Burning speed does matter on very old PSX consoles from launch day. Any PSX model SCPH-5000 and up are not nearly as picky about burn speed, and the PS2 doesn't care at all. My SCPH-1000 launch day PSX on the other hand can't read anything at 16x or higher on even high quality archival grade media. SCPH-1001 is the same. This is really unfortunate because it is rare to find a brand new burner that can do lower then even 16x now. Even worse, the lowest burn speed is never ever advertised anywhere.
Can't agree with you on that. Really, I failed finding any difference. No substantial differences in error scan and no substantial differences on PS1.
Unfortunately I generally have very mixed results with these Verbatim AZO on PS1:
Disk sub type: Medium Type A, high Beta category (A+) (3)
ATIP start of lead in: -11077 (97:34/23)
ATIP start of lead out: 359848 (79:59/73)
Disk type: Long strategy type (Cyanine, AZO or similar)
Manuf. index: 11
Manufacturer: Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation
Capacity Blklen/Sparesz. Format-type Type
291257 2048 0x00 Formatted Media
Just wasted two of them for copying Dune 2000 (Germany). Dumping+burning with IMGBurn.
Disc 1 – Written with Plextor Premium on 4x
Disc 2 – Written with ASUS DRW-24D5MT on insane 19.2x to 48x CAV
Console 1: SCPH-7502 (unknown old modchip, drive *very* bad)
Result:
→ Game crashes directly for both CD-R. Original works.
This drive will most likely work with phthalocyanine material – it does with other games, but I'm too tired to continue right now
Console 2: SCPH-1002 (stock, drive worn and desperately needs your maintenance guide, console needs to stand vertically). I have no FreePSXBoot Memory Card for the old console prepared… so I tortured the drive by hotswapping the original Dune 2000 CD with the copies.
Result:
→ Full motion video playing without stuttering for both copies. Drive is loud. Game loads first mission for both discs. (Console vertically)
Console 3: SCPH-9002 (PsNee, drive like new)
Result:
→ Full motion video playing perfectly. Running smooth. No differences copy 1 vs. copy 2 vs original.
=========
What I can say is that I have very bad experiences with slim line drives in general. The newer ones seem to be slightly better (and will generally offer a minimum of 10x CLV opposed to 16x CLV for full sized units).
Honestly this also applies if you're swapping around DDR mixes on a System 573 (Its PS1 based). I burned DDR 6th Mix with my desktop burner (minimum 16x for CD burning) and the 573 kept throwing up an error during the installation process.
Got an external burner (minimum 10x for CD burning) and the 573 installed the game without throwing a tantrum once i reburned the CD with the external burner.
At least to me it seems like external burners fares better when it comes to burning CD's for old CD based consoles since they burn at a slower speed compared to a full sized desktop burner. Just wanted to share my thoughts since i went through the same issues trying to swap around mixes on a DDR cab i help maintain in town.
It is only good for rough estimation and for telling if a burn result is absolutely unusable.
Old drives can be problematic. They are not always in working condition. Still, consider trying a different dye. The always repeated "Just get Verbatim and everything will be good" is either not true or not true anymore. Got mixed results with Azo myself. Try Phthalocyanine discs.
Sadly all of the ODE are replacements not featuring passthrough to the original drive. The WODE was able to keep access to original DVDs on Wii.
ODE is all great for reviving a console with dead drive, but not the ultimate solution for someone with a physical collection.
Somehow there is something missing without the *option* to use original discs. Why not go a step further and just use emulators then?
Buffer underrun protection is part of CD writers since… when? Eternity.
Oh for sure when it comes to PS1 just about anything can emulate it, even the Wii is making progess lol But a nice PC with ePSXe and some tinkering I would call better than original. Honestly I fully endorse emulation unless the person is one of those "but I need the actual hardware running on an actual CRT with my 90's VHS collection!!!" Hey more power to you, my preference is the games not really the hardware
Can't agree with you on that. Really, I failed finding any difference. No substantial differences in error scan and no substantial differences on PS1.
Unfortunately I generally have very mixed results with these Verbatim AZO on PS1:
Just wasted two of them for copying Dune 2000 (Germany). Dumping+burning with IMGBurn.
Disc 1 – Written with Plextor Premium on 4x
Disc 2 – Written with ASUS DRW-24D5MT on insane 19.2x to 48x CAV
Console 1: SCPH-7502 (unknown old modchip, drive *very* bad)
Result:
→ Game crashes directly for both CD-R. Original works.
