Covid-19 vaccine

[WeedZ]

I don't get it. If you've already recovered from Covid and acquired immunity then why get vaccinated? Shouldn't you wait until the vaccines are updated to protect against the new variants with the (currently) vaccine-resistant spike protein?

I'm a nurse, my employer required it. Without any vaccine youre more likely to get it again.

 

[TryXXXWest]

in my region, we just got to the first stage... hope we will go to the next stage soooon

 

[Taleweaver]

Jebus...

In Belgium, today's the first day in which you can volunteer to be a BACKUP recipient (meaning: if someone's called and doesn't show up, they'll invite someone from the backup list). This backup list is also prioritized by age (meaning: older people get priority). Nonetheless, I created an account as soon as possible.

Well...that is: I TRIED to create one. I started at 9AM this morning. There were 140'000 people waiting in front of me. Only just now (nearly 12 hours later), I finally have my account.

Extra fun fact: the vaccination center isn't active yet. Sooo...chances of getting a call soon are about the same as winning the lottery right now.

(EDIT: for the record...Belgium has about 11 million inhabitants, of which little over a million have their first and/or second shot. Of the remaining, I'm fairly sure it's split in half, as this site is for inhabitants of Flanders. So I guess there were about 5-6 million people waiting to create an account. Oh, and I've heard that others had over 300'000 people waiting in line before them, so I'm still rather lucky in this regard ).

 

[plasturion]

I said no before and still consist there's no point. Goverment don't get real against facts, none serious medical debate, lies, placing people into house-jail and don't looking for real exit from this problem still using doubtful tests. If covid eventualy ends they act as they are prepared to release another biological weapon after all this mess. Just improve your immune system. That's all you need. Turn off tv and get out of this communism oppression before it'll be too late. Remember your immune system has second method response to fight with unknown viruses. It should be effective good enough, so vaccine is not necessary.

 

[notimp]

I said no before and still consist there's no point. Goverment don't get real against facts, none serious medical debate, lies, placing people into house-jail and don't looking for real exit from this problem still using doubtful tests. If covid eventualy ends they act as they are prepared to release another biological weapon after all this mess. Just improve your immune system. That's all you need. Turn off tv and get out of this communism oppression before it'll be too late. Remember your immune system has second method response to fight with unknown viruses. It should be effective good enough, so vaccine is not necessary.

Let me step into this and analyze pathologies, because I have nothing better to at the moment..

Governments dont get real against facts - nonsequitor devoid of meaning, but carrying resentment and emotion. This might be true in some cases - not be true in others. Everyone can fill it up with their own meaning, and/or their own resentments. They can even be personal. (Its more effective then.)

No serious medical debates - partly comes from the fact that data doesnt need to be debated, and that you'd not want expert council decision making on this in the open, partly - because people would loose trust (more so than now.. ), partly because you are trying to influence behavior patters, so if you give people an isnight on whats coming, it might influence the outcome, at a certain point, negatively.

Lies - just used as a carrier for emotion

placing people into house jail - creative overamplification of whats happening - people arent urged to stay at home at all times (if they are not proven to be infected (self isolation), at which point you stay at home for about two weeks) --

not looking for a real exit -- false, they have enabled and fasttracked vaccine research (not done any research themselves, but 'aided' companies in the field)

still using doubtful tests -- now here is something that is correct. Publicly used tests, even as a mitigation measure arent very effective. You need tests to know whats going on - as a preventative measure, used past that point, they arent very effective.

then governments are still prepared to release another virus, after this one.. First we get a first glimps into the 'villain' image of the author, which is 'government' and nothing else too distinct - second, its false. While a direct submission from the bat population it was first discovered in to humans is unlikely at this point (virus RNA evolved too much in between), it being created in a lab also is unlikely, due to some mutations that occurred, that seem to be specific to an intermediary host. Covid seems to have evolved into its human to human submittable form, we dont know the entire path yet, is the current position most scientists in the field are holding -- also prone to forces above will shape my life in this way, following sinister motives and... - thinking, which while potentially true, usually isnt very likely. Personal comment -- for how 'planned' everything was in the minds of some, usually not very well informed people -- people actually struggled with a response quite a bit...

