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Can Donald Trump become President Again?

Dark_Ansem

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Oh, they certainly treat him differently - they don’t want to wear egg on their faces for the third time in a row over yet another manufactured controversy. Nothing obtuse about it.

If you're talking about the impeachment, the only eggs in face arw the Republicans, who actually convicted Bill Clinton for some lousy oral sex and refuse to convict Trump for treason. But once again, morality, coherence and justice have never been Conservative virtues.
 
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Stone_Wings

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It’s not even “that’s not what he meant”, that’s literally not what he said, and there’s written record of it. Funny you mention reading comprehension, given that yours is lacking. You didn’t “call” anything so much as you’re unfamiliar with the transcript, which is not surprising.

The transcript it literally the exact same as the phone call itself. Wtf are you even getting at with this? That's your defense? "You didn't read the transcript!" LOL! This has absolutely nothing to do with any reading issue on my end. This goes straight back to you and the tired af "He didn't mean that!" bullshit. I listened to the entire phone call. I don't need to also read the script. I heard what was said by Trumps own mouth, not something written by a 3rd party. Your "But but but you didn't read the transcript!" thing is already old. Have anything else? Oh, wait, this must have been what Rudy meant by "Truth isn't truth" and what Trump was talking about when he said, "What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening." Right? LOL! What Trump said is right there in the call itself and in the transcript (if it's an accurate transcript). 100% case of "That's not what he meant!"-ism. Stop playing dumb. I know it's the easiest excuse to use, but you guys use it for EVERY damn thing that comes out of his mouth. "Oh! That's not what he was saying!" You HAVE to have something better. You're right. It's all right in the transcript. Trump could murder someone right in front of you, and if Trump said it never happened, you'd insist it never happened.

Why do you people continue to worship this guy? It's amusing. Cult is cult.
 
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Xzi

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All evidence needs to be gathered, yet you seem to have no problem passing judgement before he was even accused of anything.
The hell are you talking about? He's accused of fomenting an attempted insurrection, one which we all saw happen on live TV.

And yes, he either intimidated dictators or made friends with them.
He exclusively made friends with dictators, and gave them tons of concessions without receiving anything in return. That's not how a strong leader operates.
 
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Foxi4

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The transcript it literally the exact same as the phone call itself. Wtf are you even getting at with this? That's your defense? "You didn't read the transcript!" LOL! This has absolutely nothing to do with any reading issue on my end. This goes straight back to you and the tired af "He didn't mean that!" bullshit. I listened to the entire phone call. I don't need to also read the script. I heard what was said by Trumps own mouth, not something written by a 3rd party. Your "But but but you didn't read the transcript!" thing is already old. Have anything else? Oh, wait, this must have been what Rudy meant by "Truth isn't truth" and what Trump was talking about when he said, "What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening." Right? LOL! What Trump said is right there in the call itself and in the transcript (if it's an accurate transcript). 100% case of "That's not what he meant!"-ism. Stop playing dumb. I know it's the easiest excuse to use, but you guys use it for EVERY damn thing that comes out of his mouth. "Oh! That's not what he was saying!" You HAVE to have something better. You're right. It's all right in the transcript. Trump could murder someone right in front of you, and if Trump said it never happened, you'd insist it never happened.

Why do you people continue to worship this guy? It's amusing. Cult is cult.
…are you having trouble reading too, then? I don’t exactly know what you’re talking about, your post is word salad, but I’ll gather what I can before I finish the conversation with you. If you listened to the phone call then you wouldn’t be saying what you’re saying now, unless you have severe memory issues or trouble with comprehension skills. For the record, here’s the transcript:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/03/...affensperger-phone-call-transcript/index.html