This drive will most likely work with phthalocyanine material – it does with other games, but I'm too tired to continue right now
Console 2: SCPH-1002 (stock, drive worn and desperately needs your maintenance guide, console needs to stand vertically). I have no FreePSXBoot Memory Card for the old console prepared… so I tortured the drive by hotswapping the original Dune 2000 CD with the copies.
Result:
→ Full motion video playing without stuttering for both copies. Drive is loud. Game loads first mission for both discs. (Console vertically)
Console 3: SCPH-9002 (PsNee, drive like new)
Result:
→ Full motion video playing perfectly. Running smooth. No differences copy 1 vs. copy 2 vs original.
=========
What I can say is that I have very bad experiences with slim line drives in general. The newer ones seem to be slightly better (and will generally offer a minimum of 10x CLV opposed to 16x CLV for full sized units).
I can attest that the old slimline laptop drives are bad for the PSX. I had a bunch of old laptops at one point and they didn’t seem to work as well as my current modern $30 external burner. From my burning section in the tonyhax international homepage (https://alex-free.github.io/tonyhax-international/#cd-r-media-for-psx-backups), my Verbatim DataLifePlus info is
ATIP info from disk:
Indicated writing power: 4
Disk Is not unrestricted
Disk Is not erasable
Disk sub type: Medium Type A, high Beta category (A+) (3)
ATIP start of lead in: -11077 (97:34/23)
ATIP start of lead out: 359848 (79:59/73)
Disk type: Long strategy type (Cyanine, AZO or similar)
Manuf. index: 11
Manufacturer: Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation
I also had pretty good results with the gold archival grade Verbatim UltraLife CD-Rs (because of the highly reflective gold layer making up for the disk strategy type):
ATIP info from disk:
Indicated writing power: 5
Disk Is not unrestricted
Disk Is not erasable
Disk sub type: Medium Type B, low Beta category ( (4)
ATIP start of lead in: -12520 (97:15/05)
ATIP start of lead out: 359849 (79:59/74)
Disk type: Short strategy type (Phthalocyanine or similar)
Manuf. index: 26
Manufacturer: TDK Corporation
The garbage Maxell CD-Rs found in retail stores are terrible and have this info:
ATIP info from disk:
Indicated writing power: 4
Disk Is unrestricted
Disk Is not erasable
Disk sub type: Medium Type A, low Beta category (A-) (2)
ATIP start of lead in: -12508 (97:15/17)
ATIP start of lead out: 359845 (79:59/70)
Disk type: Short strategy type (Phthalocyanine or similar)
Manuf. index: 22
Manufacturer: Ritek Co.
Just curious, what is the serial number and manufacture date of the 1002? Did you try to see if the CD Player Swap Trick works on it? The 1001s may be the only launch models with a manufacture date (the Japanese ones don’t have it on the back label for instance, but I found a good serial number range that can tell you if it has the CD Player Swap Trick back door that doesn’t involve hotswapping a moving disc). I unfortunately don’t have any info on what serial numbers the 1002s have which contain the CD Player Swap Trick. But if it’s October 95 or older it should have either BIOS 2.0/VC1A or BIOS v2.1/VC1A, which both have the backdoor.
CD-ROMs are more reflective then CD-Rs. CD-Rs are also mostly 80 minutes at this point, which have tighter spiral windings which the PSX was not designed for really. If you check the old Sony BBS developer archives still floating around the net, Sony actually didn’t gaurentee anything more then a 71 min CD-R to work on the original dev console units from 94/95 back when they were new. Real PSX CD-ROMs are like 72 minutes so they have 2 advantages over CD-Rs and is why many worn consoles will only have issues with burned discs but read real ones just fine.
I think 74min discs do work a bit better when drives are worn and out of original lubrication tolerance, and unlike 71 minute discs they are actually available as new old stock online still (at an insane premium). But really, 80 min discs are fine and still just barely in the original CD book standard tolerance so I no longer bother. Epically if the drive is refurbed there is no difference. It is only with worn drives IMO. But for awhile I was buying new old stock 74 min Verbatim DataLifePlus discs from the 90s with great success on extremely worn drives before I came up with the refurb guide.
