lol
I've had my SX OS since the beginning of time and finally decided to set it up with emunand being out for so long and it SEEMINGLY not modifying anything until I found out about the little boot1 tweak.
I have way too much invested to get banned. I can't wait for the day I can freely tinker with this thing without having to worry... perhaps after migrating to the rumored improved console?

Then we could just patch out the checks or use fsmitm to hide the files. Ez ~~I mean patching FS isn't the simplest thing, but you get my point~~

Dax_Fame · May 26, 2019

ZachyCatGames said:
Then we could just patch out the checks or use fsmitm to hide the files. Ez ~~I mean patching FS isn't the simplest thing, but you get my point~~

But what about those who keep their sysnand clean, like myself? The second you boot if such a check exists (for the contents of SD card) you'd be done for.

I suppose the hidden partition/separate sdcard for naughty stuff is the best option.

I also confirmed (I think, no promises) there is no longer any modification to boot1. After setting up emunand I restored clean boot0 and boot1 and it works just fine.

Draxzelex · May 27, 2019

Dax_Fame said:
But what about those who keep their sysnand clean, like myself? The second you boot if such a check exists (for the contents of SD card) you'd be done for.

I suppose the hidden partition/separate sdcard for naughty stuff is the best option.

I also confirmed (I think, no promises) there is no longer any modification to boot1. After setting up emunand I restored clean boot0 and boot1 and it works just fine.

You're imagining an unlikely scenario. Not to mention that every single person would get banned if Nintendo did this, there are potential legal issues with Nintendo checking the contents of SD cards. For example, people may keep private content on their which Nintendo may run into problems if they are caught scanning these.

Dax_Fame · May 27, 2019

Draxzelex said:
You're imagining an unlikely scenario. Not to mention that every single person would get banned if Nintendo did this, there are potential legal issues with Nintendo checking the contents of SD cards. For example, people may keep private content on their which Nintendo may run into problems if they are caught scanning these.

I'm not talking checking the actual contents, just a quick directory check would do the trick... Would they necessarily have to say they're doing that? I'm sure they could bury something in the EULA lol

I doubt many people are keeping family photos and work documents on the root of their Switch SD in a folder called "sxos"

But I don't know a damn thing about laws or any crap like this... I'm just some paranoid twonk. No one listen to anything in saying.

Draxzelex · May 27, 2019

Dax_Fame said:
I'm not talking checking the actual contents, just a quick directory check would do the trick... Would they necessarily have to say they're doing that? I'm sure they could bury something in the EULA lol

I doubt many people are keeping family photos and work documents on the root of their Switch SD in a folder called "sxos"

But I don't know a damn thing about laws or any crap like this... I'm just some paranoid twonk. No one listen to anything in saying.

They can easily check and ban for stuff outside of the /sxos folder. Also, some people could easily be unorganized and either keep it in the /sxos folder or elsewhere on the card. Finally, remember that the EULA is not above the law. Everything in the EULA has to be legal.

chrisrlink · May 28, 2019

RareKirby said:
I thought this was worth mentioning. I'm connected to a DNS server. It was never guarantee that it can avoid bans until now. I have never gotten ban and I use atmosphere and xecuter and yes I do play online. My switch is old as they come. Sadly I found this out because everyone I played with are now banned. Reason ''playing with a hacker'' it isn't fair tbh. I should of been banned not them. But i'm safe

that shouldn't be even legal as long as the other switches's aren't hacked (no way to verify on your end maybe they are) then again i seen stupid shit by the law like buying stolen goods without knowlege of them being stolen (same principal here so it wouldn't supprise me if they did something that stupid and get sued sooner or later)

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