Amiga

RunningSnakes · May 30, 2023

The UAE-WII emulator is outstanding, one of the very best the Wii has to offer. It supports Everything known to the platform, (adf, hdf, whdload, igame, tinylauncher), i mean Everything!!!

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I removed the rest of this OP since it only caused this thread to turn confrontational which was never my intention.

I enjoy the Amiga and the link below provides end users the Best available way to play your favorite games from the 80's and 90's. To those unfamiliar with this beautiful gaming computer, give this emu/app a try and you will not regret it.

Very easy to set up, basically drag and drop on your SD/USB device and you are ready to go. Instructions are included to help with the setup. Enjoy!!!

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Amiga Tiny Launcher Setup

https://www.mediafire.com/file/82earq12u1x2g74/UAE+Wii+-+Amiga+Tiny+Launcher+Setup.7z/file

FAST6191 · May 30, 2023

I am not sure what Amiga library you played. With some notable exceptions (earlier Disney-Capcom platformers) its ports are the best of any console and usually only compared with DOS versions -- mouse support alone meaning most strategy games* are that or DOS/SCUMMVM version, possibly even when things existed for the PS1 (much rather Amiga Worms than PS1 version though by the time the PS1 version appeared for my friends and I it was all about 2 and later Armageddon). There are some ROM hacks doing things nowadays for mouse support in games without it originally (saw a nice one for Shadowgate the other day) but even those are more recent in a lot of cases.
Games wise yeah many suffer for being from the 16 bit era when compared to the polish of both today and even just 5-10 years later, though the same would be said for everything.
Back to said library though then their exclusives (or 16 bit exclusive, PC and PS1 and beyond being a different matter)

*sim city doing things a bit differently makes it a hard comparison for some there, even if I ignore my indifference to the SNES version and 2000 or bust otherwise. I write it off same as I do some people for some reason like the SNES version of Doom.

I would not necessarily suggest the Amiga as a truly representative example of the generation in the same way I might say 360 or PS3 it makes no great difference, or could even get there for megadrive vs SNES (Phantasy Star 2 and 4 is better than Final Fantasy as far as I am concerned but SNES era Final Fantasy are still massively important in gaming history so best not to miss out on them). Or as fun as James Pond and Zool (can throw in Titus as well if you want) are then they are not Sonic and Mario.
At the same time there is plenty of interesting stuff on the Amiga that would have blown a console only gamer's mind back then -- if you have something like Simulcra on the 16 bit consoles please do share. Rest of the stuff we were talking about in https://gbatemp.net/threads/the-a500-mini.592580/ also
Comparisons to the PCE/TG16? That is a bold move also putting it up there against the megadrive and SNES. I love me its versions of Bomberman (I would take the best there over the Saturn version and until the XBLA version appeared it was ), less keen on its Castlevania but I am more a fan of the GBA and DS side of things there. Shooters on the PCE/TG16 and Amiga could be an interesting one, though that is mostly going to be a European vs Japanese (bullet hell had not quite taken off at this point but it was clearly the direction things were going) affair rather than direct comparisons.

RunningSnakes · May 30, 2023

Over the past 6-9 years i have given Amiga the course run. Sure the good Point/Click games are solid, (Simon, Monkey, Indiana) but the exclusive titles Amiga holds in such high regard, are not good games. Ruff n Tumble, Superfrog, Switchblade...many others.

Zool is a great example of a highly thought Amiga game, where the Mega Drive version is better in every way. The same can be said for Speedball 2, Gods, Leander, James Pond, Turrican, and the list goes on.

As i said, when the novelty wears off quickly, poor controls will slap you in the face. If you can get past the poor controls, you'll find out hitbox is random or non-existent. In the end you will only be playing the Point/Click adventures and Sims.

ScummVM runs all the Point/Click games worth playing much quicker in my experience.

I suppose we could list the very few games the Amiga would be successful against the competition...

Worms
Lemmings
Any Others?

SylverReZ · May 30, 2023

There are a shit ton of great games for the Amiga which is too much to list here. I would very much stick with "WinUAE" to emulate Amiga games.

plasturion · May 30, 2023

The Settlers, Super Frog, Lotus Turbo Challenge 2, Pinball Dreams, Cannon Fodder, Walker, Zool 2, Soccer Kid, Apidya, Pushover, Cool Spot, Alfred Chicken, Flashback, Rodland, Worms and many other titles are just better than good.
There are many many great titles for Amiga, same as the software programs like Deluxe Paint, Fast Tracker, etc.
Super Frog is exclusive and the best game ever and it's just a must have.

mrdude · May 30, 2023

My Favourite Amiga game of all time was a bitmap brothers game called GODS. Someone did a remake and make some new levels, you can also design your own levels and they made it in java so you can use it on any OS that supports java.

https://jotd.pagesperso-orange.fr/gods/

ber71 · May 30, 2023

You should try stunt car racer, a quite deep racing simulation game.