Anyways, there were great leaps in technology throughout the life cycle of the console. Auto BIAS/Gain/Focus does make read tolerance better. And the later pickups and an all digital servo from VC2 and up all have it. VC0 and VC1 are analog servos like in audio CD players and just are not as good. IMO VC3 is the best for tolerances in read issues and can more gracefully recover out of all versions. This was the version the PS2 shipped with (at least that’s what it reports in tonyhax international). It is also found in the 7500 and newer, maybe the 7000 IIRC. Now none of this means that the launch models can’t read CD-Rs, each consoles drive is in a different state and maybe the laser is stronger in the 1002 then the 7502. The vertical thing/loud noise only proves that the lubrication is off spec, which is what most of my guide addresses. Everything had different use and wear over the years.
Most of the time you can put a problematic 440AAM drive in a PSone and it will work fine but have issues in the original SCPH-1000 console it came from for example. Also vice versa. Just because a 440BAM works in a PSone doesn’t mean it will work as well in a 1000…
Anyways, my 1000 still has the original drive and reads 80 min DataLifePlus discs just fine in normal orientation at the moment. I haven’t even done any work to it but I got really lucky and bought an expensive one complete in box from a seller I really trust in Japan that I’ve used a lot.
Honestly this also applies if you're swapping around DDR mixes on a System 573 (Its PS1 based). I burned DDR 6th Mix with my desktop burner (minimum 16x for CD burning) and the 573 kept throwing up an error during the installation process.
Got an external burner (minimum 10x for CD burning) and the 573 installed the game without throwing a tantrum once i reburned the CD with the external burner.
At least to me it seems like external burners fares better when it comes to burning CD's for old CD based consoles since they burn at a slower speed compared to a full sized desktop burner. Just wanted to share my thoughts since i went through the same issues trying to swap around mixes on a DDR cab i help maintain in town.
I would only recommend an IDE or old Sata CD burner (at least 10 years or older at this point) if going the desktop burner route (YOU CAN USE A SATA OR IDE TO USB ADAPTER BTW). I definitely agree on the external burner though.
Oh for sure when it comes to PS1 just about anything can emulate it, even the Wii is making progess lol But a nice PC with ePSXe and some tinkering I would call better than original. Honestly I fully endorse emulation unless the person is one of those "but I need the actual hardware running on an actual CRT with my 90's VHS collection!!!" Hey more power to you, my preference is the games not really the hardware
Mostly using the Asus drive at 16x. Never had any problems. In practice I prefer slow burning as well. I just doubt it has any noticeable effect nowadays… or better say: As much as I tried, I didn't find any problems or differences comparing 16x with 4x.
My Plextor Premium is a little damaged (was happy to even get one for beating SecuROM New without paying hundreds of €€€). Same problem with many other drives that old.
A new (bought January) external/slim DVD multi writer was a positive surprise in reading capabilities but generally performs poorer when writing than the big Asus. No luck on trying regular patterns (SafeDisc 2 and higher "weak sectors") on CD-RW, unusable burn result for GameCube DVD-R backups. Not yet tried PS1.
CD-ROMs are more reflective then CD-Rs. CD-Rs are also mostly 80 minutes at this point, which have tighter spiral windings which the PSX was not designed for really. If you check the old Sony BBS developer archives still floating around the net, Sony actually didn’t gaurentee anything more then a 71 min CD-R to work on the original dev console units from 94/95 back when they were new. Real PSX CD-ROMs are like 72 minutes so they have 2 advantages over CD-Rs and is why many worn consoles will only have issues with burned discs but read real ones just fine.
There is a noticeable difference on worn drives, agreed. When you get the chance to buy 650MB/74min CDs cheap, you should. Local thrift store, about 10€ and the owner was happy to get rid of the shelf warmers. Those Memorex perform nicely in PS1.
The vertical thing/loud noise only proves that the lubrication is off spec, which is what most of my guide addresses. Everything had different use and wear over the years.
Background information from an official service manual for a CD-RW drive:
Reflectivity (Rtop) CD-ROM 70%, CD-R 65%, CD-RW 15% ~ 25%
No wonder old drives not designed for them never detect CD-RW.
=========
All in all it is a trial and error to find out what your consoles like. New blank CDs and DVDs are dirt cheap, so a bit of experimenting doesn't drain your wallet.
The drive in the SCPH-5552 is already lubricated following the guide. It went from "read originals bad and only read cd-r upside down" to "reads originals and cd-r fine, only stuttering audio with some cd-r" I didn't adjust the potmeter because I've read that turning up the laser power will wear it out even faster.
