Opinions re: ANTIFA?

Xzi · Oct 9, 2018

PanTheFaun said:
It was a mistake to allow the slaves here but like I have said before the slaves were meant to just work for us and never be citizens and meant to be deported.

Right, they were "meant" to remain slaves until they were all very near death, then deported.

If you want to remain a white European nation, that means it's white Europeans who would have to do all the work. It's because they took the easy out and used slave labor instead that they killed their own vision for this country.

PanTheFaun · Oct 9, 2018

Eddypikachu said:
America was already inhabited by Native Americans way before europeans or anyone else came to North America, why is it that native americans have to be forcefully moved from their native lands?

And the Ainu inhabited Japan before the Japanese came there and the Japanese took over. What's your point? Different peoples fight for land and win them over. The difference here is that when Europeans did it it was to colonize and such but this is being done systematically.

kumikochan · Oct 9, 2018

Eddypikachu said:
America was already inhabited by Native Americans way before europeans or anyone else came to North America, why is it that native americans have to be forcefully moved from their native lands?

Politics wise they didn't. There wasn't a country to begin with so politics wise Europeans thought they were not doing anything wrong. Also a lot of native americans sold their land against a small portion wich they thought was a good deal but it wasn't.

Attacker3 · Oct 9, 2018

kumikochan said:
I don't think there was such a thing as human rights back then. Well depends when tho since the first decleration was in 1776 but that wasn't really enforced

The concept of human rights started forming in 1715ish and was caused by the Enlightenment. Of course, it took a while for these things to take root, and it grew throughout the century as philosophers debated on what it meant to have human rights. It's not that human rights don't exist, it's just that nobody had even considered that human rights might exist in the first place. It was a foreign concept that ended up with the US declaring independence and many wars in Europe against the monarchs. The freeing of the slaves came later, because of many deep rooted expectations and such. Considering that the freeing of slaves happened quite soon after (except in confederate states), people were quite quick to realize that African slaves were people too. Slavery in the US was fairly quickly abolished in many of the states, and then in order to get the confederates to stop they had to bypass the 10th amendment that limits the federal government's power. And that little civil war... almost forgot that...

The thing is, the day America died was the day that the Union armies trampled all over the confederate states' right to rule themselves.

Eddypikachu said:
America was already inhabited by Native Americans way before europeans or anyone else came to North America, why is it that native americans have to be forcefully moved from their native lands?

This argument is based on the idea of private property, and I'm sorry, in order to actually own previously unowned land, you have to work and improve the land and stay on it, which most tribes did not do. They moved around, forfeiting any land they could have owned. Some actually stayed in one spot and I really disagree with them being taken out, but many of the other tribes had no land that could be taken at all.

Eddypikachu · Oct 9, 2018

PanTheFaun said:
And the Ainu inhabited Japan for the Japanese came there and the Japanese took over. What's your point? Different peoples fight for land and win them over. The difference here is that when Europeans did it it was for conquest and such but this is being done systematically.

Like to say that america was ONLY a european nation is ahistoric because there have been multiple multiple people from different countries migrating over to the US obtain land.

kumikochan · Oct 9, 2018

Attacker3 said:
The concept of human rights started forming in 1715ish and was caused by the Enlightenment. Of course, it took a while for these things to take root, and it grew throughout the century as philosophers debated on what it meant to have human rights. It's not that human rights don't exist, it's just that nobody had even considered that human rights might exist in the first place. It was a foreign concept that ended up with the US declaring independence and many wars in Europe against the monarchs. The freeing of the slaves came later, because of many deep rooted expectations and such. Considering that the freeing of slaves happened quite soon after (except in confederate states), people were quite quick to realize that African slaves were people too. Slavery in the US was fairly quickly abolished in many of the states, and then in order to get the confederates to stop they had to bypass the 10th amendment that limits the federal government's power. And that little civil war... almost forgot that...

The thing is, the day America died was the day that the Union armies trampled all over the confederate states' right to rule themselves.