Now, this is a big ask since the conversation took an hour, so I don’t expect you to read it, but I’m posting it for context. The conversation touches on several issues Trump had with the process, most of which have been resolved since (late night ballot drops, multiple scanning, dead voters etc. - various assorted concerns that were on the news at the time) - those did not affect the final tally, but Trump doesn’t know that since he’s not a vote tabulator. He asks Raffenspberger to “get to the bottom of this” because he doesn’t believe the final count is accurate. He mentions the number of votes he lost by and, in the same breath, specifies that he believes he’ll find more fraudulent votes than that. Y’know. Like *I said the conversation went*. At no point in the entire exchange does Trump threaten Raffenspberger with any physical or political repercussions for not auditing the result again. He does not request any fraudulent votes to be added to the tally either. He specifically requests inspection of existing votes, via signature verification, because he’s under the impression that some of the existing ballots are fraudulent. That’s the exact opposite of what the statute states. The *only* request Trump insists on throughout the phone call is signature verification in Fulton County. The votes he purports to “find” there are just that. That, in the wording of the Georgia statute, is the exonerating factor, and he’s unlikely to be hit with a charge that sticks over the phone call. There’s really no point in continuously groaning about this if you have selective memory, or can’t recall the actual conversation that took place. There’s nothing more to discuss here - you can keep accusing him of things he did not request, but I don’t have to comment on it.
If you're talking about the impeachment, the only eggs in face arw the Republicans, who actually convicted Bill Clinton for some lousy oral sex and refuse to convict Trump for treason. But once again, morality, coherence and justice have never been Conservative virtues.
Bill Clinton was impeached for lying to congress, not “a sex thing”. Nobody cares about his scepter getting polished by interns, that wasn’t the issue. He was indeed caught in a cleverly constructed trap, but ultimately he’s the one who lied under oath. Shame, considering I quite liked the guy as a president.
 
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Stone_Wings

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…are you having trouble reading too, then? I don’t exactly know what you’re talking about, your post is word salad, but I’ll gather what I can before I finish the conversation with you. If you listened to the phone call then you wouldn’t be saying what you’re saying now, unless you have severe memory issues or trouble with comprehension skills. For the record, here’s the transcript:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/03/...affensperger-phone-call-transcript/index.html

Now, this is a big ask since the conversation took an hour, so I don’t expect you to read it, but I’m posting it for context. The conversation touches on several issues Trump had with the process, most of which have been resolved since (late night ballot drops, multiple scanning, dead voters etc. - various assorted concerns that were on the news at the time) - those did not affect the final tally, but Trump doesn’t know that since he’s not a vote tabulator. He asks Raffenspberger to “get to the bottom of this” because he doesn’t believe the final count is accurate. He mentions the number of votes he lost by and, in the same breath, specifies that he believes he’ll find more fraudulent votes than that. Y’know. Like *I said the conversation went*. At no point in the entire exchange does Trump threaten Raffenspberger with any physical or political repercussions for not auditing the result again. He does not request any fraudulent votes to be added to the tally either. He specifically requests inspection of existing votes, via signature verification, because he’s under the impression that some of the existing ballots are fraudulent. That’s the exact opposite of what the statute states. The *only* request Trump insists on throughout the phone call is signature verification in Fulton County. The votes he purports to “find” there are just that. That, in the wording of the Georgia statute, is the exonerating factor, and he’s unlikely to be hit with a charge that sticks over the phone call. There’s really no point in continuously groaning about this if you have selective memory, or can’t recall the actual conversation that took place. There’s nothing more to discuss here - you can keep accusing him of things he did not request, but I don’t have to comment on it.

Bill Clinton was impeached for lying to congress, not “a sex thing”. Nobody cares about his scepter getting polished by interns, that wasn’t the issue. He was indeed caught in a cleverly constructed trap, but ultimately he’s the one who lied under oath. Shame, considering I quite liked the guy as a president.