Lostbhoy · May 30, 2023

Dizzy games and rik dangerous 1 and 2 were my favs but can't think any others I played that aren't on your point!

Disorarara · May 31, 2023

I remember UAE-wii not running full speed and needing frameskip for a lot of games, not ideal

Unless I'm wrong and most games run fine?

RunningSnakes · May 31, 2023

Disorarara said:
I remember UAE-wii not running full speed and needing frameskip for a lot of games, not ideal

Unless I'm wrong and most games run fine?

There are a few that struggle a bit and a few that i have not been able to get running (Banshee) . Just about every game i have tried (400-500) all work very well though if occasionally the user must change memory to 1mb (Worms).

I have for the mostly abandoned using .adf because of loading times and disk swapping.

Using .hdf images is ideal for me for individual game play. The load times are still there, but once loaded, smooth sailing. This is great for games with multiple disks (Beneath A Steel Sky).

iGame WHDLoad also works very well. @matto21 and myself set up a 1200 game 2gb hdf image last year that is pretty sweet, if you can be patient enough for a short minute, while it loads the interface. This method is a little cumbersome but the novelty factor is enormous.

More recently, @cheloruiz79, @matto21 and myself set up TinyLauncher WHDLoad with 1000 games. This setup is the best imo because the user can add/remove any game(s) they want, then scan using a real keyboard (virtual keyboad is not supported for scanning games). TinyLauncher auto-boots when opening UAE+Wii and navigation is top notch.

The Amiga is a beautiful gaming computer only hampered by serious control issues that mainly affect the vast majority of Action and Platform titles. This is only my opinion and believe if i grew up playing this system, the controls would not be an issue.

The point i make here is, if there are Mega Drive/Genesis or SNES titles available (there are many), you will be better served using those 2 platforms over the Amiga in almost all instances. Again, this is my opinion and i know there are many who want the Amiga authentic experience.

FAST6191 · May 31, 2023

I am not sure where this controls bit comes in.

Most people I knew had joysticks, controllers (think third party for the 16 bit era efforts as same companies, and third party back then actually had some good stuff, ignore the horror that is the CD32 effort) and keyboard and such is not so bad either (played many platformer and action games on one via emulation).

Certainly you will get the only 4 way movement (where mouse controls were not a thing), can't walk and chew gum at the same time, jump is up on the stick rather than dedicated and all the other similar sort of things in certain games but same applies to anything... I recall looking into something on the DS to fix and I can't imagine it is better on the 3ds, and plenty is discussed in ROM hacking circles for older stuff. I can't say it is particularly endemic to the Amiga library though.

https://retro-sanctuary.com/Comparisons Main.html has some comparisons some like to look at in these scenarios if people did want something to look at there.

Tetsuo Shima · Jun 1, 2023

I mostly agree with Runningsnakes. On the Wii there's no sense in playing many Amiga games, when there are so many better conversions on 16 bit consoles (heck.. even on c64 in some cases!). Some Amiga programmers were so lazy.
The mouse games are out of question too (a shame to say with a wiimote in hand), because mouse pointer is glitchy, like with dosbox

. Too bad, no Cannon Fodder!

All considered, only a few games remain: some exclusives like Giana Sisters, Turrican 2 (best 16 bit version, it was never released on SNES or MD, Chris Huelsbeck music..), Shadows of the Beast 1, 2, 3, Night Shift, Lionheart, Team 17 games, Stormlord (uncensored

), Hunter, Akira (crappiest game in the world, but I'm Tetsuo, so...), the list could be a little longer.
Except for a few they're not really great to play (SOTB is a crap of a game!), but they are so iconic. Sometimes I feel the need to run them just to hear the music. In many cases Amiga was stronger in the audio compartment than MD for example, and also had better colors (but you have to like the style, like that gradient colors on the backgrounds).
So I won't say that there are no reasons to keep it, but only a few.

On a little OT: I seem to recall trying to launch .hdf files with no success... some time has passed.
Is there a particular setting to use to launch .hdf files? It would be so much better to avoid disk swapping!
I was interested in WHDload too but I don't know if it makes sense in Wiiflow (I'm not at all familiar with it)

RunningSnakes · Jun 1, 2023

@Tetsuo Shima

Yes, .hdf loads and plays very well. I have never successfully got hdf to work through WFL though.