This argument is based on the idea of private property, and I'm sorry, in order to actually own previously unowned land, you have to work and improve the land and stay on it, which most tribes did not do. They moved around, forfeiting any land they could have owned. Some actually stayed in one spot and I really disagree with them being taken out, but many of the other tribes had no land that could be taken at all.

It was established in other countries but not in the states since the first written decleration was made in 1776. Also that decleration didn't talk about human rights but that all were equal and freedom and all of that. As long as it wasn't written and signed there wasn't a law to begin with really

Xzi · Oct 9, 2018

Attacker3 said:
The thing is, the day America died was the day that the Union armies trampled all over the confederate states' right to rule themselves.

You mean they trampled over their "right" to own slaves. Which never should've been a right in America to begin with.

Subtle Demise · Oct 9, 2018

kumikochan said:
I don't fully agree with that. Not so long ago there was an article in the news paper here about a guy who worked as a busdriver for over 30 years. Never were any complaints about him and people of all colour said he was a great human being and a nice busdriver untill there was an office party and he showed up with a t-shirt instead of his regular bus clothing and he got fired because he had the German eagle wich is a reference to Nazi gerrmany as a tattoo on his arm and he got fired because of that. I don't agree with that tattoo but there was no reason to fire that guy while there were never any complaints about him and he did his job the best he could and was good at it. So you agree that a person like that should be fired for having a tattoo that he covered up all his entire life but not in his free time ? Not saying you do but i was wondering

I was actually thinking more along the lines of the hardcore skinheads and Klansmen are the ones that need ostricized. I don't agree with ruining a guy's life over a tattoo he probably got as a teenager to be edgy.

PanTheFaun · Oct 9, 2018

Eddypikachu said:
Like to say that america was ONLY a european nation is ahistoric because there have been multiple multiple people from different countries migrating over to the US obtain land.

America is a European nation because before Europeans colonized there was no America. It was a society built for Europeans.

kumikochan · Oct 9, 2018

PanTheFaun said:
America is a European nation because before Europeans colonized there was no America. It was a society built for Europeans.

Well i agree with a lot of stuff you said on here but i don't agree with that. You have American culture and identity and you have European culture and identity wich aren't alike at all anymore. America and Europe is both considered the west but they're not alike at all. I see more and more fighting between Europeans and Americans wich is because of that culture clash between the 2. Both continents are getting less and less alike

Attacker3 · Oct 9, 2018

kumikochan said:
It was established in other countries but not in the states since the first written decleration was made in 1776. Also that decleration didn't talk about human rights but that all were equal and freedom and all of that

Xzi said:
You mean they trampled over their "right" to own slaves. Which never should've been a right in America to begin with.

Sure and you can argue that, but they did have a right to own slaves in those states. I disagree with it, but sooner rather than later they would have abolished it too due to social pressures within the state and from outside of the state. No need for a war.

PanTheFaun · Oct 9, 2018

kumikochan said:
Well i agree with a lot of stuff you said on here but i don't agree with that. You have American culture and identity and you have European culture and identity wich aren't alike at all anymore. America and Europe is both considered the west but they're not alike at all.

The Europeans that came here based a society that was similar to Europe such as morals and values but also made a new culture that would make it much more prosperous and free than Europe.

SG854 · Oct 9, 2018

kumikochan said:
I don't think there was such a thing as human rights back then. Well depends when tho since the first decleration was in 1776 but that wasn't really enforced

Native Americans were enslaving and killing each other way before Whites set foot on American land. 95% of the Native American population was wiped out through diseases brought from Europe. So Whites did not commit mass genocide. And many times Native Americans teamed up with Whites to take revenge or to conquer other Native American Tribes. Cortez had about 500 conquistadors, while 50,000 Native Americans joined him to conquer the Aztecs. Human Sacrifice on War Captives, Aztecs weren't peaceful themselves. Both Whites and Indians were brutal.

Read any history book and you'll see that slavey is told in a lopsided way in mainstream media. Every race was a slave. Slavery was commonly practiced in the world. No one really questioned it until the 18th century. Europeans were the first. White's also ended slavery for much of the world. Not just in European countries but in non European countries also.

