Is grinding really necessary?

[Just Another Gamer]

I had this discussion with my friend a while ago regarding grinding in gaming and it became more of a debate since I have always found it to be an unnecessary feature added into games because the developers couldn't make the game more interesting and extending the playtime so they made it so you have to do hours upon hours of grinding. later on he argued that grinding is a "challenge" and I really questioned that because there is no real challenge in there unless you count how long until you're so bored you'll just give up and play something fun.

I find it even more weird because I get condoned for not grinding for hours and hours in any game and using codes like a x2 EXP mod to lessen the grind time and still be able to face the boss and have a real challenging battle since I usually just cheat until i'm the same level as the boss i'm going up against and then just move on in the story. I'm curious as to why people hold such a boring and unnecessary mechanic to such high regards when many games just work better if you get 3 or 4 battles to level up to the same level as the boss in the area and still have a challenging battle while not needing to waste hours and hours just to get the same result.

 

[Celice]

I don't necessarily dislike grinding for grinding sake, as if the gameplay is mindlessly fun enough, I'll enjoy it. But what I'd rather have is grinding in the sense that every battle has a sense of difficulty to it, and that once you finally overcome the local area's difficulty, you start to feel more at ease--until you progress to the next area and immediately lose your confidence.

It's about requiring the player to properly engage every battle, rather than just breeze through on auto-pilot. I've found several difficulty hacks, and even the Final Fantasy IV DS, to have good balances of grinding against difficulty.

But for games which have no feeling of accomplishment, whose battles are neither engaging nor rewarding, it's just a bothersome feature.

 

[nryn99]

I agree with Celice, I'm really fine with grinding because of korean MMO, but sometimes I hate it whenever it becomes to repetitive.
Grinding would be fun with friends though, that's why most MMOs are fine. But it does get boring after some time, but just go PvP and it's all fine.

 

[ShadowFyre]

Grinding is exactly why I've been straying away from the RPG genre for a while. Grinding, and random battles. If a game has a great battle system like The World Ends with You, or Dissidia, then I'll be more than happy to grind. Even the Pokemon series has been getting better w/ grinding, as its new exp system relies more on battling pokemon your level, rather than pokemon 10 lvls below you to beat a gym leader.

 

[Hells Malice]

MMORPGs aside, most games don't require grinding.
Grinding is typically there to make up for a lack of skill, and so you close the gap by increasing your advantage.
There are some times when you might have to grind a little bit here and there, but most games you can get through without hardcore grinding. I know I avoid grinding in order to keep the challenge up in a game.

I have to say the only MMORPG I don't terribly mind the grind, was Tera. Once you got higher in level, grinding was just...fun. Everything kicked your ass if you didn't fight it properly. At least as a slayer. If you did it properly, could fight non-stop. But screw up once and I was losing massive chunks of my HP bar. If I screwed up fighting two monsters...I typically died instantly. So I didn't even consider it a grind, it was just fun.

 

[LockeCole_101629]

I think people are so misleading about grinding because most korean developers abuse it to get more money from it.
Most RPG games requires grind because of the gameplay is totally different with platformers/action games
altough it's the same basic things.

without grind, RPG games can be completed in less than 10hours or less.
most people play games is to finish it, that's the basic goal of playing games. (other than to have fun)

in MMO this is the worst nightmare for publisher specially if those games are free to play.
they won't make single pennies if that's going to happen.

in classic MMORPG since there's not much variations of gameplay, publisher ask developers to prolong the "grinding" part to extend total hours of gameplay.
since there are not much game in the market, most players accept it the way it is.

so they start selling items such as double exp gain and similar things like that to make income.
so...apparently this also isn't really enough.

if you play mmorpg long enough you'll understand what I meant. For example there's always certain group/people who always manages to get max level in short time.
I'm not surprised, most MMO are filled with asians, and I know they are absolutely hardcore for grinding.

so they start expanding the "grind" part, by start lowering drop rate for items
and they add another "double drop rate" items to be sold.
with this 2 elements added on "premium" section isn't really ruin the balance of the game.

and fast forward to current MMO state, it's become ridiculous to play F2P games, publisher starts filling those "premium" sections with items that so much better than regular items, chance to get this or that, better stat costume, enhanced items starting from head to toe, even pets and mounts.

and even worse since "PVP" added, people start looking for more power, unfortunately the only way to get it is to spend your real money.

now days, grinding is the last part you have to worried in Free MMO, this kind of behavior also explain why so much publisher specially MMORPG publisher are going bankrupt or merge or shutdown or whatever you want to say it for closing down. Even if some is still survive most free MMORPG are lacking of active players.