Just improve your immune system - its all you need -- issue, you cant. Except for maybe a good sleep schedule, oh and keeping your respiratory system warm, which masks are doing, because Covid apparently replicates faster in a colder respiratory tract, but this plays into a large collection of pseudo scientific nonsense people are usually sold on by scamers - selling you vitamin supplements (eat healty, the end), nutritional supplements, home made miracle cures, ... and so on --

Turn off your tv -- agree, but also turn off your youtube

And get out of communist oppression, before its too late -- now the thing here is a fundamental misunderstanding on how democracy works - people will make those rules for themselves, when the majority deems it useful -- there is literally nothing preventing them. You arent changing any of the fundamental rules/workings of democracies as of now. Well except for the US after an election and gerrymandering/reverse gerrymandering stuff, which they do for years right now - instead of actually changing policies to appeal to more people.. There is also a total neglect of the principle, that you arent doing this for you, but for the people around you (Part of how chances on masks and so on work).

Also - this has a definitive end -- in terms of the harshest measures (lockdowns), because they are so costly. You cant repeat the same measures for five years in a row, and expect the country to compete economically against nations who dont. Also all those measures are the race to fill the time towards vaccinations, with something that lowers infection rates, so less people get infected. The next time, people will already be on the lookout for mutations more actively and vaccine creation will be faster. (At least by a little bit.. )

Just get out and 'get it' your immune system is strong enough. - while statistically correct, talking to young people, statistics doesnt care about you or any other single case, so there is still personal risk that could be higher, personal effects on your health that could be long lasting -- and even more importantly - behavioral measures set currently are aimed at protecting other people (so spread doesnt get out of hand - to the point where hospitals have to let other people die, because they are overrun with cases needing treatment for Covid).


Your immune system has second method response to fight it, also doesnt make any sense. Issue with Covid currently is, that after 60+ death rates spike enormously. And this would be the case every year from now on, if we dont get some form of herd immunity going. Second issue are long term effects, which arent well studied yet.
--


So to correct all the misinformation in one paragraph - ten paragraphs of text were needed. Not at all social media friendly. Oh my.

Also emotional trigger words that drove the direction of the posting were "government, lies, biological warfare, communism, no vaccine needed"

This - is FUD. You dont ignore it, you confront it.

Oh and, no vaccine needed, your immune system is strong enough, also no behavioral measures needed, because thats just "them" controlling you - first lead to a pandemic, and to severe problems in countries that acted late, and or not harsh enough. (Italy as an example.) Because there, and in a few other places (New York, Brasil, ... they actually forged the death count - or simply made it not public anymore... ( https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-brazil-idUSKBN23D0PW ) -- real 'doing nothing' numbers can bee looked at in the case of Brasil (search together with overmortality) (not taking into account population age or population density)) .

If you ignore it, this is not a forum anymore - this is you not caring about the quality of the place you are hanging out in.

 

[Xzi]

If covid eventualy ends they act as they are prepared to release another biological weapon after all this mess.

Just improve your immune system. That's all you need.

Man if only all the people who died of the black plague, Spanish flu, and Polio knew about this one simple trick. /s

 

[plasturion]

Well, if anyone is infected you can still use proper treatment, like virusostatic medicine - amantadine - very effective even in serious cases for covid or hydroxychloroquinum. I've never seen even uv lamps in hospitals dedicated for covid. Where they are?

 

[Lacius]

Well, if anyone is infected you can still use proper treatment, like virusostatic medicine - amantadine - very effective even in serious cases for covid or hydroxychloroquinum. I've never seen even uv lamps in hospitals dedicated for covid. Where they are?

The vaccine is far safer than contracting COVID-19, even when you take into account possible side effects and current COVID-19 treatments. And this doesn't even take into consideration the lives you save by no longer being a likely vector for the virus and not passing it to others. If you're sick with COVID-19, you will probably pass it to others, and them to others, and so on.

Hydroxychloroquine was ruled out as an effective treatment against COVID-19 a long time ago.

 

[KingVamp]

The virus is a bioweapon. So they vaccinate it, just so they can release another bioweapon? Also, apparently the vaccine itself is a bioweapon. Are there bioweapons all the way down?