Are 650MB really much better? On a secondnhand market place online someone sells Emtec 650MB CD-R's 100pcs. I don't know what they cost yet. Is the chance not big that they have "disc rot" after all those years? I can't see/test them before buying.
The desktop drives from 2011 and newer can only burn 16x CLV at lowest. The slimline drive in a Dell Optiplex SFF can do 10x, I think they are the same like the external ones. Somehow I think technically the drives can do lower speeds because they can still burn 4x only CD-RW discs, it's just not selectable with CD-R.
Are 650MB really much better? On a secondnhand market place online someone sells Emtec 650MB CD-R's 100pcs. I don't know what they cost yet. Is the chance not big that they have "disc rot" after all those years? I can't see/test them before buying.
Indeed a possible problem. The organic substances used for the dyes might deteriorate over time and I've encountered an unbelievable thing: Somebody gave me a bunch of CD-Rs and asked me to burn copies of expensive audio CDs for use in car stereo. They had stored the blanks some years.
I started this work and couldn't believe my eyes: The protective lacquer on top of the CD-R had become so unstable that the discs had holes in the reflective and data layer, size several millimeters. Just from the rotation of the burning drive. The data and reflective layer literally disintegrated itself and flew away in flakes.
Like with all the other questions, much of this is guesswork. Who knows how stable a particular dye/lacquer/reflective layer is? Who knows how those discs have been stored 20+ years. Hot? Cold? Humid? In direct sunlight? Don't pay a fortune for old stock discs.
That should be true for the laser power itself, right on the flex cable of the optical drive unit. I don't think Bias and Gain will cause this, but @alexfree should know much better than me.
The drive in the SCPH-5552 is already lubricated following the guide. It went from "read originals bad and only read cd-r upside down" to "reads originals and cd-r fine, only stuttering audio with some cd-r" I didn't adjust the potmeter because I've read that turning up the laser power will wear it out even faster.
Are 650MB really much better? On a secondnhand market place online someone sells Emtec 650MB CD-R's 100pcs. I don't know what they cost yet. Is the chance not big that they have "disc rot" after all those years? I can't see/test them before buying.
The desktop drives from 2011 and newer can only burn 16x CLV at lowest. The slimline drive in a Dell Optiplex SFF can do 10x, I think they are the same like the external ones. Somehow I think technically the drives can do lower speeds because they can still burn 4x only CD-RW discs, it's just not selectable with CD-R.
I think that maybe the best CD-R media for the PSX is the verbatim DataLifePlus 74 min CD-Rs with copyright date of 97 or 99 on the back of the case. These have a dark blue colored reflective layer and are on eBay all the time. These have always worked for me, even brand new I tried this last year and the 25 year old discs I bought all worked. You could give it a shot, it may or may not make a whole lot of difference.
Thanks for following the guide, I’m glad you got some good results with it. I would try relubricating everything one more time. Sometimes you need to do it twice (which I should write in an update to the guide). Usually what I do the second time is move the laser all the way out (instead of to the halfway point). That way you can lubricate where the laser sled was covering the first time though followed the guide.
The laser resistance potentiometer is not covered in the guide, but you could make a 1/8ths turn to the left I believe and it may make it better. I would only do this as a last resort though, because it does effectively shorten the life of the laser diode (not by a massive amount though).
Indeed a possible problem. The organic substances used for the dyes might deteriorate over time and I've encountered an unbelievable thing: Somebody gave me a bunch of CD-Rs and asked me to burn copies of expensive audio CDs for use in car stereo. They had stored the blanks some years.
I started this work and couldn't believe my eyes: The protective lacquer on top of the CD-R had become so unstable that the discs had holes in the reflective and data layer, size several millimeters. Just from the rotation of the burning drive. The data and reflective layer literally disintegrated itself and flew away in flakes.
Like with all the other questions, much of this is guesswork. Who knows how stable a particular dye/lacquer/reflective layer is? Who knows how those discs have been stored 20+ years. Hot? Cold? Humid? In direct sunlight? Don't pay a fortune for old stock discs.
That should be true for the laser power itself, right on the flex cable of the optical drive unit. I don't think Bias and Gain will cause this, but @alexfree should know much better than me.
