Hacking Debate - Grabbing files from Nintendo's servers illegal?

[BlueStar]

Is it illegal to take extra McDonalds straws if you're not going to use them in a McDonalds drink?

 

[JoostinOnline]

Is it illegal to take extra McDonalds straws if you're not going to use them in a McDonalds drink?

That argument is even more flawed than the "keys in the car" one.

 

[BlueStar]

In what way? They're provided free to their customers (you) as a service to aid your use of a product you've bought, they're unsecured and it's easy to take additional ones to use for things other than their intended purpose, something the company don't seem to worry themselves about and nobody in their right mind would consider the legal ramifications of.

 

[JoostinOnline]

They aren't under copyright (or is the term "copyrighted"? Idk, whatever, you know what I mean), there is no EULA, they aren't code, they aren't downloads, etc.

 

[BlueStar]

I'm certain the design of McDonalds straws is copyrighted. If you used them in your own restaurant (or even ones of a very similar design) I'm sure you'd face legal action.

 

[JoostinOnline]

I'm certain the design of McDonalds straws is copyrighted. If you used them in your own restaurant (or even ones of a very similar design) I'm sure you'd face legal action.

Even if that's true (and I don't think it is since we bought a bunch of straws at Walmart that look exactly like McDonald's ones), that doesn't mean the situation is the same.

 

[tueidj]

The proper analogy to fit this situation wouldn't be using the straws in your own restaurant, but rather telling your customers you don't provide straws and they should get them from McDonald's if they want one.

 

[obcd]

I really don't see the point of this discussion.
First of all, It's based upon the thinking of people with no law experience at all.
If Ninty would start a lawsuit against people downloading stuff from nus, they would likely win it in most countries, as they would have more, better and more expensive lawyers.
Besides that, laws are different in every country. For instance, some countries block access to the pirate bay because it shows links to torrents that point to material that shouldn't be distributed over the net. Why don't they block google? If I google for "windows + activation code" it will also give me links to sites containing stuff that is not allowed.
Apple has a lawsuit running against Samsung because their Tablet works very similar to the Apple tablet. Are we lucky no computer firm ever started a law suit for every other firm that used a keyboard as input device. We would probably still be punching cards if that would have happened. Guess what, the lawsuit worked. The sale of the Samsung tablet was forbidden in some countries increasing the apple tablet sales.
The situation with the nus downloads is more difficult. Even if they win the lawsuit, how will they make money from it?
There isn't much gain for them to start a lawsuit I guess.

My point is, stop wasting time on this useless discussion, and start playing games on your wii.
If you don't have an interesting game, download the devkit and start to learn programming on the wii.
If you don't I might start a lawsuit against everybody posting here for wasting my time.
Just joking, it would be an even bigger waste of time...

 

[tueidj]

If you think a discussion is pointless don't post in the thread. Nobody is wasting your time except yourself.

 

[obcd]

You just know it's pointless after you read it. Evil has already happened at that moment.
If you don't think it's pointless, just tell us, what's the point of it? (Please keep it short.)

 

[VashTS]

ill settle this argument. everything on the net is fair use. lol.

 

[pwsincd]

You can clearly see the wii has been well and truly hacked , theres nothing to do now but question wether it is right or wrong lmao..

 

[WB3000]

One of the reasons I wrote NUSD was to reduce the hosting of Nintendo's firmware and IOS haplessly across the internet. I'm sure they realize that there is nothing that can be done to stop the distribution of these files, so why not have them come from their servers as opposed to sketchy hosting sites? It reduces the likelyhood of corrupt or invalid files circulating that could somehow wind up bricking a Wii which they would have to fix.

Grey area or not, the way NUS works cannot be fundamentally changed with millions of Wiis relying on it; the HTTP NUS links are well known and predicable.

 

[WiiUBricker]

It is. The "other systems" are IOS. A USB Loader operates with an IOS (cIOS) to provide backup functionality. SNEEK doesn't work without IOS.

That is not a separate system. It's like saying "Hey I'm allowed to distribute copies of windows because windows needs it to communicate with windows." "Backup functionality" also does not fall under interoperability because it isn't necessary for the system to operate.

The interoperability clause refers to things like usb device firmware, when a driver exists for one platform but not another. It does not cover modifying that firmware and running it in the original intended environment.

First off, what does redistribution of Windows have anything to do with this matter? It's illegal to redistribute Windows as well as redistributing IOS files. That's not important here. We were talking about the german clause which permits you to grab files from Nintendo's servers to make an interoperability like a USB loader, which you can use to play your legit obtained games. Interoperability doesn't necessarily mean seperate hardware systems, but software systems. As you know unlike other game platforms the Wii uses many IOS to operate. But the Wii also can operate for example without IOS30 or IOS 40 or IOSX etc. IOS are basically seperate systems. Making a USB loader or SNEEK that use IOS to operate means making an interoperability.

Either way, even without this clause it's still not illegal to download files from NUS, since Nintendo's EULA is completly invalid as explained a few posts back. Not sure if it's different in the US, though.

 

[tueidj]

You're not describing interoperability, you're describing circumvention of a restriction. IOS and games are all part of the same system; they are dependent on each other, they are shipped together and they run on the same hardware at the same time.
"Interoperability" mean "to work together". USB loaders and SNEEK are not designed to work with the existing IOS software, they are designed to replace (or communicate with replaced) parts of it. They are not independently created, they do not perform a function that was not already available (execution of games) and they do not restrict their usage of copyright IOS components to only the parts required for the claimed interoperability.

 

[Etheboss]

I think the best way to determen this is to ask Nintendo

 

[Lucif3r]

I think the best way to determen this is to ask Nintendo

I already know their response: #care

 

[WiiUBricker]

You're not describing interoperability, you're describing circumvention of a restriction. IOS and games are all part of the same system; they are dependent on each other, they are shipped together and they run on the same hardware at the same time.
"Interoperability" mean "to work together". USB loaders and SNEEK are not designed to work with the existing IOS software, they are designed to replace (or communicate with replaced) parts of it. They are not independently created, they do not perform a function that was not already available (execution of games) and they do not restrict their usage of copyright IOS components to only the parts required for the claimed interoperability.

IOS are certainly not dependent on each other. You can delete a bunch of IOS files without breaking the system. Also they are not necessarily shipped together. I purchased my Wii 2006 and at that point of time there were no IOS60, IOS70, IOS80 etc. Those IOS have been provided by Nintendo for an optional update.

Of course USB loaders don't work with original IOS, but you are permitted to reverse-engineer and modify system software to achieve an interoperability, not only grabbing files from NUS and use them blank. Patched IOS are also seperate software systems.

 

[lexarvn]

How would it be illegal to download files from a publicly accessible server that has no security measure on it? Nintendo doesn't even try to prevent people from downloading from nus without a wii. If you know anything about web programming, it's easy to block web browsers in general from accessing your server just by requiring a specific User Agent. It also would have been easy for them to just use a different port or protocol to retrive files from nus, but of course couldn't do that after launch.

I would say that it is certainly unethical. But no hacking of any sort is required to download the files from nus, so I don't see how it could be illegal to download from it.

 

[Lucif3r]

I purchased my Wii 2006 and at that point of time there were no IOS60, IOS70, IOS80 etc. Those IOS have been provided by Nintendo for an optional update.

That is just a load of bull. If your Wii isnt modded you have to update before most games even boots. if you dont - they wont boot.