TLR

Grinding is part of the game. You took this part away I don't think you will enjoy the game.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

Grinding is a way bad developers inflate their game time because they're too lazy to write better stories, make new content, or make better bosses that aren't reliant on levels.

 

[Gabbynaruto]

I don't really mind grinding, as long as it doesn't make the game boring as heck. I mean, in Dragon Nest, I will go and play dungeon after dungeon for hours and hours, even if I actually repeat dungeons, because the gameplay is mindlessly fun and I want to see what's next in the story, so I don't really care about repetitiveness. On the other hand, if I have to grind like 1000 monsters to level up in a game where the gameplay is all just point, click, wait for your character to win, repeat (Flyff), I'll quit the game instantly and forever. If devs make the gameplay mindlessly fun, who on earth cares that you need to grind 10 hours to level up from level 1 to level 2? Not me, that's for sure. And, yes, this doesn't apply only on MMORPGs, but on any RPGs. TWEWY, Dark Souls, Dragon Quest, Megami Tensei, all they need is great gameplay to cover the fact taht you are actually repeating stuff over and over, and everything is good.

 

[XDel]

Growing up playing RPG's in the early early 80's and then later into the "kid friendly" Zelda/Final Fantasy Generation, I am accustomed to grinding and for me, I love it...

...well sorta.

Back in the day, I had a lot more time on my hands and a lot less to worry about, so grinding did not take away from my otherwise important matters of the day, and it filled me with a sense of accomplishment, like I really earned the Level my character was at and this and that, as opposed to more modern game offerings where they pretty much draw you a line as to where you need to go next, or in some cases, do not require you to hang out an fight for a couple hours before you can progress further.

Such modern game play leaves me feeling empty, like I did not earn anything, and like there was no challenge. Likewise, I do not like how modern games have endless tutorials that seem to extend a good two hours into game play, if not all the way through the game. It makes me feel like they are trying to market video games to lazy retarded children with no video game skills, let alone problem solving skills what so ever.

On the other hand, now being older, I do appreciate when the grinding is kept down to a minimum. I.E. requiring the player to grind some yes, but maybe not to the extent at which we were required to do it when we were younger, and RPG's actually resembled the complexity of a Pen and Paper D&D campaign. I think in RPG's gamer's should be required to grind to some extend, otherwise you might just as well set them up on youtube and they can just watch a "Long Play" video of what ever mentioned RPG's and just sit back and enjoy the show as someone else walks through the game for them, because really, without grinding, that's about all an RPG is reduced to, a theme park ride where there really is no challenge and nothing has to be earned.

 

[Depravo]

Grinding is good as long as the the game rewards your time appropriately.

 

[Gahars]

Forcing players to grind for large stretches of time just to progress is bullshit. It's needless, boring filler. It punishes the player for the developer's inability to properly pace their game.

 

[Rydian]

Grinding is a way bad developers inflate their game time because they're too lazy to write better stories, make new content, or make better bosses that aren't reliant on levels.

Also putting in a really slow walk speed isn't acceptable in order to double your claim of how long the game is anymore.

 

[cearp]

well, from this, what games do you 'need' to grind for?

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

Also putting in a really slow walk speed isn't acceptable in order to double your claim of how long the game is anymore.

Oh god I have this problem in most of the RPGs I play. If I ever cheat in an RPG, it's usually to increase walking speed.

 

[Veho]

well, from this, what games do you 'need' to grind for?

Wii Fit.

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

well, from this, what games do you 'need' to grind for?

Just Dance 3.

 

[porkiewpyne]

In a club full of hot chicks? HELL YEAH! What are you on about?
In fact it should be compulsory.

 

[Just Another Gamer]

I think people are so misleading about grinding because most korean developers abuse it to get more money from it.
Most RPG games requires grind because of the gameplay is totally different with platformers/action games
altough it's the same basic things.

without grind, RPG games can be completed in less than 10hours or less.
most people play games is to finish it, that's the basic goal of playing games. (other than to have fun)

But is that really a problem?

I mean if a game has such a great story and challenge then people would gladly replay it even if the playtime isn't that long. I mean name any RPG and i'm sure that if I had the chance to play it with EXP or level mod to level myself to the same level as the area boss with no random encounters it would be fantastic since it is still challenging and enjoyable. I play through all games that needs grinding in the same method and I seem to enjoy the game more and is now more inclined to replay it.

