Is hydroxycloroquine really efficient at treating covid-19?

[UltraSUPRA]

 

[crimpshrine]

A new piece from Harvey Risch - Professor of epidemiology at Yale

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...sk-patients-and-saying-otherwise-is-dangerous

Hydroxychloroquine works in high-risk patients, and saying otherwise is dangerous


Every randomized controlled trial to date that has looked at early outpatient treatment has involved low-risk patients, patients who are not generally treated. In these studies, so few untreated control patients have required hospitalization that significant differences were not found. There has been only one exception: In a study done in Spain with low-risk patients, a small number of high-risk nursing home patients were included. For those patients, the medications cut the risk of a bad outcome in half.

I reiterate: If doctors, including any of my Yale colleagues, tell you that scientific data show that hydroxychloroquine does not work in outpatients, they are revealing that they can’t tell the difference between low-risk patients who are not generally treated and high-risk patients who need to be treated as quickly as possible. Doctors who do not understand this difference should not be treating COVID-19 patients.

I can only speculate about the cause of the FDA’s recalcitrance. Hydroxychloroquine is an inexpensive, generic medication. Unlike certain profit-generating, patented medications, which have been promiscuously touted on the slimmest of evidence, hydroxychloroquine has no natural financial constituency. No one will get rich from it.

 

[Lacius]

A new piece from Harvey Risch - Professor of epidemiology at Yale

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...sk-patients-and-saying-otherwise-is-dangerous

Hydroxychloroquine works in high-risk patients, and saying otherwise is dangerous


Every randomized controlled trial to date that has looked at early outpatient treatment has involved low-risk patients, patients who are not generally treated. In these studies, so few untreated control patients have required hospitalization that significant differences were not found. There has been only one exception: In a study done in Spain with low-risk patients, a small number of high-risk nursing home patients were included. For those patients, the medications cut the risk of a bad outcome in half.

I reiterate: If doctors, including any of my Yale colleagues, tell you that scientific data show that hydroxychloroquine does not work in outpatients, they are revealing that they can’t tell the difference between low-risk patients who are not generally treated and high-risk patients who need to be treated as quickly as possible. Doctors who do not understand this difference should not be treating COVID-19 patients.

I can only speculate about the cause of the FDA’s recalcitrance. Hydroxychloroquine is an inexpensive, generic medication. Unlike certain profit-generating, patented medications, which have been promiscuously touted on the slimmest of evidence, hydroxychloroquine has no natural financial constituency. No one will get rich from it.

Harvey Risch is a partisan hack, and he's not an expert in infectious disease epidemiology.

 

[crimpshrine]

Harvey Risch is a partisan hack, and he's not an expert in infectious disease epidemiology.

So is there something you claim from his newest article that is wrong? Care to share that?

 

[CyrilCommando]

What a question to ask GBATemp.

 

[GhostLatte]

Just remember that those who think it’s effective probably also inject themselves with bleach.

 

[crimpshrine]

Just remember that those who think it’s effective probably also inject themselves with bleach.

It is effective.

Recent analysis:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893920302817#

India:
https://indianexpress.com/article/i...19-cases-say-docs-as-analysis-begins-6486049/

Italy:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971220306007

 

[crimpshrine]

Another great website with a lot of data world wide related to treatment with hydroxychloroquine.

They note references and touch with links and documentation on pretty much every country using this that were and continue to successfully treat covid-19 with HCQ and in some cases the cocktail. (Zinc + antibiotic)

https://hcqtrial.com/

What I keep coming back to as I see all of this data, is how is this being used in so many places in the world without reflecting the alarming report we got from the FDA here.

The FDA's report was basically, don't use it it seems to cause more problems and even death.

It just does not make any sense to me, other than like others have said to take these drugs it's like 20-30 bucks worth of meds. Where as the other alternative treatments are 3K+


Like for example in Kazakhstan even their doctors have the need to justify the continued use of this based on the politicization that has been made over this all because Trump said it was good and people can't possibly let that be true:

This is from the end of June:

Kazakhstan's leading infectious disease physician Dinagul Baesheva


She went on to say that given the risks and benefits hydroxychloroquine is used in a COVID-19 patient for five days. She insisted good results had been observed after the treatment with hydroxychloroquine. That is why, in her words, it is included in the medical protocol.

 

[Xzi]

Seven different randomized scientific studies from five different sources which show no benefit in using hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19, two of which measure its effectiveness against placebos:

New England Journal of Medicine

New England Journal of Medicine (2)

Annals of Internal Medicine

Clinical Infectious Diseases

Recovery

MedRxIV

MedRxIV (2)

Anecdotal evidence from individuals who may or may not have a financial interest in the sales of this drug, along with politically biased sources such as the Washington Examiner are one thing, but studies which properly follow the scientific method (and thus have results which can be reproduced) are entirely another.

 

[Lacius]

So is there something you claim from his newest article that is wrong? Care to share that?

Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

 

[omgcat]

I'd abandon this thread, the creators are just sealioning.

"Sealioning (also spelled sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment which consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity.[1][2][3][4] It may take the form of 'incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate' ". waaaaaay too much shift of goal posts and "but muh hypothetical". it's obvious the OP never intended on even thinking about shifting their opinion or worldview. it's just a thinly veiled attempt at pushing wedge issues to try to radicalize the forum.

hell the term "holocough" is 100% a red-flag.

Holocough: An anti-Semitic and racist term relating to the use of COVID-19 against Jewish people or immigrants in order to imitate the holocaust.

 

[crimpshrine]

Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

That's what I figured LOL, thanks for your expertise with this.