"But but but, that's not what he meant!", again? :lol:
 
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Foxi4

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"But but but, that's not what he meant!", again? :lol:
“Literally not what he said or asked for”, again, and anyone can verify that for themselves by just reading what he actually said, yes. I don’t know why you find that amusing considering it directly contradicts what you said - you purport Trump asked Raffenspberger to “find votes for him”. He didn’t do that. Through the exchange he’s talking about finding fraudulent votes, not votes for himself. That’s about all there is to it.
 
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Dark_Ansem

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Bill Clinton was impeached for lying to congress, not “a sex thing”. Nobody cares about his scepter getting polished by interns, that wasn’t the issue. He was indeed caught in a cleverly constructed trap, but ultimately he’s the one who lied under oath. Shame, considering I quite liked the guy as a president.

So, considering that Trump lied to Congress and public far more than Clinton did, why did he escape impeachment twice?
 

Foxi4

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So, considering that Trump lied to Congress and public far more than Clinton did, why did he escape impeachment twice?
When did Trump lie to congress under oath? He also didn’t “escape impeachment” - Trump’s been impeached twice, he was simply acquitted of the charges because there wasn’t ample evidence to prove he’s committed any offense. Congress can move to impeach the sitting president at any time, for any reason - it doesn’t mean anything in isolation and doesn’t bar Trump from running again.
 

Dark_Ansem

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When did Trump lie to congress under oath? He also didn’t “escape impeachment” - Trump’s been impeached twice, he was simply acquitted of the charges because there wasn’t ample evidence to prove he’s committed any offense. Congress can move to impeach the sitting president at any time, for any reason - it doesn’t mean anything in isolation and doesn’t bar Trump from running again.

He escaped impeachment because of a spinless couple of Republicans who relied on procedure devised when the idea of such "types" being POTUS was unthinkable.
 

Foxi4

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He escaped impeachment because of a spinless couple of Republicans who relied on procedure devised when the idea of such "types" being POTUS was unthinkable.
You’re clearly not very familiar with the history of the office then. Not that it matters - if your complaint here is that he wasn’t charged because congress followed the letter of the law then I don’t really know what to tell you. :lol: People don’t get charged with crimes just because you don’t like them.
 

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“Literally not what he said or asked for”, again, and anyone can verify that for themselves by just reading what he actually said, yes. I don’t know why you find that amusing considering it directly contradicts what you said - you purport Trump asked Raffenspberger to “find votes for him”. He didn’t do that. Through the exchange he’s talking about finding fraudulent votes, not votes for himself. That’s about all there is to it.

"But but but, that's not what he meant!", again? :lol:

People don’t get charged with crimes just because you don’t like them.

Yet you're fine with people getting away with crimes because you like them. Funny how that works. Coward Trump wouldn't even testify at his own impeachment hearings because they knew he'd commit perjury every other breath.
 

Foxi4

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"But but but, that's not what he meant!", again? :lol:



Yet you're fine with people getting away with crimes because you like them. Funny how that works. Coward Trump wouldn't even testify at his own impeachment hearings because they knew he'd commit perjury every other breath.
Why would he ever testify before congress? To get trapped in an impeachment trap, like Clinton did? That’d be idiotic on his part. Innocent until proven guilty - he has the same rights as any other American and is under no obligation to testify if he believes that would implicate him somehow. It was congress’ job to collect material evidence of wrong-doing, and they failed to do so, so acquittal was the only correct path forward. As a side note, repeating yourself doesn’t make you right - doubling down on silly is doubly silly, which is precisely why I said that the conversation about the call is effectively over. There are no “but buts” about it, nobody is splitting hairs over what Trump “meant”, or “implied” - he didn’t say what you accuse him of saying, period. It’s never brought up in the call. It’s not open to interpretation. You can continue to be stubborn about it, it’s really no skin off my back. Other than being spammy, your response adds nothing to the conversation, so it’s safe to assume you have no rebuttal and your further input on the matter can be safely ignored.
 