Such modern game play leaves me feeling empty, like I did not earn anything, and like there was no challenge. Likewise, I do not like how modern games have endless tutorials that seem to extend a good two hours into game play, if not all the way through the game. It makes me feel like they are trying to market video games to lazy retarded children with no video game skills, let alone problem solving skills what so ever.

On the other hand, now being older, I do appreciate when the grinding is kept down to a minimum. I.E. requiring the player to grind some yes, but maybe not to the extent at which we were required to do it when we were younger, and RPG's actually resembled the complexity of a Pen and Paper D&D campaign. I think in RPG's gamer's should be required to grind to some extend, otherwise you might just as well set them up on youtube and they can just watch a "Long Play" video of what ever mentioned RPG's and just sit back and enjoy the show as someone else walks through the game for them, because really, without grinding, that's about all an RPG is reduced to, a theme park ride where there really is no challenge and nothing has to be earned.

The problem is that now grinding is just used to extend the game's playtime from probably 10 hours to 50 because like Guild said the devs were to lazy to make a game that has a good decent game that can engage you enough to be challenging and good. I mean I really did try playing through Persona 3 Portable without cheating and guess what, I utterly hate it since it was so monotonousness and boring and after using only max money and x2 EXP the game suddenly moved quicker and is still challenging since I still had to put effort into beating the bosses which after beating actually gave a sense of accomplishment rather than the same old auto-piloted random battles which is rather boring which is why I usually don't play any of these games unless I can remove at least half of the grinding so I can focus on the important parts of the game which is the boss battles, story and characters.

 

[XDel]

But is that really a problem?

I mean if a game has such a great story and challenge then people would gladly replay it even if the playtime isn't that long. I mean name any RPG and i'm sure that if I had the chance to play it with EXP or level mod to level myself to the same level as the area boss with no random encounters it would be fantastic since it is still challenging and enjoyable. I play through all games that needs grinding in the same method and I seem to enjoy the game more and is now more inclined to replay it.


The problem is that now grinding is just used to extend the game's playtime from probably 10 hours to 50 because like Guild said the devs were to lazy to make a game that has a good decent game that can engage you enough to be challenging and good. I mean I really did try playing through Persona 3 Portable without cheating and guess what, I utterly hate it since it was so monotonousness and boring and after using only max money and x2 EXP the game suddenly moved quicker and is still challenging since I still had to put effort into beating the bosses which after beating actually gave a sense of accomplishment rather than the same old auto-piloted random battles which is rather boring which is why I usually don't play any of these games unless I can remove at least half of the grinding so I can focus on the important parts of the game which is the boss battles, story and characters.

I catch your drift. That is how I felt about the original Final Fantasy II. It seemed to consist of endless hours of grinding, connected with a half ass story that seemed to be directly ripped off from Star Wars except with a more mid-evil theme.
I've not touched many of the modern RPG's, of the ones I have there has been hardly any grinding and really low game play time, so if they are still creating games with lots of grinding and the game can carry on for a good 30 plus hours (as a good RPG should), then I would hope that most of that time is dedicated to story and character development, and actually doing things, keeping the grinding down the a comfortable minimum. Enough to make the player feel like he earned and accomplished something, but not without totally spoiling all the fun and adventure.

 

[nryn99]

so they start expanding the "grind" part, by start lowering drop rate for items
and they add another "double drop rate" items to be sold.
with this 2 elements added on "premium" section isn't really ruin the balance of the game.

The reason why I quit RF Online Ph.
- They removed item drops from monsters. As in zero chances of getting item loots from normal monsters only from bosses.
- Added a limit to mining upgrade resources.
- They provided Weapon, Armor and Upgrader* bundles with Cash Shop items.
- Final boss with current patch drops max level armors, but needs 40+ players to kill with really, really good pvp items. At least 3 tankers who have Instant revive pots(from cash shop).

*upgraders can upgrade your item to +4-6/5-6/6-7. stable has a higher chance of getting the lower end of the upgrade but your item won't break, unstable has a higher chance to get the high end but your weapon/armor might break if upgrade fails, the upgrader won't.

It's become too much pay-to-win(even against monsters) you can't even farm at mid levels without using RMT to buy equipment. Even if you do farm, a week's farm would only result in pieces of the same mid level armors you are wearing.
high level armors can't be bought with in-game currency.
Premium Service gives you 5x/8x/10x exp depends if it's a normal day or special event. Did I mention exp jades bought from the cash shop which increases you exp by 50% if i recall it correctly. didn't bother learning if it stacks or a multiplier.
oh and the regular special pots.

SO MUCH MONEY MILKED.