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Seven different randomized scientific studies from five different sources which show no benefit in using hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19, two of which measure its effectiveness against placebos:

New England Journal of Medicine

New England Journal of Medicine (2)

Annals of Internal Medicine

Clinical Infectious Diseases

Recovery

MedRxIV

MedRxIV (2)

Anecdotal evidence from individuals who may or may not have a financial interest in the sales of this drug, along with politically biased sources such as the Washington Examiner are one thing, but studies which properly follow the scientific method (and thus have results which can be reproduced) are entirely another.

Interesting, but many more show a benefit that have been peer reviewed. Especially for EARLY treatment. Most negatives have been too late when treatment starts. Which is Echoed by Harvey Risch - honored Yale epidemiologist

HCQ + the other drugs required total cost of treatment is around 30.00 the others are over 3K each for treatment. So I could definitely see a financial interest for some in discrediting the treatment.

 

[The Real Jdbye]

What about this? Any conclusive news on if this actually works?
https://news.yahoo.com/rlf-100-aviptadil-clinical-trial-200000564.html

 

[crimpshrine]

I'd abandon this thread, the creators are just sealioning.

"Sealioning (also spelled sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment which consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity.[1][2][3][4] It may take the form of 'incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate' ". waaaaaay too much shift of goal posts and "but muh hypothetical". it's obvious the OP never intended on even thinking about shifting their opinion or worldview. it's just a thinly veiled attempt at pushing wedge issues to try to radicalize the forum.

hell the term "holocough" is 100% a red-flag.

Holocough: An anti-Semitic and racist term relating to the use of COVID-19 against Jewish people or immigrants in order to imitate the holocaust.

Discussing an ongoing form of treatment that is still actively being used in many places in the world that is successful is not trolling.

None of the doctors commenting on the success of these drugs in their country are using terms you would find antisemitic or racist.

Recent analysis:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893920302817#

India:
https://indianexpress.com/article/i...19-cases-say-docs-as-analysis-begins-6486049/

Italy:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971220306007

Many other countries success has been documented on this site:

https://hcqtrial.com/

Harvey Risch - Multiple honors - Professor of epidemiology at Yale

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...sk-patients-and-saying-otherwise-is-dangerous

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

What about this? Any conclusive news on if this actually works?
https://news.yahoo.com/rlf-100-aviptadil-clinical-trial-200000564.html

I have not read much on that, one but it also looks good from that article. Sounds like it blocks cytokines. I am no doctor but have read that there are natural remedies that also help do that. And it looks like this is a good drug for later symptoms that are most responsible for killing people with the virus. Which is good.

I know that in many cases remdesivir is also used at least in the USA, but is considerably more expensive. This might be one of the ones I have seen referenced that has positive results also. It is probably included in the high cost category given it's age.

Actually it looks like it is, the inhaled version I read about:

FDA grants inhaled use IND for RLF-100 (aviptadil) to treat patients with moderate and severe COVID-19 aiming to prevent progression to respiratory failure

 

[Deleted User]

This thread has derailed hard.



The new "normal" - A Human Zoo

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

The fake uni.

 

[crimpshrine]

This thread has derailed hard.



The new "normal" - A Human Zoo

The only replies I see that indicate it derailing are responses like yours that are not sticking to the subject

The original point to this thread, "Is Hydoxycloroquine really efficient at treading covid-19"

is still actively being discussed with recent evidence. The virus is not over yet.

 

[Deleted User]

The only replies I see that indicate it derailing are responses like yours that are not sticking to the subject

The original point to this thread, "Is Hydoxycloroquine really efficient at treading covid-19"

is still actively being discussed with recent evidence. The virus is not over yet.

Really, is GBATemp the appropriate place to talk about politics or a cure for a virus? No, it's not. I guess they allow such threads for more traffic/views/users.

The most important thing is to be healthy and have a good immune system. Also, don't get paranoid over the media's scaremongering of the Corona (not the Mexican beer, of course).

God knows how many people actually died from the virus than those numbers officially reported. Trump isn't very trustworthy, but I agree with him about the WHO.

 

[crimpshrine]

Really, is GBATemp the appropriate place to talk about politics or a cure for a virus? No, it's not. I guess they allow such threads for more traffic/views/users.

The most important thing is to be healthy and have a good immune system. Also, don't get paranoid over the media's scaremongering of the Corona (not the Mexican beer, of course).

God knows how many people actually died from the virus than those numbers officially reported. Trump isn't very trustworthy, but I agree with him about the WHO.

Not sure I get the "is this the appropriate place to talk about a cure for a virus"

Someone created the thread to discuss the topic that you came into the thread saying it derailed on, when it had not. Other than what you added. It is still regarding HCQ, and how it is still being used within the world successfully to treat those with Covid-19.

Seems kind of hypocritical if you ask me. Not sure why you would even want to post in this thread if you feel the way you do. Unless it is to try to stir things up.

I do have to say I agree 100% with you in staying healthy and not taking the virus itself too seriously but nothing wrong with pointing out factual information.

 

[omgcat]

Really, is GBATemp the appropriate place to talk about politics or a cure for a virus? No, it's not. I guess they allow such threads for more traffic/views/users.

The most important thing is to be healthy and have a good immune system. Also, don't get paranoid over the media's scaremongering of the Corona (not the Mexican beer, of course).

God knows how many people actually died from the virus than those numbers officially reported. Trump isn't very trustworthy, but I agree with him about the WHO.

you can figure a great approximation by looking at excess death rates.

so far our excess deaths have reached over 200k in 7 months.

 

[UltraSUPRA]

you can figure a great approximation by looking at excess death rates.

so far our excess deaths have reached over 200k in 7 months.

Excess deaths don't exist when the virus is unavoidable.