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Probably a good idea to remind ourselves that Trump is still the number one polled possible candidate for 2024. How can be campaign without Twitter though, also how can we know his health won't decline. He is old and fat and at that age two extra years can make a big difference to your health. Biden is slim and looks healthy for his age, he is less likely to have a sudden massive decline in health. And Pete would look like the peak of youth next to either of them. Plus Pete is the perfect opponent against Trump; the country may not have cared about sexism against women, but if Trump attacks a gay man just for being gay then the backlash against him would be huge. Unlike the issue of sexism, constant attacks or insinuations against Pete for being gay would spark a "conversation" about homophobia that won't go away until after the election. Trump would have to choose between appearing weak to his base and not attacking his opponent for being gay, or keep digging a hole deeper for himself by attacking him for being gay. If Hilary was Trump's very perfect opponent, then Trump is Pete's most ideal opponent for the opposite reason, because Trump won't get away with it this time.
 

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Funny you mentioned that, the electoral college is actually being considered redundant in many cases and are being phased out in a handful of states since the voting system in general is fucked no matter how you look at it.
People have this weird obsession with the electoral college, but it existed to solve the communication problem that was solved decades ago.

How could you possibly transmit the result of every single persons vote from all over the country any quicker? ;-)
 

smf

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Why would he ever testify before congress? To get trapped in an impeachment trap, like Clinton did? That’d be idiotic on his part. I
It's only a trap if he's guilty, like Clinton was.

So you admit he IS guilty then.

So, considering that Trump lied to Congress and public far more than Clinton did, why did he escape impeachment twice?
Are you asking why republicans didn't impeach Trump?
 
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Foxi4

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People have this weird obsession with the electoral college, but it existed to solve the communication problem that was solved decades ago.

How could you possibly transmit the result of every single persons vote from all over the country any quicker? ;-)
That’s not the reason why the electoral college was established. The founders wrote at length about their reasoning behind it. It’s intended as a buffer between the population and the selection process which serves two purposes - firstly, it balances the voting power of larger and smaller states to ensure that they’re properly represented in the union. Secondly, a smaller group of electors chosen from the population is more likely to make an informed decision than a mob of people - it’s a presidential election, not a popularity contest. It’s supposed to be about policy, not about whether the candidate is endearing or not. Communication was certainly easier when sending electors as opposed to large shipments of ballots, but that wasn’t the primary concern - the concern was populism. An excerpt from the Federalist 68:
”It was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations. It was also peculiarly desirable to afford as little opportunity as possible to tumult and disorder. This evil was not least to be dreaded in the election of a magistrate, who was to have so important an agency in the administration of the government as the President of the United States. But the precautions which have been so happily concerted in the system under consideration, promise an effectual security against this mischief.”

Talents for low intrigue, and the little arts of popularity, may alone suffice to elevate a man to the first honors in a single State; but it will require other talents, and a different kind of merit, to establish him in the esteem and confidence of the whole Union, or of so considerable a portion of it as would be necessary to make him a successful candidate for the distinguished office of President of the United States.”

-Alexander Hamilton
If communication was the sole reason behind the existence of the electoral college, it would’ve become obsolete with the invention of the telegraph. That, of course, wasn’t the case then, and isn’t the case now.
It's only a trap if he's guilty, like Clinton was.

So you admit he IS guilty then.
Plenty of innocent people in prison. You should never testify in your own defense unless absolutely, positively necessary, and only under the advice of an attorney. This is court proceedings 101 - “if you’re innocent then you have nothing to hide” is a tired argument. Either they have evidence or they don’t - prosecutors are not your friends. “Nothing to hide” is the weakest of weak sauce - come up with something better. Refusing to aid the prosecution is not an admission of guilt, it’s the exercise of basic legal rights. Every attorney on the planet will tell you to avoid the stand like the plague if you can help it - prosecutors are in court to win, not to uncover truth. The same applies to congressional committees, except they’re less qualified than actual prosecutors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument
 
