Men’s Group wins lawsuit. U.S. Women may be forced to be drafted to wars.

[GhostLatte]

Feminists wanted equal rights. Don't see nothing wrong with women being forced into the draft.

 

[Hanafuda]

Only tangentially related, but made me laugh

 

[H1B1Esquire]

Whoa, my people, I'm pretty drunk right now--after reading this and critically thinking about your statements, I say:
Let's take it down a notch
Everybody, be cool (Samuel L. Jackson face next to a wallet)

Okay, there are some good points, but it'll come down to the simple fact a woman who would be combat-ready would probably deal with a menstrual-related issue at some point in their career--there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Maybe the advancement of HRT (yada yada) needs to be a calculated factor for females who wish to serve (made known on the day of drafting) on the front lines versus taking the much needed and still highly touted positions of chef and nurse.

TL;DR:
In fifty years, war won't be a problem.
In a few years, war might be a problem.
-H1B1Esquire

 

[Anoux]

I'm noticing there isn't an argument against this ruling that can't also be used as an argument against the draft in general.


The men's rights movement is largely misogynistic and usually supports inequality skewed in favor of men. Since men aren't a marginalized group, the movement typically doesn't address any real issues.

I mean, you're blatantly wrong there - and we can just look at things like the court system and their bias against men and fathers, the DRAFT itself before this lawsuit, the fact that rape laws themselves (especially in places like the UK) are defined against men and the fact that if the police are called for domestic violence that a woman is perpetrating, the man is frequently the one arrested and plenty more. Oh, or the fact that the gender gap in prison sentencing for the same crime is vastly higher than the racial gap, the gap in work place deaths, the disparity in both acceptance into and graduation from schools, the fact that the way young men and women act the man is diagnosed with a problem (or punished) for existing (fiddling with things is what young men do, it doesn't mean they have adhd because they don't act like typical women in the classroom). Oh, also laws against genital mutilation.

Would it be marginalization to force blacks into a war that whites voted for but don't have to serve in? If yes, then that is the same case as before this lawsuit.

I've never seen anything from within the men's rights movement that is "largely misogynistic" or "supporting inequality skewed in favor of men" the best I've seen is a cherry picking or taking statements wholly out of context. (or people wrongfully conflating pickup artists with the men's rights moment)

What this comes down to is either everyone is draft-able, thus getting the right to vote, government aid, etc or we abolish the draft and the rights/benefits stay.

Because women are a liability on the battlefield. Also, as long as there are able-bodied men, it is unjust to draft women.

Liability, maybe I've seen studies about how it causes performance degradation in squads, but last I saw there was more research needed for unisex female squads. Unjust, nope - not as long as there are rights that come with the responsibility of fighting for your country against your will that are given for free to another group. Your augment, when given a "subtle" shift, would be very racist - and one premise and conclusion I also disagree with. Much like how I disagree with the notion that everyone knows that men should always die first.

 

[Xzi]

People need to realize the reason why they made this decision was because of precedent. Women have been serving in combat roles for like two decades now, and somehow our military hasn't collapsed yet. The military doesn't have the luxury of turning away people who want to serve, as recruitment rates have been continuously declining for some time now.

 

[Natural]

Thoughts? Okay, it shouldn't be like that, but if it happens everyone will deal it with it, 'done. (IMO a better question is if this is right.)

Why should it not be like that? Men had to sign the draft for the right to vote so why shouldn't women?

 

[Hanafuda]

It's a de-railer to bring this up, but it's still relevant to the conversation here. What's a "woman?" What a "man?" We've entered a twilight zone where one can choose to be one or the other, so under such circumstances does any of this even matter? Any man can be a woman, so "feminism" is pointless. Any woman can be a man, so "toxic masculinity" is a moot point. Every person should be required to register for the draft, all competitive activities should be open to all participants, there should be no girls' schools, boys' schools, nor any scholarships awarded based on being either a male or female, etc. A 100% clean slate, winner-takes-all world. What could go wrong?