TinyLauncher will load through WFL but you then have to select which game you want to play, defeating the purpose of loading through WFL.

I'll PM you my setup using hdf.

Tetsuo Shima · Jun 1, 2023

RunningSnakes said:
I have never successfully got hdf to work through WFL though.

Wiiflow was my main concern.. I hoped it was possible, one hdf per game

RunningSnakes · Jun 1, 2023

Yes, hdf files need to be individually mounted unfortunately. I don't think WFL can auto-boot with arguments either but i am no expert with arguments. Perhaps someone with better knowledge, maybe @SaulFabre could help.

I think there is a stronger possibility using the correct arguments with TinyLauncher, WFL could auto-boot the WHDLoad games.

I have tried but have not been successful.

matto21 · Jun 1, 2023

those are the two ways @RunningSnakes was citing
Amiga-TinyLauncher
Amiga-iGame

CrashMidnick · Jun 11, 2023

Interresting thread

Back in the time I owned an Amiga and a SNES at the same time (I sold the SNES and not the Amiga ^^)

The Amiga library is not around 4000 games but 13 000 games : http://obligement.free.fr/listejeuxamiga/listejeuxamiga-stats.php

Comparing the Amiga to a NES or a MS made me laugh. I do not know which games you tried but I think that it was not the most selling ones. Please note that an Amiga can emulate a NES and a Master system...

Many Arcade games were ported recently to Amiga and here is an example (not really a NES, hum ?)

Here is castlevania on NES :

Here is castlevania coming to Amiga AGA :

Remember that the technolgy inside the Amiga is from 1985. Give me the name of a console or a computer in that era that can do what an Amiga did back then ? The Atari st, Macs, PC's, console where all left behind, for games and for the operating system.
Please note that music in a game was almost 50% of the experience of a given game, Paula's chip was only beaten by PC/Amiga sound cards and CD based console/computers. Even Megadrive and SNES where bad compared to Paula except in few games.

Now we compare a stock Amiga in this thread with a Magadrive or a SNES. If your goal is to prove that MD and SNES where better in terms of graphics, then you are right. There were design for games and nothing else (on Amiga you can play and creater music, do office work, paint, 3D animation...).

Now if you take an Expanded Amiga with accelerators, RTG cards, sound cards... it will not be the same results as it can play games such as Wipeout 2097, QUAKE 1 and 2, Descent, Diablo and many others that a SNES and a MD will never play.

Game companies remain focused on the A500 compatibility until the end of the Amiga, the AGA chipset found on A1200/A4000/CD32 was left behind.

About controls, they were just good. A joystick and a keyboard full of keys. Except if you plugged in a keyboard in your Wii, you missed some precious controls (i.e. Alien Breed 2). Now with WHDLOAD, many keyboards keys can be mapped to a controller. SNES controller type can be used on Amiga, all its buttons can be mapped. You can play Flashback just like you would do on a SNES or MD.

Here are some games that I will never play on any other platforms because TO ME they are better on the Amiga (or exclusives) :

ZOOL CD32 (yes I prefer Zool CD32 than the MD one

), Zool 2 (not on MD ?), Alien breed trilogy, Agony, Apydia, Project X, Another world, Arabian Nights, Athanor 2, Battle chess, Populous 1 and 2, Lemmigs trilogy, Blood Money, Globdule, Super Frog, Black Viper AGA, Banshee, Brian the Lion AGA, 4D sport Driving, Pang, Benefactor, Bills Tomato, Lotus Trilogy, Jaguar XJ220, Cadaver, Cannon fodder, Sensible world of soccer, Kick OFF 1 and 2, Defender of the crown, Flashback, Heart of the Alien, Escapee, Hired Guns, IK+, James Pond 2, Inviyya, Jurassic Park, Gods, Gloom (Deluxe), Lion Heart, Hybris, Leander, SWIV, Menace, Nebulus 1 and 2, Noth and South, Odyssey, PanzaKickBoxing, Nicky Boom, Pinball fantasies, Wings, Rick Dangerous 1 and 2, RuffNTumble, sleep Walker, Shuffle Puck Cafe, Silkworm, speedball 2, Super cars 1/2 and AGA, soccer kid, breathless, and many more... And of course all point and click games.

SylverReZ · Jun 11, 2023

CrashMidnick said:
Here is castlevania coming to Amiga AGA :

At least its better than the actual Amiga game.