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smf

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That’s not the reason why the electoral college was established. The founders wrote at length about their reasoning behind it. It’s intended as a buffer between the population and the selection process which serves two purposes - firstly, it balances the voting power of larger and smaller states to ensure that they’re properly represented in the union, secondly a smaller group of electors chosen from the population is more likely to make an informed decision than a mob of people - it’s a presidential election, not a popularity contest. Communication was certainly easier when sending electors as opposed to large shipments of ballots, but that wasn’t the primary concern - the concern was populism. An excerpt from the Federalist 68:

If communication was the sole reason behind the existence of the electoral college, it would’ve become obsolete with the invention of the telegraph. That, of course, wasn’t the case then, and isn’t the case now.
Right, their reason for doing it was corrupt and is designed to foster tribalism to make it easier to control people.

Why for example should a smaller state have as much say as a larger state? Are the people who live in a larger state not as deserving of representation individually? Each person is equal. The idea that states are homogeneous is wrong now, if it wasn't wrong before. Especially with the rise in communication, so you can share views with people outside of the state.

But there wasn't really an alternative at the time, so arguing against it was kinda pointless. People (including Trump) have spoken against the electoral college. People will resist change until they don't, I think we are seeing a shift towards abandoning it.

It's only the www that has created the infrastructure necessary to allow people to vote electronically, the telegraph would not have cut it. Access to the www has only really become ubiquitous in the last decade.

Republicans have been meddling with electoral law to try to further exploit the electoral college. Which should alarm republicans as well as democrats.
 
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Foxi4

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Right, their reason for doing it was corrupt and is designed to foster tribalism to make it easier to control people.

Why for example should a smaller state have as much say as a larger state? Are the people who live in a larger state not as deserving of representation individually? Each person is equal. The idea that states are homogeneous is wrong now, if it wasn't wrong before. Especially with the rise in communication, so you can share views with people outside of the state.

But there wasn't really an alternative at the time, so arguing against it was kinda pointless.

It's only the www that has created the infrastructure necessary to allow people to vote electronically, the telegraph would not have cut it. Access to the www has only really become ubiquitous in the last decade.
Because the United States are a republic that consists of a number of states with varied interests which do not necessarily align. What’s good for New York might not be so great for West Virginia or Texas - in fact, it might even be damaging. As such, a system for rebalancing voting power was devised to avoid a situation wherein a large state with a substantial population dictates policy for the rest of the country with complete disregard to their different circumstances. Not only is it a good system, it’s a shame that it isn’t emulated in other countries. I also maintain that the telegraph would’ve sufficed - it’s really not that hard to transmit two numbers over a length of wire - ballots can be counted locally, and they are counted locally to this day. The telephone made such a transmission even easier, and the Internet makes it trivial indeed - that still doesn’t make the electoral college obsolete since there are other reasons why it exists. Of course there’s something to be said about the U.S. becoming (sadly) increasingly homogenised, with people identifying as American first, and as residents of their particular state second, but that’s a wholly different discussion. The whole premise of the U.S. is a union of states with varied state law and varied interests - if you don’t like one, you can always move to another which suits your expectations better. The U.S. was never meant to be a homogenous federal blob - the states are individual entities, the federal government only exists for the purposes of more overarching activity that encompasses all states.
 

Dark_Ansem

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Are you asking why republicans didn't impeach Trump?

Not really, just highlighting the hypocrisy and doublethink of right wingers.

You’re clearly not very familiar with the history of the office then. Not that it matters - if your complaint here is that he wasn’t charged because congress followed the letter of the law then I don’t really know what to tell you. :lol: People don’t get charged with crimes just because you don’t like them.

This is entirely false, however. Not to mention your misleading attempt to conflate impeachment and standard criminal proceedings - they are not the same and rely on different rules.

The fact remains that, despite your mental gymnastics, asking someone to find "11800" votes (very precise) is electoral fraud and, in fact, an attack on the US Constitution. "Context", in this case, only makes it worse. Why the FBI pisses its pants is another matter.
 
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