The only reason they were able to accomplished this was because they had more advance gun powder weapons. And because of colonization they controlled about 1/4 of the world. Europeans went on a mission to end slavery around the world and it took them over 100 years to do it because non western countries still wanted slavery. Slavery still exists in places they were unable to end it, but a lot less then if they decided to do nothing.

Eddypikachu · Oct 9, 2018

PanTheFaun said:
America is a European nation because before Europeans colonized there was no America. It was a society built for Europeans.

It was a society that was built around the idea "that all man are created equal" not for just Europeans.

PanTheFaun · Oct 9, 2018

Eddypikachu said:
It was a society that was built around the idea "that every man are created equal" not for just Europeans.

When they said that all men are created equal they meant Europeans. All men are equal but they owned slaves? Watch the video to answer that question

kumikochan · Oct 9, 2018

SG854 said:
Native Americans were enslaving and killing each other way before Whites set foot on American land. 95% of the Native American population was wiped out through diseases brought from Europe. So Whites did not commit mass genocide. And many times Native Americans teamed up with Whites to take revenge or to conquer other Native American Tribes. Cortez had about 500 conquistadors, while 50,000 Native Americans joined him to conquer the Aztecs. Human Sacrifice on War Captives, Aztecs weren't peaceful themselves. Both Whites and Indians were brutal.

Read any history book and you'll see that slavey is told in a lopsided way in mainstream media. Every race was a slave. Slavery was commonly practiced in the world. No one really questioned it until the 18th century. Europeans were the first. White's also ended slavery for much of the world. Not just in European countries but in non European countries also.

The only reason they were able to accomplished this was because they had more advance gun powder weapons. And because of colonization they controlled about 1/4 of the world. Europeans went on a mission to end slavery around the world and it took them over 100 years to do it because non western countries still wanted slavery. Slavery still exists in places they were unable to end it, but a lot less then if they decided to do nothing.

Did you also know there weren't any bee's in the US before the Spanish came to the continent. They used to have it but became extinct many many ages ago but Europeans took them accidently to the states. Just a fun fact for the people always claiming the world would die without bee's

spAik · Oct 9, 2018

@BORTZ @Issac @tj_cool @Depravo

SG854 · Oct 9, 2018

kumikochan said:
Did you also know there weren't any bee's in the US before the Spanish came to the continent. They used to have it but became extinct many many ages ago but Europeans took them accidently to the states. Just a fun fact for the people always claiming the world would die without bee's

Here'a a bit of History of Europeans trying to end slavery around the world.

British Navy went into Brazilian waters to destroy Brazilian Slave Ships. British pressured the Ottoman Empire to Ban the African Slave trade, and boarded their ships if they didn't do a good job enforcing the ban. Americans ended slavery in the Philippines. The Dutch stamped it out in Indonesia. Russians in Central Asia. French in their West African and Caribbean Colonies. Germans in East African Colonies and they hung slave traders if they caught them in the act. 1873 British ships threatened to blockade the Island of Zanzibar unless they ended the slave market.

British bribed Spain and Portugal to get their help to end the international slave trade. Royal Navy patrolled the Atlantic to try to catch any ships carrying slaves. Arab slave traders used more streamlined ships to try to outrun the British Navy. And sometimes when there was a threat of being boarded, they would throw African slaves overboard to drown so it won't look like they weren't transporting slaves. Arab slave traders would also castrate males because Eunuchs were worth more that way.

kumikochan · Oct 9, 2018

spAik said:
@BORTZ @Issac @tj_cool @Depravo

Why are you calling supervisors when everybody is talking respectfully against each other in a proper manner ?

Attacker3 · Oct 9, 2018

spAik said:
@BORTZ @Issac @tj_cool @Depravo

Why are you calling the mod on our debate? They're very busy, and we're being respectful and civil. You can't just call a mod because you disagree with what's being said. Also, there's a thing called a report button.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Also his last post before this one was from 2009 and somehow knows all the supervisors and just so happened to stumble on our debate. Sockpuppet much?

Opinions re: ANTIFA?

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