The bias/gain adjustment is applicable to the earliest consoles (pre SCPH-5500 IIRC) that don't have the auto focus/bias/gain in the CD servo. I got my bias/gain values from reading the ones set on a SCPH-1000 that was refurbished by Sony (according to the service sticker on the back). Ideally, the bias/gain should be set with an oscilloscope to find the correct values that make the ideal waveform. I don't have an analog oscilloscope to figure out how to do that though, so a best guess off of known good values is what I do currently. As long as you stay within the values I specify, nothing bad can happen to the laser. If set the values to some insane ridiculous value you could kill the laser, but you'd have to do that intentionally really, as the multi-meter will show the values set as you do it and the screws are not super sensitive for the most part.
I agree that the old stock is probably not worth it since it is so expensive. Old stock sealed in individual jewel cases should be ok from sunlight and the elements though, at least in my expierence. A spindle in a clear case probably won't fair as well since it is much more exposed to the elements. The DataLifePlus discs are supposed to last for many years longer then standard media, that is actually what the DataLifePlus part means. It just so happens that they are also much more reflective which helps the PSX laser itself in tracking.
In the meantime I tried 2 other burners, a TSSTcorp TS-H492C combo-drive sitting in a old Pentium 3-desktop and a old NEC ND-3550A DVD-RW which I put into my Pentium 4 machine.
For both burners 8x is the lowest selectable speed with the Verbatim AZO discs.
The TS-H492C burned a coaster right away, didn't boot on the PS1 at all
But the ND-3550A seem to be a good burner for PS1 games on the AZO discs I've done 8 games without any coasters or skipping audio I used CloneCD for one Libcrypt-game and Imgburn for the others, on Windows XP.
In my experience it's not really much to do with the burners but the media you use with them. I've had best results with older 650MB capacity CD-Rs. Newer 700MB CD-Rs are harder for older drives like the ones used in the PS1 to read.
One example is a 1/2x External SCSI CD-ROM for my Macintosh LC III. It reads all my 650MB discs fine but won't read the modern 700MB ones and I've burned them from the same drive!
Maybe it's the combination of burner and media. In this tread I used the same spindle of Verbatim AZO media and tried 7 burners with it. Only the NEC ND-3550A didn't make any coasters or games with skipping audio after 8 games burned.
The other burners wasted 9 discs to only have 3 acceptable games (only very occasional skipping audio). The discs from the ND-3550A doesn't skip at all.
The minimum burning speed for a blank recordable optical media is part of the factory metadata stored on it. It's an abacus written on it and telling the burner to use a specific laser power for a given rotation speed.
Too less power for a high rotation speed doesn't burn the dye at all, making the reader unable to detect 0s and 1s (all information read as 1s). On the other hand, too much power for a low rotation speed may produce a continual burn (aka only 0s). The purpose of this metadata is to give the burner the good balance between speed and power. So, saying that burning at low speed makes data more 'readable' is not necessarily true. Everything relies on the dye chemical composition, the burner error rate efficiency and (moreover) the reader capabilities.
Optical drives have mechanical parts and electronics subject to wear. So, if you have some reliable blank CD-R then the only other factor is probably your console optical drive. They are not made to last forever, and stock are usually cheap ones (I remember buying the PS2 on day 1 and sending it for repair 6 months later for an out-of-service DVD drive).
I understand your concern if you want to keep your console as close as possible to the stock one. But if you just want to play I should encourage you to mod your console (ODE PS1 is something coming) or try emulation on another platform.
Too less power for a high rotation speed doesn't burn the dye at all, making the reader unable to detect 0s and 1s (all information read as 1s). On the other hand, too much power for a low rotation speed may produce a continual burn (aka only 0s). The purpose of this metadata is to give the burner the good balance between speed and power. So, saying that burning at low speed makes data more 'readable' is not necessarily true. Everything relies on the dye chemical composition, the burner error rate efficiency and (moreover) the reader capabilities.
That is not how encoding on a CD works. "Burned" spots aren't equal to zeroes and "unburned" spots aren't equal to ones. Pits and lands don't have a direct mapping to the binary user data after decoding the analog signal gained from laser reflection. There is A LOT going on before the binary user data is reconstructed from the signal.
Generally CD-R are tested with a variety of speeds and still should support oldest 1x burners. A CD burner performs some tests in something called Power Calibration Area (negative address, not directly accessible for the user) for determining the optimal laser power for a given disc (in addition to the data encoded within the ATIP -- dye type, media length, max intended burn speed...)