 

[notimp]

The virus is a bioweapon. So they vaccinate it, just so they can release another bioweapon? Also, apparently the vaccine itself is a bioweapon. Are there bioweapons all the way down?

No, turtles.

On at least somewhat effective, cheap (and therefore available) medication, once you have it - we are getting there, but the risk of you still needing a hospital bed, is still too high in aggregate, to not use other measures as well. Fixed number of beds (pretty much), linear reduction of people not needing to stay at the hospital due to medication, near exponential growth rate - and them being able to spread the disease, three, four days before they show symptoms > means masks (in most countries as a mandate) and social distancing.

Otherwise math doesnt work. Sadly.

edit: Here is the replicates faster in colder respiratory tract news:
https://www.newswise.com/coronavirus/why-sars-cov-2-replicates-better-in-the-upper-respiratory-tract

 

[plasturion]

what i want to add...
Face the facts we still don't know immune system good enough. But second method response of immune system - cellural respons with the lymphocytes t should be more expected with dealing with coronavirus, than creating antibodies that will not be effective with covid mutations.
The problem is time.. virus mutate faster than any good reaserches can be able to do to produce effective vaccine.
About saying different way of getting out from this pseudopandemic problem instead of vaccine is taking in example virisostatic meds with low side effects.. for example taking ivermectin dose once per week profilactic for all the people with higer risk.
Ivermectin and amantadine is prohibited in my country... i wish i could have a choice how to deal with potential infection and protect myself.

 

[notimp]

Face the facts we still don't know immune system good enough. But second method response of immune system - cellural respons with the lymphocytes t should be more expected with dealing with coronavirus, than creating antibodies that will not be effective with covid mutations.

Presuming this means, that the bodies immune system will get a handle on things, once it produces enough lymphocytes.

"Than creating antibodies that will not be effective with covid --" first they are effective, quite effective actually. Its what allowed the president to cough on the steps of the white house mere days after he left Walter Read. Issue -- they are VERY expensive, and very short supply, so 90% of people even currently (decently ok (as in low) infection numbers) arent getting them. Like - ever.
(edit: On some people they dont work (very small percentage), and we dont know why. So yeah, thats fun also.. - but in general, they are very effective.)

Other medications developed/found (like the malaria medication thats cheap and widely available (no patents anymore)) have other vectors to work (havent read up on those yet, but they arent anti bodies).

Vaccines work differently. They trigger your bodies immune response, when no 'dangerous' virus is in your body, so it trains itself to produce immune cells, when it sees that virus again - but using a characteristic with the 'harmless' virus, thats also common with Covid. So if your body sees the virus, its immune response kicks in much faster. Meaning, you wont get sick (symptoms), and ideally you even are immune (you cant spread the virus, because it doesnt replicate in you (enough)).

There are a few ways to achieve this.

1. Kill or incapacitate the original virus, then give it as a vaccine.
Not that great, because if stuff goes wrong, you've given people the real deal. Also especially not ideal for Covid, because working with it in a laboratory environment is highly complicated, so producing more of that stuff, at scale (to then kill it), is kind of out of the question (too expensive).

2. Vector vaccine. You take a harmless influenca virus, thats similar to covid, but not covid (You can also take two and splice them together). You redesign it, so it has a "spike" thats similar to the one of Covid. (Spike protein). Immune system trains on that (vaccine), and then when Covid comes - it produces the same antibodies that already know how to attack a virus with that spike protein. You produce that virus, kill it , and use that for the vaccine. Thats the Johnson and Johnson vaccine, or Sputnik, or AstraZeneca all different approaches and ingredients, but same basic idea and method.

3. mRNA method. You modify the mRNA payload of an existing virus, to produce dead things with that spike on them, so the immune system can train on them, once they get produced by your cells. PRODUCED BY MY CELLS OMG! Neh. Virus reproduces this way in general. It hooks into some of your cells, reproduces itself in high numbers using the 'production bench' of the cell, cell then dies after a while, you are just changing payload. This can be made highly effective, because of - reasons..


Why produce vaccines and not 'medication'. First our best medication (synthetic anti bodies) is _very_ expensive and not readily available (not even for the US much less the world), our second to best medications are far less effective.

Second, that would still have a bunch of people in hospital at once, taking medication (and a bunch of them not needing to go to hospital, but still the growth rate is the issue (them spreading, before they know they have it)).