CrashMidnick · Jun 11, 2023

SylverReZ said:
At least its better than the actual Amiga game.

This is exactly why I took this example and why, maybe, OP compared the Amiga to a NES.

Maeson · Jun 11, 2023

As I see it, during the 80's all the way up to the year 2000 there was a huge difference between the experience you would get from computers and the one you'd get from consoles, even when playing the "same" games although I would argue that people would play different things on each, not to mention that as far as computers go, they existed mainly for other reasons.

To me, they feel like different worlds so to speak. There's such large differences in game design between both groups that if you've experienced mainly one and go and try the other, of course you're going to come out with a highly opinionated idea of it based on your experiences with the one you've spent the most time.

There are so many reasons for such divide. Consoles, for the most part, became a japanese thing, with mainly japanese developers with their own ideas and inspirations while computers, again for the most part, are more of a european/western thing, with their own way of doing things. Very different controllers (and mouse + keyboard) provided grounds for different types of games too, just like the differences that being able to install a game or having to read everything from cartridges can also impact how to design games.

But it seems like this conversation is more about comparing ports of the same game across different systems...

As far as ports of the same game, this is not an Amiga "issue". It's as old as videogames, really. You can check the ports of dozens of early to mid 80's arcade games between consoles and computers of the specific era for each title and the quality would vary WILDLY. Heck, I would include the Atari 2600 too.

If you make such comparisons (there are youtube channels like Retro Core and PatmanQC for quick video comparisons, for example) besides graphical differences, the big thing that stands out to me is the gigantic difference in frame rate between computer and consoles that would make or break an entire port, most often break. They were all very different machines and people tried what they could (or, to be honest, sometimes tried. Others they pushed whatever rushed thing they could get away with). And if we were to compare real hardware, the controllers or keyboards to play games on PCs of that time could be a very painful experience too, depending on what we're talking about...

But then a system like the Famicom enters the picture, making its 60 Frames as the norm going forward (at least for a number of years, lol) and its library made by the Japanese way of design, plus a controller that would impact the medium in a pretty big way. While early Famicom/NES is pretty basic comparing it to its later years (and it's fascinating how much games evolved throught the system's life!) it was still a significant upgrade in many ways to what it was present. Just comparing something like Mario Bros. and Donkey Kong across the systems is enough to see how big the difference can be on all levels.

I try to maintain a fair view of things and take at the very least the historical value of them, yet I have to agree that often times I try to push myself towards early computer stuff, and while there is certainly a number of good games and sometimes I end up being positively surprised, I am too left underwhelmed. Like anything else, I suppose.

I don't see anything wrong with just "getting by" and playing the Amiga games that really work for you, it's not like we need to enjoy 100% of the library of a given system to consider it worthy of our enjoyment. Personally I tend to pay more attention to "computer minded" games instead of playing games that were also present on consoles, although sometimes the Amiga port does come on top.

Things like Ambermoon, Perihelion or Hired Guns to name three examples. On the other hand I tend to avoid european-styled platformers that often feel empty and... for a lack of a better world, pointless. There's exceptions, of course but in general that's my feeling.

And hey, if nothing else, you can check the homebrew scene and play cool things like the Metal Gear remake for the Amiga that was created a couple of years ago. It was pretty darn sweet and better than the original. We can only hope for a remake of Metal Gear 2, if only so we can play it at a frame rate that's acceptable...

CrashMidnick said:
Comparing the Amiga to a NES or a MS made me laugh. I do not know which games you tried but I think that it was not the most selling ones.

The number of sales does not equate game quality, really. And I don't see what's there to laugh either. Sure, graphically there's significant differences, but if we're talking about enjoyable games, both systems but specially the NES/Famicom with its massive variety in its library can certainly put up a fight. Specially if we take heavy artillery like Just Breed, a massive Strategy RPG that barely anyone knows but it's one of the most impressive games on that system while also being pretty forward thinking as far as reduced grinding and quick pace for its time.

But even then, comparing things like game design, the feeling of the gameplay and such can be done regardless of system differences. A europan-designed platformer for computers is wildly different than a japanese-designed platformer for a console.

Heck, sometimes the humble Game Boy would come up with the most enjoyable or cool version of a game, like Bubble Ghost, and that's a really basic system as far as tech compared to the computers that played that game originally.

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In the end it is a matter of adquired tastes, we live in times where we can try all this stuff for ourselves and see what we end up enjoying. Keep what we like and move on to try other things. And maybe revisit time after to see if you change your opinion.

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