My own limited tests and experiences:
Media quality matters
Writer quality matters
Writer condition matters
Don't laugh: Temperature matters. In winter I got constantly worse burn results on the attic for the first disc until the drive was a bit warm.
Not every writer likes every medium (both can be good, but they aren't best friends)
Console drives are garbage compared to full-sized PC drives and can be picky
CAV mode is potentially problematic and might lead to unequal burn quality across the disc. The constant need to adjust writing strategy on the fly is a complex task. Read such a statement in an official service manual as well.
There is no absolute truth: Trial and error is often required
I understand your concern if you want to keep your console as close as possible to the stock one. But if you just want to play I should encourage you to mod your console (ODE PS1 is something coming) or try emulation on another platform.
@KleinesSinchen: I outrageously simplified because I didn't want to be too technical. I myself don't have a very advanced knowledge about the real physical and logical processes involved in creating the data, reading and rebuilding it, but I totally agree with your statements. Anyway, burned CD-Rs are physically totally different from original ones "printed" with a physical matrix/mould, even if the reading/decoding process finally leads to the same usable binary data.
I've got some other CD-R's, they are Verbatim Extra Protection, Platinum and some Xlyne discs. The ATIP from those are all the same:
Code:
ATIP info from disk:
Indicated writing power: 5
Is not unrestricted
Is not erasable
Disk sub type: Medium Type A, high Beta category (A+) (3)
ATIP start of lead in: -11634 (97:26/66)
ATIP start of lead out: 359846 (79:59/71)
Disk type: Short strategy type (Phthalocyanine or similar)
Manuf. index: 3
Manufacturer: CMC Magnetics Corporation
Everywhere online I'm reading CMC Magnetics media has a bad quality. However, with the NEC ND-3550A burner they can still be good working PS1 games. I burned 4 of them and they are all fine.
The ATIP from the Verbatim AZO was different:
Code:
ATIP info from disk:
Indicated writing power: 4
Is not unrestricted
Is not erasable
Disk sub type: Medium Type A, high Beta category (A+) (3)
ATIP start of lead in: -11077 (97:34/23)
ATIP start of lead out: 359848 (79:59/73)
Disk type: Long strategy type (Cyanine, AZO or similar)
Manuf. index: 11
Manufacturer: Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation
In my experience it's not really much to do with the burners but the media you use with them. I've had best results with older 650MB capacity CD-Rs. Newer 700MB CD-Rs are harder for older drives like the ones used in the PS1 to read.
One example is a 1/2x External SCSI CD-ROM for my Macintosh LC III. It reads all my 650MB discs fine but won't read the modern 700MB ones and I've burned them from the same drive!
Goes off-topic, but I'll put it here. Hopefully interesting enough. It is not that easy. With all readily available CD-Rs, a burner will write pits/lands at a defined size (I'll omit Plextor GigaRec, Sanyo HD-Burn and Yamaha Audio Master at this point)
Sadly I'm missing a source for one of the following claims. I have read it somewhere… at least I think so… and it is plausible deduction from what I can link below. But if it is wrong anybody correct me (or the contrary: If anybody has another source to confirm, please do so.)
The difference between 700MB/80min and 650MB/74min blanks is the track pitch. By using all tolerances to the maximum, a tighter spiral groove can be used… while any working CD drive must still be able to follow the track. For whatever reason, ATIP allows for a capacity of 79min, 59sec and 74 frames(sectors) at maximum, totaling in 359999 sectors (which is about 703MB in Mode 1 with 2048 bytes per sector).
Anything beyond that should not be stored in ATIP data (which is why almost all 90min/100min CD-R report themselves as 80min requiring overburn for using the extra capacity). 90min/100min definitely exceed the tolerances by further decreasing track pitch and no drive is guaranteed or obliged to read/write such CDs (Pressing plants do offer audio CDs with up to 90min as well, but they will demand you to sign, that you take all responsibility if your customers encounter problems).
Now to the part where I'm not sure (can't provide source): Your statement above is – to my knowledge – not really wrong (though also not correct for the transition 650MB/74min→700MB/80min). I think there have been blanks that will make any CD burner write longer pits/lands. A consumer writer is far to imprecise to keep rotational speed at defined accuracy on it's own and needs to sync itself with… surprise… ATIP. Absolute time in pregroove. The minuscule pregroove wobble (amplitude of 0.03µm compared to the pit width of 0.6µm) shall be detected as 22050Hz frequency running at 1x speed. Producing a pregroove with slightly longer spacial period will force the drive into slightly higher rotational speed.