Third, its more expensive than a vaccine in production.

Vaccine is 1 or 2 shots, and you are done for a year (actually about 6 months, but if you set the vaccination period into the second half of a year (when its getting colder) and you have mass immunity going for a while, that might very well be enough for an entire year at least (even with mutations), fingers crossed).

But vaccine only is 70% effective! (Some 90%.) Thats why you give most of them twice (few months separated), then its effective enough. That that number got high play in the public discussion, was mostly useless. (If you are afraid of getting vaccinated twice, get the one, where you only need one shot, I guess (Johnson & Johnson in the US)). Also stuff with how that percentage is measured, Its not that 10% of people are still getting it, its a flat out 70-90% reduction in infections towards a control population, so percentage of people for whom it 'doesnt work' on a first shot is _far_ smaller than 10-30 percent in the overall population. (Probably single digit, probably less than one percent (someone look up that number.. ) )

 

[Alexander1970]

Here a Reason,why we have to go to Testing/Vaccination:

https://www.krone.at/2386040
(German)

Every second Austrian hardly ever or never goes for a corona test.
More and more people seem to refuse to deal with the issue altogether, explains researcher Bernhard Kittel.

The Article is about "Research" from this Mister Kittel.
(Not really worth to read.....)

...but one important Sentence for us Test/Vacciantionrefusers:

"Jene, die sich testen lassen, seien jünger und besser gebildet, erklärt der Wissenschafter, der auch Anzeichen eines Normwandels ortet."

"Those who get tested are younger and better educated, explains the scientist, who also detects signs of a change in norms."

Well....

 

[BlazeMasterBM]

I don't exactly trust it yet, and I'm young and healthy. Immune system should work fine for me.

 

[Xzi]

I don't exactly trust it yet, and I'm young and healthy. Immune system should work fine for me.

Cases and deaths are on the rise primarily for the 18-34 age group in most parts of the country right now. We've recently also got data showing that about a third of COVID survivors come out of it with neurological/mental damage. At any age, catching it is a huge gamble. The younger you are, however, the less likely you are to have an adverse reaction to the vaccine. And the odds of that are already really low for older age groups.

Your body, your choice of course, but your brain still has several years of development ahead. I wouldn't take any unnecessary risks with it.

 

[Lacius]

I don't exactly trust it yet, and I'm young and healthy. Immune system should work fine for me.

You're taking a lot more of a personal risk by not getting the vaccine. In addition, you're risking the health of others by not being vaccinated.

 

[BlazeMasterBM]

You're taking a lot more of a personal risk by not getting the vaccine. In addition, you're risking the health of others by not being vaccinated.

well if I'm being honest I don't really trust the vaccine at all lol. Especially the way in America they're going to make it mandatory for travel

 

[Xzi]

well if I'm being honest I don't really trust the vaccine at all lol. Especially the way in America they're going to make it mandatory for travel

It's the destination countries which require you to have your vaccines up-to-date, and this isn't a new rule put in place for COVID-19. International travel has always had these types of requirements to help prevent certain localized viruses and diseases from being spread around the globe.

 

[BlazeMasterBM]

It's the destination countries which require you to have your vaccines up-to-date, and this isn't a new rule put in place for COVID-19. International travel has always had these types of requirements to help prevent certain localized viruses and diseases from being spread around the globe.

yes but many American states are beginning to consider/ enact this rule. And it's new for this vaccine. And if I'm being honest, I don't trust it at all. Or the pandemic. Doesn't add up to me.

 

[Xzi]

yes but many American states are beginning to consider/ enact this rule. And it's new for this vaccine. And if I'm being honest, I don't trust it at all. Or the pandemic. Doesn't add up to me.

Most states already had a 14-day quarantine rule in place for those traveling across state lines. Proof of vaccination just allows you to skip that.

A virus doesn't care whether you trust it or not. Surely you've at least had one friend or family member catch it by now. If not, you're extremely fortunate and should desire to keep your household infection-free.

This probably won't be the last pandemic I see in my lifetime, and so the chances of someone your age seeing another are even higher. Lots of factors play into that, two in particular being the way we treat the Earth and our livestock.