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/feb/24/terry-miller-andraya-yearwood-transgender-sprinter/

 

[Xzi]

It's a de-railer to bring this up, but it's still relevant to the conversation here. What's a "woman?" What a "man?"

It is a de-railer, but it's also not relevant to this conversation.

Any man can be a woman, so "feminism" is pointless. Any woman can be a man, so "toxic masculinity" is a moot point.

More get-out-of-thinking-free fallacies. As if transgendered individuals don't also receive targeted discrimination. That has nothing to do whatsoever with feminism or toxic masculinity, you're just lumping everything you dislike together.

 

[SG854]

We haven’t used the Draft in a long time, since we now have an all voluntary army. It’s more of a last resort thing when a Country is fighting for their life in a big war and run out of voluntary soidiers.

Likely if Women are forced to register they won’t actually have to serve their draft duties like many males today that are on the draft.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I'll probably get some heat for this but bear with me for a second.

Here's the thing : if feminism is really about equal rights, then it is a great day for feminism. And if it isn't... Then it's not really worth pursuing.

The thing with rights is that it always comes with responsibilities. And the way I've come to learn about feminism is that there's quite some push in areas where women are either behind or perceived behind, they lobby hard to even up. These are other discussions and heavily debated ones. But in other fields - and this is one of them - there's open discrimination for no other reason than that this was always the case

I'm also reminded of the first South Park movie. In it there's a war. And the American side just makes sure that all the afro Americans are in the front lines (even strapped to the tanks).it's basic discrimination, and it's comedy because it's so over the top. But at the same time : why are it always boys and men who are sent out to do the dangerous stuff? It's not like soldiers WANT to be in a war zone, and the politicians who start wars are never in the front lines.

And .. I hope I'm not too cynical, but perhaps the risk of women dying on the battlefield will make for some stronger anti war lobbying.

(but in a final note : exactly which battlefield? Nowadays wars are done by using drones and airstrikes. What was called the second Iraqi war was just the USA slaughtering up the place. It was so uneven you had more casualties from friendly fire than from the enemy)

A draft could be a lot of things. It could be actually seeing combat, or support roles like medic, or working drones like you said.

Then theres those artificial bionic suits and legs being developed now by he military. New tech besides drones.

Likely, If the female draft happens, I have a feeling they will probably put women in non combat support roles, which will push men that are in these roles out of them and instead put them in actual combat, when actual human to human combat happens.

 

[zfreeman]

What Happens If You Don’t Register for Selective Service

If you are required to register and you don’t, you will not be eligible for federal student aid, federal job training, or a federal job. You may be prosecuted and face a fine of up to $250,000 and/or jail time of up to five years. If you’re an immigrant to the U.S., you will not be eligible for citizenship.

If you never registered and are being denied federal student aid, job training, a federal job, or citizenship, you may be able to qualify if you didn't intentionally avoid registering. If you can show through a “preponderance of evidence” that your failure to register with Selective Service was not knowing or willful, your benefit may not be denied.


source: https://www.usa.gov/selective-service

 

[The Catboy]

Only the ones who organize to commit to the destruction of their own race.

Just going to clarify for everyone, this is a dog whistle from a known neo-Nazi member.

As for the topic, men's rights groups are just shit and unnecessary and this lawsuit further cements that notion. Instead of doing something good, like fighting to completely remove the draft, they instead decide to throw women under the bus.

 

[brickmii82]

Interesting. I suppose the discrepancy I'd find in this, is that women are generally less biologically/mentally geared towards aggression and violence than men. So forcing a random woman into a combat scenario seems like a dubious venture. That's not to say that all women aren't geared for it, however I'm inclined to believe that's the exception and not the rule. That's also true for men as well, as there are those that will never be able to absorb mental training and preparations for a physical confrontation, let alone a combat environment.