For simplicity assume a very old writer supporting 1x speed. With such a special CD-R, the linear velocity is 1.4m/s instead of 1.2m/s. Each pit/land is slightly stretched compared to normal.
Now do a bit of math:
1.2/1.4≈0.857
0.857*74min≈63.5min
550MB/63min CD-R existed at some point, but they are almost impossible to get: (No, I'll not buy this! This price is insane!!) https://www.ebay.com/itm/185763963846
The scanning velocity during recording shall be between 1,20 m/s and 1,40 m/s with a Channel bit rate of
4,321 8 Mbit/s (see clause 20). The velocity variation for a disk when recorded shall be within ± 0,01 m/s.
In practice almost all CD-ROM and CD-R(W) use the 1.2m/s linear velocity to maximize available memory. I do have some pressed CDs deviating from that though. Interesting side note here: The last sentence with the very small allowed deviation across the whole disc is equal to the statement: "A SecuROM New ≥v4.8 disc is NOT a CD-ROM!"
========== Edit:
I stumbled on a confirming source for my assumptions about 63min/550 while playing around with the Wayback Machine.
The difference is indeed the ATIP wobble having a longer wavelength forcing higher rotational speed for getting a 22050Hz signal, which results in larger pits/lands.
It is a shame that such products essentially vanished already in the early days of CD-R... 'cause you know: Why pay the same for a disc that holds less data?
==========
After this long text, back to the PS1:
I would love to know how the PS1 reacts to the insanely expensive and rare 63min/550MB CD-R
Maybe it's the combination of burner and media. In this tread I used the same spindle of Verbatim AZO media and tried 7 burners with it. Only the NEC ND-3550A didn't make any coasters or games with skipping audio after 8 games burned.
The other burners wasted 9 discs to only have 3 acceptable games (only very occasional skipping audio). The discs from the ND-3550A doesn't skip at all.
Goes off-topic, but I'll put it here. Hopefully interesting enough. It is not that easy. With all readily available CD-Rs, a burner will write pits/lands at a defined size (I'll omit Plextor GigaRec, Sanyo HD-Burn and Yamaha Audio Master at this point)
Sadly I'm missing a source for one of the following claims. I have read it somewhere… at least I think so… and it is plausible deduction from what I can link below. But if it is wrong anybody correct me (or the contrary: If anybody has a source to confirm, please do so.)
====
The difference between 700MB/80min and 650MB/74min blanks is the track pitch. By using all tolerances to the maximum, a tighter spiral groove can be used… while any working CD drive must still be able to follow the track. For whatever reason, ATIP allows for a capacity of 79min, 59sec and 74 frames(sectors) at maximum, totaling in 359999 sectors (which is about 703MB in Mode 1 with 2048 bytes per sector).
Anything beyond that should not be stored in ATIP data (which is why almost all 90min/100min CD-R report themselves as 80min requiring overburn for using the extra capacity). 90min/100min definitely exceed the tolerances by further decreasing track pitch and no drive is guaranteed or obliged to read/write such CDs (Pressing plants do offer audio CDs with up to 90min as well, but they will demand you to sign, that you take all responsibility if your customers encounter problems).
Now to the part where I'm not sure (can't provide source): Your statement above is – to my knowledge – not really wrong (though also not correct for the transition 650MB/74min→700MB/80min). I think there have been blanks that will make any CD burner write longer pits/lands. A consumer writer is far to imprecise to keep rotational speed at defined accuracy on it's own and needs to sync itself with… surprise… ATIP. Absolute time in pregroove. The minuscule pregroove wobble (amplitude of 0.03µm compared to the pit width of 0.6µm) shall be detected as 22050Hz frequency running at 1x speed. Producing a pregroove with slightly longer spacial period will force the drive into slightly higher rotational speed.
For simplicity assume a very old writer supporting 1x speed. With such a special CD-R, the linear velocity is 1.4m/s instead of 1.2m/s. Each pit/land is slightly stretched compared to normal.
Now do a bit of math:
1.2/1.4≈0.857
0.857*74min≈63.5min
550MB/63min CD-R existed at some point, but they are almost impossible to get: (No, I'll not buy this! This price is insane!!) https://www.ebay.com/itm/185763963846
In practice almost all CD-ROM and CD-R(W) use the 1.2m/s linear velocity to maximize available memory. I do have some pressed CDs deviating from that though. Interesting side note here: The last sentence with the very small allowed deviation across the whole disc is equal to the statement: "A SecuROM New ≥v4.8 disc is NOT a CD-ROM!"
After this long text, back to the PS1:
I would love to know how the PS1 reacts to the insanely expensive and rare 63min/550MB CD-R
I said in a previous comment, Sony only gaurenteed that 70min CD-Rs would even work in the launch/pre-launch dev units when giving advice to developers in 94/95. So the 63 min discs would probably work great. The 70min ones are not that terrible in price but still high.
Post automatically merged:
Adding to this, I’m pretty sure that ‘63min’ is indeed an option to burn CD-Rs with using the original Sony developer tools/Sony supported burner from pre-launch/just after launch. See, there is a BBS archive of developer/Sony rep/official programs from 94-95 that is archived on a the internet (how blessed are we!) https://psx.arthus.net/sdk/Psy-Q/DOCS/BBS/scea_bbs.pdf should contain this, if not maybe the SCEI or SCEE BBS in that same parent directory should contain such info. It’s been quite a while but I did look at these archives to figure out why it was such a pain to burn backups that worked as well as the real CD-ROM discs released.
It’s so interesting to see all of these developers who both had internet, an official dev kit/debug/prototype hardware/real hardware, an official license to develop for the console etc. all in 1994/1995. The discussion is intellegent, poking holes in the (admirably rushed) documentation, hardware, and game publishing policies.
Lol I keep going into a rant about how insane this console was in 1994. It was game changing. It brought us the world of gaming today.
I said in a previous comment, Sony only gaurenteed that 70min CD-Rs would even work in the launch/pre-launch dev units when giving advice to developers in 94/95. So the 63 min discs would probably work great. The 70min ones are not that terrible in price but still high.
Sadly can't do any longer tests this morning. Just remembered I have a legit "Fear Effect" – this game should be a good testing candidate – and copied CD1 with GigaRec 0.8 on a 650MB/74min CD-R.
That is as near I can come to having/buying those insanely expensive CD-R.
If anybody is willing to do such (doubt anybody would pay so much for a bunch of old CD-R), the chances for it to work are good. Larger pit size is no problem for the PS1. The copy loads beautifully on my SCPH-1002 with still not refurbished drive. Intro video plays without stuttering.
Agreed: Those rare blanks would probably work great.
Edit:
The Yamaha CRW-F1 will stretch the pits exactly by the amount that the result will run at 1.4m/s rather than standard 1.2m/s with AudioMaster Mode. But as far as I know the function is strictly limited to audio CDs and will not be applied on data projects.
The Plextor Premium 2 might or might not apply it on data mode (it is an option on the GigaRec tab of Plextools Pro)
Having neither of those two writers, I'm limited to GigaRec in "reverse mode" – which is either stretching too little (setting 0.9) or too much (setting 0.8).
I will play Fear Effect for an hour or so once I'm able to do this and update this post (or reply if anybody else posted in the mean time). Currently I'm often physically exhausted and unable to handle much. Today my sparse concentration went into testing four newly aquired drives, two LG GDR-8163b and two LG GDR-8162b with RawDump. Looking promising so far. Seems I have now 5 PC drives for dumping GC/Wii discs.
Sadly can't do any longer tests this morning. Just remembered I have a legit "Fear Effect" – this game should be a good testing candidate – and copied CD1 with GigaRec 0.8 on a 650MB/74min CD-R.
That is as near I can come to having buying those insanely expensive CD-R.
If anybody is willing to do such (doubt anybody would pay so much for a bunch of old CD-R), the chances for it to work are good. Larger pit size is no problem for the PS1. The copy loads beautifully on my SCPH-1002 with still not refurbished drive. Intro video plays without stuttering.
Agreed: Those rare blanks would probably work great.
The console was optimized for a 72 minute seek table in the CD-ROM firmware of all consoles according to the no cash psx spx. That of course doesn’t mean it can’t do 80 minutes, but it is optimized for 72 minute discs, which did exist around launch (higher capacity discs like 74 min also existed around this time, even some developers from 1995 were asking if such disc would work in their dev units).
I really do wonder if 70 vs 63 would really see any difference because of the above.
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