 

[SG854]

Just going to clarify for everyone, this is a dog whistle from a known neo-Nazi member.

As for the topic, men's rights groups are just shit and unnecessary and this lawsuit further cements that notion. Instead of doing something good, like fighting to completely remove the draft, they instead decide to throw women under the bus.

The lawsuit was that it is unconstitutional to draft males but not women. So this gives them a choice to either remove the draft altogether for males or draft women along with males. Likely it seems congress doesn’t want to get rid of the draft.

So the original lawsuit could be used as a way to remove draft all together. Perhaps if many women protest being drafted, they may have to remove the draft for males as a result for the sake of fairness.

 

[CORE]

So now you can have Equal Cannon Fodder on the Battlefield. Congratulations

 

[granville]

Women are vastly inferior to men. It's very dangerous to have the equality mindset.

Found the incel/mgtow lol!

 

[Kioku]

Just going to clarify for everyone, this is a dog whistle from a known neo-Nazi member.

As for the topic, men's rights groups are just shit and unnecessary and this lawsuit further cements that notion. Instead of doing something good, like fighting to completely remove the draft, they instead decide to throw women under the bus.

... And this new wave of women's rights advocates are saints right? Don't take sides. It's hypocritical.

 

[Viri]

Great, now can we pass a law that requires the people who vote for BS wars, now have to fight alongside the soldiers on the front lines, for the wars they voted for?

 

[The Catboy]

The lawsuit was that it is unconstitutional to draft males but not women. So this gives them a choice to either remove the draft altogether for males or draft women along with males. Likely it seems congress doesn’t want to get rid of the draft.

So the original lawsuit could be used as a way to remove draft all together. Perhaps if many women protest being drafted, they may have to remove the draft for males as a result for the sake of fairness.

The thing is, this lawsuit is just an example of narrowminded and short-term thinking. Trying to set up a lawsuit against the government is an attempt to get instant results, which of course there's going to be no way to remove the draft with instant results. They could have set up rallies, spread information showing that the draft is no longer necessary, etc. they could have taken time to spread awareness and made this more about removing an unnecessary system instead of trying to gain instant results.

... And this new wave of women's rights advocates are saints right? Don't take sides. It's hypocritical.

Expect these Men's Rights groups aren't actually doing anything helpful for men. They could invest time, money, resources, and awareness for research into men's mental health. This is an issue that isn't taken seriously and could be linked to why young men have such a high rate of suicide. There are countless real issues involving men that they could actually be dealing with instead of throwing women under the bus at any given opportunity.

 

[Fugelmir]

Found the incel/mgtow lol!

I have a girlfriend :o. But she's Japanese and knows her place

 

[SG854]

The thing is, this lawsuit is just an example of narrowminded and short-term thinking. Trying to set up a lawsuit against the government is an attempt to get instant results, which of course there's going to be no way to remove the draft with instant results. They could have set up rallies, spread information showing that the draft is no longer necessary, etc. they could have taken time to spread awareness and made this more about removing an unnecessary system instead of trying to gain instant results.

Expect these Men's Rights groups aren't actually doing anything helpful for men. They could invest time, money, resources, and awareness for research into men's mental health. This is an issue that isn't taken seriously and could be linked to why young men have such a high rate of suicide. There are countless real issues involving men that they could actually be dealing with instead of throwing women under the bus at any given opportunity.

They have protested the draft for decades. It’s why we even have a voluntary army in the first place.

The question is, is it feasible to remove the draft or is it necessary in a desperate time of need of soldiers, since not all wars are unavoidable. Some are, but when an enemy attacks you have no choice but to fight.

A good example is WW2. There were European countries that had a chance to stop Nazi Germany from growing in power, and actually had a chance of defeating them when they were weaker. But they preached that war is a choice and we don’t need to fight. Eventually Germany got stronger and they declared war on the pacifist countries, so they were forced into war any way, and by then war was not a choice.